Multiple Personalities Support Group
Dissociative identity disorder is a diagnosis described as the existence in an individual of two or more distinct identities or personalities, each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment. At least two of these personalities are considered to routinely take control of the individual's behavior, and there is also some associated memory loss,...
hi, im kevin
ive been a member of this forum for a while but not sure if ive ever posted. I tend to visit occasionally and simply lurk. Id like some advice please? And i apologise for the length.
i have a friend (yeah i know, but this is true). Shes not a real life friend, shes a virtual life friend ive never met her and i probably never shall (yeah yeah i still know, but this is also true). We met on a poetry forum about 4 year ago when she was about 15 year old and i was 56. My friend is now near 20 and im 60. But somehow (as is the nature of the virtual world) weve become good friends. Considering our age difference weve become close friends. And she s come to trust me with things i suspect shes trusted few if any other people with. We chat quite regularly on skype and gtalk. IM that is, very rarely actual phone talking and even more extremely rare for video chat
shes had a very difficult childhood, shes isolated within her family with only limited access to friends and has not been allowed to express anger nor allowed to cry. I believe that even the thought of opening up emotionally to someone can trigger anxiety states or panic attacks in her. When chatting id often see her spiral, go into emotional meltdown. Id know cos she would start answering in single words or monosyllables, with increasing lag between responses. And many of her responses to whether she was ok or if i could do anything would become repetitions of i dont know. Then one evening when she was in one of these meltdowns i asked what it was like there, there meaning her emotional state and she responded with ... ok kevin, im trusting you now ... and she told me of the safe place shed created over the years. An elaborate, complex, very real place within herself she could retreat to at such times. Which took me totally by surprise cos id never ever suspected. And i came to believe that what id thought were just emotional melt downs were possible dissociative episodes? I think this was early last year.
then late last year i was chatting with my friend on skype and i got seriously pissed off with her for what i thought were her constantly lying when it wasnt necessary. And i left the skype chat in a sulk (im looking a tad embarressd here). She contacted me on gtalk and i was rude to her and she went into a meltdown like i hadnt seen before. I finally saw where my friends anger lived, and she expressed it. Briefly. The she turned it in on herself, told me what a bitch she was and that she deserved to be punished. It broke my heart. And after another couple of brief exchanges she disappeared on me. Very soon after she came back and in little girl language said that *my friends name * had gone bye byes now and wouldnt be back tonight but i shouldnt worry cos she would be ok. Of course i immediately went into panic. After no more responses on gtalk i reopened skype and fortunately my friend hadnt closed it down so i started send chat messages asking her to come back. Eventually she was irritated enough to come back. Except. It wasnt my friend. It was the little one that had told me my friend had gone bye byes. She was pretty much unresponsive to my asking her things, but she spontaneously offered much about herself without my asking. She didnt know her own name and was confused about or simply didnt know lots of things about herself that she ought to. She demanded to know who i was (im smiling at this memory). But she knew she was 8 year old and in school. She told me about some bad things happening in her life, centred around her parents but mainly around her mum (who has been the chief instigator of the emotional abuse my friend has suffered since little). Towards the end of the chat her almost monologue became more of a dialogue between us. And we eventually said goodnight. The next morning when my friend saw the skype chat record of a conversation she didnt remember having she was somewhat upset, but i did my best t reassure her it was ok and we left it behind us. Sort of.
ive chatted several times with that little one since 4 times more i think. Always after my friend has gone into major meltdown resulting in a dissociative episode. Two of which ive provoked. They followed a similar pattern to the first. The little one would just arrive, and start telling me of distressing events in her life most often centred around her mum. Gradually we would start to engage in a dialogue until she was ready for sleep. During the second chat she sort of knew her name was the same as my friends but wasnt really happy with that so i asked her if she would like to choose her own first names which surprised her and she asked could she do that and could she have more than 1 first name? I told her that of course she could and linked her a couple of websites of first names, their origins and meanings etc. She quickly chose 2 names that with her surname are really lovely. And these names have become her. Slowly over the course of these chats she has become more aware of herself with far less things about herself she is unable to remember. Its been like shes slowly emerging from a fog
I said that the subsequent chats followed a similar pattern to the first, but the most recent one last week differed immensely. It occurred when i triggered a dissociative episode in my friend and she abruptly disappeared from the chat. This time the little one came on chat (unannounced as always) and said ...
hello again. you know, kevin, i think the problem is you took too long to believe her
... which she had never done before. She called me by name, which shed never done before i dont even think shed ever used my name before. She didnt use little girl names for mother and father which shes always done before, in fact all of her language was pretty much adult. She didnt talk about awful things in her life. And for the first time ever she told me of events that had happened in her past when she was 9, a holiday overseas where she wore lots of dresses and ate good food. Up until now shed always been 8 year old. Totally. And now 8 and even 9 year old was in her past.
