samesame68, This sounds familiar to my abuser in many ways. The rages, the aggression, the threats.... even the hand clapping. Yes, I understand. My abuser doesn't have an alcohol or drug problem, but I do believe he is probably a sociopath as well as a narcissist.

Being able to step back and reflect on their abuse does help, right? I've been doing a lot of remembering and recalling certain situations recently. I can't believe I've stayed so long with my abuser. With all the mind games and manipulations over the years, I would blame myself for things he would do that were so so so wrong. I'd think that if I were better, more attractive, more loving, etc that he wouldn't go off the deep end so much. Basically, he had convinced me his horrid behavior was my fault. He'd even make covert remarks that would mess with my head making me believe that lie.

It was like he was an emotional vampire draining me of my energy. Since finding DS and the awesome people and groups here, I've begun healing. And seeing the truth for what it really is. samesame, I hope you continue healing and growing. Wishing you continued truth and peace. :)

'Being able to step back and reflect on their abuse does help, right?', great question spiritsprout, I've been back and forth on that one. I go through periods when remembering seems to be just too harsh, when it feels like remembering just draws me back into the chaos and confusion and makes me feel very vulnerable, feeling like I may have missed something that I'll find if I go back to him, it can truly scare the crap out of me.
Those are the times when I try and check in to this group and search frantically for something that can help, something to relate to, and sometimes I can't even read the posts because I just need to keep it away from me.
At other times (like now) I seem to have emotional distance, I don't even know why? it just happens in bursts, a moment of clarity and freedom after walking through mud and feeling weighed down by the mess that has now been pushed into my consciousness in such a brutal way, without reason or rationale. Maybe that's how trauma recovery works? I'm not sure, but the freedom does seem to come in little bursts when I least expect them. In any case I'm grateful for the reprieve.
I also wonder about the vampire metaphor. It's definitely appropriate for most of the standard narcissistic behaviour, the stuff that I think had a sociopathic consciousness. Like 'gaslighting' and their other forms of manipulation that seem to be very consciously employed to run us down and make us weary. However, the more bizarre behaviours perplex me a little. Are they out of the N's control? or are they a last ditch effort, a final play of desperation. I thought that maybe they also could be designed by the N as a way to suck high energy by causing major distress after having wound their victims down through their everyday putdowns and indifference. A way to 'kickstart' the energy in the relationship.
After all, a traumatic breakup may be the perfect catapult to throw the N into their next waiting source of supply, while creating the bar of trauma that you would need to jump over in order to return to them, therefore proving your love.
I guess the idea that these screwy behaviours also may be completely thought out and conscious just scares and creeps the shit out of me.
Thanks for your well wishes, truth and peace are returning with time.

I remember odd things that he would accuse me of. At the time I questioned myself. Thinking, "What did I do that caused him to think I would even do that." Now I know that it was his way of keeping me scared and insecure. Keeping me in a place where I would be too afraid to leave because he could make up these stories and tell them to other people in order to "win" if I divorced him.

These a little examples of how he would do that. Nothing so severe, but certainly threats that he easily could make me out to be the 'bad guy' if he so chose to. My NH did not use drugs or alcohol and I think that was a saving grace for me as I know it would have been much worse.

Once, early into our marriage, I was cooking spaghetti and spilled on the stove. I used a kitchen cleaner and sprayed it on the stove next to the pot of sauce in order to clean up the mess. He went into this weird rage about how I was trying to poison him and how he finally caught me in what I was doing. ( I was dumb founded)

Another time we got into a huge fight and he told me that he had a log where he had been writing down every thing that I had done wrong to him. That if I even dared to leave then he would reveal this book to everyone we knew and they would all see what a bad person I really am.

Once when we were in our camper up on the bed. We were lying side by side on our backs. We were talking and I was frustrated so I swung my arm over and it landed on his chest, From then on when we would fight he would say "remember you hit me", "remember you abused me" , "you hit me, nothing I can say to you would compare to how you hurt me when you hit me".

Later on into our marriage he became sick on a trip down to see his brother's family. He had a rash and swollen hands and felt really ill. He had his brother take him to the ER and insisted I stay back with the kids and not go. I later found out that he told the ER doctor that he thought he had been poisoned by me. It turned out that he was diagnosed with hand, foot and mouth disease. A virus that had been going around our son's class room.

There are so many more. These are the examples that stick out to me.

