I'd say there's definitely been a '360', they've turned all the way around and are doing exactly what they've always been doing. So they're joined at the hip, a very convenient place for a narc to have their source. And I'm never really sure who ever knows the true extent of the abuse that inhabits these relationships we've all experienced?
I have a few close friends, and my ex narcs family that know exactly what he's like, other then that he looks socially charming, and his 'off' behaviour translates at the most as a 'fun hooligan' Enjoyed by his transient mates.
We know the partner's 'job' is to be 'functional', a kind of 'Stepford wife', a trophy to shore up the ever lacking integrity of the narc. That's the very role that has sent many of us into a very crazy place.
I still have days when I am useless for anything because I'm busy having internal dialogue with myself, arguing with myself and reminding myself of the reasons it is just not sustainable to go back to him. The reasons not to go back are immense, the list is so long that I haven't even managed to write them all down, but they're all there, and not one person knows the full story except me and the narc. There was just no way that I felt comfortable monopolising anyones time to go through all of it, apart from the length, the absurdity and wretchedness of it all just seems like a fallacy. I would have previously found it hard to believe from another person.
i have no contact or information about my ex narc, and I still am occasionally temporarily consumed, it's a complete burden.
I don't know how much you know of their history? and sure some people may change. However, if they were an asshole before you met them, and then managed to be nice enough to convince you to be with them, then became an asshole within your relationship, they're most probably just doing it again.
I do understand the concern though. My ex narcs previous partner warned me to 'take time out' early on in our relationship. They explained to me in a very simple way, trying not to look like a gossip, that there were some problems with the narc. I didn't listen, and when ever we were around that person, I made it my business to make sure our relationship looked perfect! And it never was, ever! it was always toxic, manifested and hidden, or waiting anxiously on eggshells.
I can only assume that when I learn or see my ex in another relationship I'll have a morbid interest, waiting to see the signs of his sadism transferred, and being paranoid if I can't see any, because it may send me spinning back into that place of insecurity that the narc set up for me, telling me that I would never win, be good enough, or have the strength to make a relationship work.
They're all about mind games and power. And as obvious as we think things might be (I though I'd declared and outed his ass truly) many people wish to ignore, stay in denial, and much of the abuse is in completely private quarters. But the walls will always eventually crack.
I feel for you, I hope I'm in a secure place when I eventually see ex narc playing happy with another victim that's willing to keep his secret shame, and play the 'perfect couple' act.

Samesame68,
"I'll have a morbid interest, waiting to see the signs of his sadism transferred, and being paranoid if I can't see any, because it may send me spinning back into that place of insecurity that the narc set up for me..."

This is totally where I am right now. Seeing what I have seen (mostly from her point of view), it's hard to quell those thoughts and not ask why I was so "lucky." What about me brought out the worst in him. Maybe because I early into things I was like a horse that didn't want to be ridden. I bucked. He knew I wasn't 100% submissive. So even later when I was running around doing his bidding and there at his convenience he already knew I wasn't good long term supply and treated me accordingly. He seems more plugged in now - where with me he was definitely checked out. The "couple" part of us fell apart after 4 mos. That's when I bucked. But even before that I knew he had issues - didn't attribute to NPD. It was the following year and a half of yo-yo and "friendship" that the wheels really came off the wagon. The "friendship" was very one-sided and I said so. Of course he said I was crazy and that I was his best friend. Maybe she's better at pretending than I am. Trust me there was a time when I so wanted to believe I had found someone special but I couldn't ignore the glaring truth. Especially when the truth came from his mouth. He said he wanted me to be dependent on him, that he needed someone submissive, that he didn't want someone who was too successful. Now I think he said these things to me because I am the exact opposite of all of those things. He wanted me to feel insecure about being independent, strong-minded and successful. A few months ago we had a conversation (before he asked for more money) and he said his NS was pissing him off because she was already complaining about doing his laundry! Then he said his NS works but didn't go to college and that he told her that if she didn't want to "make something of herself" they wouldn't be together. So I was too successful and she is not successful enough. I thought that was pretty judgmental. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire unless leaving a path of destruction (even before me) is "making something," then he's an over-achiever.

I know that if I asked him to make a list of 20 things he did for me out of gratitude or just because he liked me as a person - he couldn't come up with anything. Wow, I hate that I am so plagued by this. I've ended relationships before, people have moved one, found others, and I was always happy for them - or maybe initially it hurt but was soon forgotten. THIS feels so different. This feels like someone broke into you house, stole everything you own and then moved in next door and invited you over for a bbq and they are showing you around and showing off all their great stuff that they stole from you and you are standing there stunned thinking "Are you kidding me? How can you look me in the eye and pretend this is your stuff? How can you have no remorse for stealing from me?"