Thanks momand3boys, much of what you express is familiar. I too have been accused of poisoning the N, and apart from the shock of how absurd it was, it also shocked me because at the moment he accused me of this, I thought, well I really would like to at this moment. This ofcourse at the time sent me spiralling into a paranoid state, thinking that he may possibly feel how emotionally hostile I was beginning to feel for him. I know know that he actually knows he's a monster, and thinks that many people may attempt to hurt him, because he would like to hurt himself if he had the courage to do so.
But back on track, I just found a good article that may explain that the delusional behaviour of Ns is usually separate to psychosis. In that they are a conscious attempt to gain a state of psychosis for the sake of energy. Ns do not get lost in psychosis, they change script depending on the reaction, because they are invested in keeping a relationship with reality in order to suck more supply. More evidence of their creepy manipulation. God I wished that my N had a mental health disorder that altered their perception of right and wrong, just so I could feel less disgust for them.
Anyhow, here's the link.http://narcissismandpersonalitydisorders246.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/pathological-narcissism-psychosis-and-delusions/

Good to have you contribute. So glad you have and are self-reflecting in a positive manner. Doing so is one of the best ways to cleanse your mind and soul of the abuse and its aftermath. Keep progressing forward. Hugs.

Things they do. I can add. I am not sure how many women who are aging need reassurance as to how they look, but several times a day (at least morning, evening, then in bed) she will ask the same things over and over and ask for reasons why. Do you think I am still sexy? What makes me sexy? Do you still love me? Do you still like having sex with me? Do I still turn you on? Honestly, over and over. I can't recall a day being skipped where she did not ask this. Does she need reinforcement? Is this lack of self esteem? Does she forget she as already asked this earlier in the day? Or is this just normal narc behavior that they need to be told over and over how wonderful they are?

So W is convinced I would never leave her, that I have to have her, and that her income is so important to me (although I have my own company and could live on beans and rice). After DDay 6 years ago I almost left. Then 2 years ago I made plans to leave. Something always kept me from pulling the trigger. One evening in bed, after we were going through another rough patch, she calmly said "I think we should separate, I don't think this is going to work." I calmly said "I agree with you. I just would like for our separation and divorce to be amicable and hopefully would not involve attorneys. I just want for each of us what is fair and that is all." silence. W - "Really? How long have you felt this way?' me - "Really for some time now. I know you have not been happy, and when you told me that your texts and communications with other "friends" were your business, and private, and not mine, and that THIS IS THE WAY IT WILL BE, well, I just decided then that this really was not going to work. So, honey, I agree with you. Let's just be civil while we do this. I can have my stuff packed up and out by this weekend." holy crap, she hit the panic button. she started crying. she wanted us to work this out. blah blah blah. I guess she forgot that she had said moments before that she thought we should separate.

Is this normal behavior too? I am an easy going guy, but when I feel fucked I can fuck back, and if hurt I can hurt back. People do not expect this from me, the nice easy going dormat Don. I think she forgot as well.

Since that evening around 6 months ago, she has never hinted at this threat again.

Another thing, she will ask how my day was, then check out, looking on her phone, or whatever. It is just a courtesy comment. Her mom is this way. We took her mom out to dinner. I decided to get into the conversation and started one. I noticed her mom looking away. I stopped talking and just stared at her mom. W finally got her moms attention and said "Don is telling a story". I intervened and said "Georgia, where were you just then?" she said she was playing a bridge hand in her head. okay, if that did not show me how unimportant I was not else would. Yes, like mother like daughter. It was just a solid reminder. But W does not think she does this herself. She is just oblivious to having any behaviors that are negative.

Okay. Well, I like this thread and will add behaviors as I think of them. Others please keep adding yours. It helps me remember that I am not alone and that basically my wife is just crazy.

My NH seems to need a lot of confirmation that he's good with his career. It's the one thing he's done decently in our marriage, and I'm an honest type. So, I will compliment him when he does something good regarding his job. I think he knows he does well, he just likes to hear other people stroke his ego.

Don, you mentioned your W doesn't think you would ever actually leave her, and my NH probably thinks the same about me. If he knew how much I look forward to the day I can pack his things and move him out, his head would spin. But I also believe he's seen a big difference in my attitude and behavior toward him - the last year especially. These narcs are smart characters, and I think he knows he doesn't have power over me anymore. He can't control me and my emotions. When he's home and tries to get under my skin, tries to manipulate me, I do my best to never let my emotions show. I'm completely indifferent to him, which confuses the heck out of him.