The NS will NEVER be what the narcissist wants, that's what I truly believe now. In a relationship the NS Jaime a new car, every day her value decreases because she is there available, all the time. Whatever the narc has he doesn't want, when I was with my ex I constantly felt threatened by other women and men, any stranger could offer him more attention than me because I was just secondary supply.

I totally know where you are coming from when it comes to the narc, I think they have an idea how you are useful when the dating starts. My function was to prove to everyone that he wasn't the nasty person everyone thought he was (he had a reputation for leaving women in a mess) because I was nice and good. Over time I didn't fulfil my function, I argued and bucked against him. My function was then to take abuse whilst everyone else saw Mr happy .

I really think the new relationship your ex has will be dysfunctional, he or she will be just great at covering it up. I covered up the abuse for four years, I posted nice things on Facebook, kept us looking like the perfect couple. All because I was terrified he would go back to one of his exes. When the abuse got intolerable after my child was born that's when I had to quit this act but then I had dug myself into a huge hole, no one believed me!

My rambling tale I hope conveys that things can look great on the outside, I really don't think your ex has changed though. Social media is a great weapon for those trying to put on a show, it's easy to be a happy family. It isn't real though, I used to post our holiday pics and couply photographs especially after a horrible argument. When it looks too good to be true it usually is.

Hi stronger I feel exactly the same as you looks like their honeymoon stage is going on forever only today I heard that he as married her only after 16 months I too have seen photos they look very happy together/just hope she is hiding truths behind that smile because it don't seem fare that he only seems to get angry when he sees me maybe as some have said I was too strong and picked up on a lot of red flags just don't know all I do know is that im feeling so fed up and the feeling of injustice is overwhelming. your quote about the house break in and the barbecue were spot on.

So I am sitting here thinking I am losing my mind, and I read your post. Everything you wrote was my 13 year marriage to a Tee. And I filed for divorce and it has been official for a year now. He got a NS in my neighborhood, just blocks away, even though he was kind enough to move out more than an hour from me.

At first, after the divorce, there was constant calls, and favors he needed. Before I knew about No contact, I was kind and appeased him. That last about 6 months and then he found HER. He never told me about it but in February I saw them in a car together in my neighborhood entering a Dance Club. My ex is going to be 70. I laughed to myself, because I knew the Real Him would come out.

Guess what? it's been months and they are now the happy couple. She lives with him four days out of seven. Comes home to go to her job, and then by the end of the week, I can see her packing up her car and two dogs and off she goes. I see her, because I allow myself to see her. Stupid. I have had no contact with him for months.

But I do feel all those questions that you wrote about . Was it me? It was so god awful, there wasn't a person at my job, in my friend circle, or my neighbors that would have a conversation with him, for he was so overbearing and yet, he and his NS have no trouble going to job functions, meeting friends at dance clubs. I am floored. We never had a human enter our home, because no one felt comfortable to be in his house, where he definitely showed his attitude. He wanted my attention only and God forbide if I had to take care of my dying parents. Which I did for a year before they both passed. Punishment was to take every last dollar out of my name. He took me off beneficiary of every account and put now his children by his first marriage on it. I was out.

We never celebrated an anniversary or birthday in 13 years, now he celebrates Christmas and Mother's Day with her and her only. Obviously he is her world and there is no family involved. How perfect is that?
I wanted to get a Pomperian puppy years ago. He said the dog looked like a rat and wouldn't have it in the house. Guess what? she has two pomperians and she brings them to his home for four days a week. Now it's all okay.

And I find myself, waiting for her to open her eyes. But it is not happening. And now I've become obsessed. We never had a vacation in 13 years. They do. They go away and now it is no problem spending money. He got a Korvette, an Infinity, and spends on dinners, vacations. I feel where I once was thrilled to be free of all the horror because He was sick, that maybe it was just me....He didn't and couldn't love me, but has no problem with someone else.

And maybe he is happy with her. Maybe he and I were toxic together because I saw very quickly after marriage that he was a liar, that he was into himself and just wanted to keep me isolated from all that I knew 47 years before him. I fought him. Maybe she doesn't fight him, maybe she likes being with just him. And so now I am doubting myself. I know what it was like. My life was horrible. I had to get out. It was the best thing for me. But I am alone, because I stood up to him, and he is having the life that I wanted. I honestly don't get it. Where is the Karma. What he did to me, he did to his first wife. We both lived a life of horror. But could it be that in his old age, because he knows this is his last hoorah that he changed? And how the hell do I let this go....I am so full of anger.

Crazy2 (and everyone),

OMG - exactly! They "appear" to be having the times I wanted to have and tried so hard but it never went right. We live in the same area and I have altered my route to not pass his place but sometimes I cave and yeah I'm aware they are together all the time. He does not have many friends and he told me (when we were talking) that he doesn't much care for hers (of course). So the isolation seems to be in tact. He tried it with me - succeeded for awhile but like I said in earlier post - I bucked!! From then on it was the D&D Rodeo.

I read this somewhere else, “He doesn’t want to be around you anymore because instead of reflecting back an adoring perfect image of him, you represent the truth.” It’s funny when I think of when things started to change – this is exactly what was happening. When I was in college I had friends that would go on dates with guys they didn’t like. They’d get prettied up, go out, smile, laugh, even flirt. When they would come back I’d ask, “so you like him?” and they’d say “gosh no, it was a free meal.” I could never do that – and I’m not trying to sound superior. I mean physically I could never pull that off. If I was with someone who’s company I did not enjoy I couldn’t hide it. When things started to reveal themselves with xN and the anxiety started to build, I couldn’t hide it. He told me one time that he could feel that I was nervous, anxious and that it triggered him. Of course I was tasked with modifying my behavior – not him. I was supposed to have fun and act happy – no matter what happened.

My hurt is turning to anger also. Maybe that's good. Maybe it's one of the stages of grief. Part of me wants to hear that he’s curled up in a fetal position on his bathroom floor wondering why no one loves him. Part of me wants validation that what I experienced wasn’t just reserved for me. Maybe part of me thinks if he COULD be this great, normal guy to her he might actually apologize to me or at least thank me for being there during his dark days. He actually told me once that he wrote me a letter thanking me for being such a good friend over the past year and that he was going to leave it on my door (yes he lives that close) but then he threw it away. Was I supposed to think it was the thought that counts? Again, crumbs.

None of us are crazy - were are not here by mistake or coincidence. In some way, we all knew the same person on different levels, for different periods of time and if it had been joyous and filed with love and understanding we wouldn't be here. But it is a growth experience. Together we grow stronger. Sometimes (like today for me) we just need an extra boost. Thanks for the boost.

You're all so brilliant, and right, this is the crazy nonsensical place they've left us in.

You remember when you were a child, and you could never never ever let your worst enemy know they were right?

That's how I see Ns, post d and d. They would rather DIE than you (because, even though you have done nothing, you are now their worst enemy, actually sorry you did do something - you refused to lie about the horrid Ns true character) believe for one second you are right, they are childish enough to give the facade for as long as that they're great, and you're not.

It's not true by the way. We are great. They're really rubbish.

So there's that - plus yes, I agree that some women are just more submissive, which is perfect for a true N. someone who just say everything they do is great, even when it really isn't.

My ex N gave me progressive depression. I'm getting better now. He wanted me to give up a journalism career of twenty years to live in a seaside town taking drugs.

I guess some woman will want that.

I don't.

This stuff gets much easier when the N mist clears :) be thankful you're not their 'woman slave' anymore, that you will recover. Feel pity for the new slave. And then, don't even think about him. Ns are total bullshit. I'm sorry any of ever met one.

Sending heartfelt love xxx

That should say I'm sorry any of us ever met an N.

One finger typing on an iPhone, lol.

It helps to see it as abuse. Plain and simple. And unacceptable.

Xxx

It's true what you said about the N not wanting you to think you are right, that they will do anything to make sure that even post D&D you feel you are wrong. When my ex had D&D three girlfriends prior to me he had smeared them (I thought it was the truth back then) to me and then told me that our relationship proved these women wrong about him. That he wasn't a bad person, that it was their fault and not his. I was the proof he had changed.

Hmmm.

It took him fully FIVE years to really take the mask off and the abuser was before me. Prior to that I'd seen glimpses and there had been devaluation but not the painful discard phase with the horrific pain and abuse.

So they can pretend for years, my ex did that with me. He used social media to prove this point to the other women. I imagine he is now finding a new victim who he will use for years and devalue but who will keep the act up for the public (as I did) until it becomes unbearable. Those beautiful blue eyes of his and model good looks will keep her hooked, his charm and lies, then the unbearable will become the norm and the cycle will start all over again as he smears her and moves on.

I always thought I was a permanent fixture in his life, now I realise I was just the platform, he was the train stopping by when it was convenient. That's the way it will always be.

Actually - that's interesting - he used you to prove the previous women wrong.

Then did the same to you.

And he's doing it again to NS.

Being in a loving caring relationship should never be about proving previous 'victims' wrong.

But try telling that to an N.

They're just pathetic.