NH used to badmouth his exwife trying to make me mad at her, but since I don't respond in any way, I've noticed he doesn't bring her up in conversations anymore. Looking back, I can see many many times he would do little things to get me angry or even annoyed. I truly believe he would enjoy making me feel upset. Since I don't take the bait now, he doesn't even try anymore. I hate the narcs sick twisted mind games. >:-/

I left a tissue on the sofa once and he went into a rage about how I would 'infect' him leaving my germs around and there were many times when he would rage over things that were just so unimportant. Yes I think the projection thing is very much a narcissist trait, I am a 'lying cheating tramp' 'a vile slag' apparently though I am thinking more and more it was him who cheated. No matter now, he is 'off the wall' and thankfully I don't have to deal with it any more.

Also, never ever satisfied with anything. Our house is not good enough (it is great), her body needs work (it doesn't), she is either too busy at work or not busy enough, and blah blah blah. This constantly makes me feel like I am include in what is not good enough in her life. She cooks a perfect meal but she will mention how flawed it is (either to invite positive comments or to say she is better then what we see here). It is exhausting. I keep getting back to that same word, exhausting.

Uhmmm....I wonder about all of these accusations being a 180? I've never thought of being poisoned so what makes these people go to that train of thought?

I am so glad to be done with the crazy making. And I am so done justifying to myself peoples' behaviours. Because when a N in my life does something weird or "different" I am the one telling myself why that behavior was okay by way of metal flips and thought gymnastics. So tiring....so mentally exhausting.

Yeah, I would warn anyone whose N is worrying about being poisoned or harmed in any other way, that this may be because they are thinking of doing it to you. I believe I could have been poisoned twice by my N and P then-husband in the months leading up to the divorce. They say that the months before and just after leaving are the most dangerous for abuse victims. I had mentally divorced him, though not actually filed. Worse, I was only about 2-3 months away from actually divorcing him when the first episode hit. I think maybe he could tell I was pulling away and might go. My ability to get divorced got delayed (by him) and the second episode happened then. I was not able to prove any of it, but nothing like that has happened before or since.

As for psychosis, there are a couple of times when my (now) ex seemed almost psychotic for brief periods. I believe he is NPD, Psychopath (P), and Borderline PD (BPD). There is a dose of paranoia in there too that comes up sometimes. Sometimes he is so divorced from reality that he seems psychotic. I do not remember the context of those episodes, but they scared me because they showed me how crazy he really is. I think maybe they were revising history to the max, so much so that it denied reality. The cognitive dissonance was too high even for him to lie his way out of it, so he just stopped making any rational sense while panicking and this looked a lot like being pushed into psychosis.

Samesame, is it possible that your N either was also paranoid, possibly also with Paranoid PD (PPD), or paranoid schizophrenic? It is possible to have schizophrenia overlaying narcissism. I have read that when the overt mental illness is treated, it reveals the underlying personality disorder. Just a thought. Your N's behavior sounds strange to me and not like the many cases of narcissism I have heard about. They do fly into rages, they do try to keep you off-balance, they do try to make you paranoid and like they can know what you are up to, and they do things to constantly distract you; but the rest of it sounds a bit more actively bizarre.

Another one, she will talk to me as she is walking away or with a lot if noise, then acts miffed that I can't hear her. My adult children think this is really funny.

I will ask where she want to go to dinner. She will tell me to pick this time (Luke she is tired of always making decisions). Then one by one each of choices are bad ones. But I know it before it happens. She is just low on her narc fuel when this happens and she needs to fill up her fuel tank.

escape, how scary to even think you might have been poisoned. Wow, just terrifying. You've got me to thinking about all the personality disorders and how they overlap each other with different people. I'd love to take a psychology course and learn more. It's all so bizarre and yet intriguing to me now.

Don, your wife sounds like a handful. I admire your patience. At least your children are able to look at the whole sitution with humor, that's a big plus. I don't think I could handle being around my NH every day. He's not as difficult as your W, but I think he's more deceptive. He's a serial cheater no doubt.

So W had asked me where I wanted to go on our vacation. I said Italy. Done. Going in October. Saturday night on our date night she told me she wants us to go to Talum in Mexico. She wants me to experience the vacation that she had with our daughter.

Okay, so I really don't care. In fact, Talum will be a hell of a lot cheaper. But this is like when she says I never decide on dinner out places. Not only did I pick Italy, but it was where she wanted to go to.

Just more of the same, both on very small and very large scales.