The mask will always come off, not if, but when :)

Very true.

Stronger, I know you are thinking it looks like he's changed, just know that he hasn't. They don't change, they don't view relationships as we do. He will have a use for her at the moment, they need to use someone for whatever it is they need at that time. Think about it, you know him better than anyone, what is it he is hoping to get from that relationship? It can be financial but also access to contacts, it can be emotional exploitation, anything that they need.

I know it is hard because it seems like he has changed but there could be stuff going on behind closed doors that you don't know about.

The narc is very adept at knowing what you want and then refusing to give it to you. You mention something you like, suddenly you never have that anymore. You tell him you enjoy a restaurant then suddenly he just never feels like going there. You tell him your parents never made a big deal out of your birthday and it was hurtful then he nearly goes so far as to forget your birthday and then use as his excuse that he thought it was traumatic for you and didn't want to make it worse by making a big deal out of it. Uggghhh.

My point is that after time spent with them they know you. They don't learn about you to meet your needs but to know your Achilles's Heel. It is possible that the FB photos, stories he is CERTAIN to tell anyone who will listen (knowing it will get back to you) and these kinds of things are often choreographed to hurt you. You got wise about them so you must be punished and devalued.

My husband never treated me well but I would often tell others we had such a special relationship. I would say that in part to cover for what was wrong because I felt ashamed that my own husband wouldn't love me and in part I had to get myself to believe the fantasy that things were good. My only other choice was to believe that he was intentionally trying to hurt me ...and that I couldn't accept until recently. My point is that whatever the NS is portraying, that doesn't mean its true. She might simply be regurgitating what he is brain washing her to believe is true.

I was able to see some letters he wrote to his NS (long story). Now that I know what to look for I could see right through it, but I could also put myself in her place believing in what he was saying because 1) she has no idea he's a narc 2) she was vulnerable before she met him so has vested interest in him being sincere 3) he is soooooo convincing and believable. I mean he's so believable that I am convinced that without a reason to doubt I likely never would after reading his words! It also showed me that he used our relationship to strengthen his hook. He recites back things I've said and makes it sound like his own words. Therefore any woman hearing his words thinks he's tender and insightful (I mean, wow, he thinks like a woman and not like all these self centered jerks!! How lucky am I to have found someone who thinks just like me!)

Why they can last longer with another supply has many possibilities. Maybe she doesn't confront him so it works for him. Maybe she has a professional or other image that is useful to him to keep her around. Maybe she meets his supply in another way by doing things for him or stroking his ego- writes him poetry in his honor or persistently tells everyone HE knows what a great guy he is. It might even be it has nothing to do with her but he's getting some kind of benefit from her relative or someone she's connected with that he would lose if he weren't with her. Bottom line a narc doesn't just change. They always have a hidden agenda.

Godismyhonour your relationship was so much like mine.I tried to convince myself that he loved me, I knew deep down he didn't and that's what destroyed me so much. I was so in love that I worked hard for his approval, changed things about myself and ended up a stranger to myself. Meanwhile he was laughing his socks off probably.

My ex would occasionally come out with the odd one liner that revealed his true self, he had often talked about his exes. Sometimes this would be a good story (to make me feel competitive with them) or a smear story about their faults. After this conversation he once said 'each relationship is practice for the next one'. So I was 'practice'. Every relationship was his perfecting the mask he wore, probably with the next woman my ex narc will be able to keep the act up for longer. He has oodles of great ideas for romance thanks to me who used to surprise him with gifts and trips so I bet he uses those on the next woman.

So they just get better at it ! It will end the same though and another woman will be hooked on him like me and her heart broken. Jar of hearts, that's what he has.

Wow, they really should wear signs with skulls and crossbones to warn people how dangerous and poisonous they are. That competition thing, mine did that too. He had "friends" that he would spend time with that would spoil him rotten - cook dinner, give him gifts, take him places, shopping and he would come back all puffed up. I quickly realized that things I did with him/for him he seemed to expect from me but if someone else showered him with attention it was special. Incidentally, these were the same "friends" that in the beginning he devalued to me - telling me all about their problems and how he was distancing himself from them because they had problems and he "found someone good." But before long he shifted and thought nothing of ditching me to hang out with them, do favors for them, or jump anytime they called. The idea of me meeting them or all of us hanging out together of course never came up. He would even call me when he was with them, usually to tell me he was staying the night where originally he was going to come back and we were going to do something - and YES he had dated one of them before me but now they were just "friends." Of course I wasn't supposed to express any displeasure with this situation - or I would be labeled jealous, needy, emotional. Mine also had nice romantic ideas problem was it would come out of my pocket. Not very romantic.