I should point out here that my friend never has any memory of my conversation with this little one. Not until she logs back onto skype the next day and sees the chat history. I've taken to texting her the next morning to let her know i chatted with the little one s that my friend isn't taken by surprise. Especially when my friend is sometimes discussed. My friend remarked a few days ago that the little one seemed to be aging faster that she as and wondered what would happen if she caught up to her in age. My friend said she didnt think she was a multiple personality cos through all my chats with the little one, some of her later memories and mannerisms have been available to the little one. She thinks that real alters have different memories totally. And this little one only ever shows up at night my foirend thinks this may indicate that she isnt a real later. Also she didnt think alters could age? But she also said that she didnt really know if she was multiple or not. I asked if it made her uncomfortable to think of herself as a multiple and she said it did, mainly because of the stigma associated with mental illness, plus things like what if the little one spontaneously appears after she gets a job?
so, finally, the help i would like on behalf of my friend. I told her i was a member of this forum and with her permission i would ask here ...
can alters grow up?
what are any likely consequences if my friends little one continues to grow up and reaches my friends age?
and id like to personally ask ...
i know diagnosis is not easy and that you arent the people to offer one, but do you have any opinions as to whether my friend is multiple (i believe there are perhaps 2 more of her that im directly and indirectly aware of?)
is it possible to have not full alters but say (i dont know what to call them) fragments of your own personality that you keep compartmentalised such as that part of my friend where she keeps her anger and who turns that anger back in on herself (who ive met twice now and who i suspect is one of those two i mentioned in the question above)
sorry for the extreme long windedness, i wanted to give you enough information. Thankyou in advance for any responses you might give
: -)
k
oh, and a PS
i cant begin to tell how privileged (?) i feel that my friend has trusted me with so much of her life (including the little one)
ive been a member of this forum for a while but not sure if ive ever posted. I tend to visit occasionally and simply lurk. Id like some advice please? And i apologise for the length.
i have a friend (yeah i know, but this is true). Shes not a real life friend, shes a virtual life friend ive never met her and i probably never shall (yeah yeah i still know, but this is also true). We met on a poetry forum about 4 year ago when she was about 15 year old and i was 56. My friend is now near 20 and im 60. But somehow (as is the nature of the virtual world) weve become good friends. Considering our age difference weve become close friends. And she s come to trust me with things i suspect shes trusted few if any other people with. We chat quite regularly on skype and gtalk. IM that is, very rarely actual phone talking and even more extremely rare for video chat
shes had a very difficult childhood, shes isolated within her family with only limited access to friends and has not been allowed to express anger nor allowed to cry. I believe that even the thought of opening up emotionally to someone can trigger anxiety states or panic attacks in her. When chatting id often see her spiral, go into emotional meltdown. Id know cos she would start answering in single words or monosyllables, with increasing lag between responses. And many of her responses to whether she was ok or if i could do anything would become repetitions of i dont know. Then one evening when she was in one of these meltdowns i asked what it was like there, there meaning her emotional state and she responded with ... ok kevin, im trusting you now ... and she told me of the safe place shed created over the years. An elaborate, complex, very real place within herself she could retreat to at such times. Which took me totally by surprise cos id never ever suspected. And i came to believe that what id thought were just emotional melt downs were possible dissociative episodes? I think this was early last year.
then late last year i was chatting with my friend on skype and i got seriously pissed off with her for what i thought were her constantly lying when it wasnt necessary. And i left the skype chat in a sulk (im looking a tad embarressd here). She contacted me on gtalk and i was rude to her and she went into a meltdown like i hadnt seen before. I finally saw where my friends anger lived, and she expressed it. Briefly. The she turned it in on herself, told me what a bitch she was and that she deserved to be punished. It broke my heart. And after another couple of brief exchanges she disappeared on me. Very soon after she came back and in little girl language said that *my friends name * had gone bye byes now and wouldnt be back tonight but i shouldnt worry cos she would be ok. Of course i immediately went into panic. After no more responses on gtalk i reopened skype and fortunately my friend hadnt closed it down so i started send chat messages asking her to come back. Eventually she was irritated enough to come back. Except. It wasnt my friend. It was the little one that had told me my friend had gone bye byes. She was pretty much unresponsive to my asking her things, but she spontaneously offered much about herself without my asking. She didnt know her own name and was confused about or simply didnt know lots of things about herself that she ought to. She demanded to know who i was (im smiling at this memory). But she knew she was 8 year old and in school. She told me about some bad things happening in her life, centred around her parents but mainly around her mum (who has been the chief instigator of the emotional abuse my friend has suffered since little). Towards the end of the chat her almost monologue became more of a dialogue between us. And we eventually said goodnight. The next morning when my friend saw the skype chat record of a conversation she didnt remember having she was somewhat upset, but i did my best t reassure her it was ok and we left it behind us. Sort of.
ive chatted several times with that little one since 4 times more i think. Always after my friend has gone into major meltdown resulting in a dissociative episode. Two of which ive provoked. They followed a similar pattern to the first. The little one would just arrive, and start telling me of distressing events in her life most often centred around her mum. Gradually we would start to engage in a dialogue until she was ready for sleep. During the second chat she sort of knew her name was the same as my friends but wasnt really happy with that so i asked her if she would like to choose her own first names which surprised her and she asked could she do that and could she have more than 1 first name? I told her that of course she could and linked her a couple of websites of first names, their origins and meanings etc. She quickly chose 2 names that with her surname are really lovely. And these names have become her. Slowly over the course of these chats she has become more aware of herself with far less things about herself she is unable to remember. Its been like shes slowly emerging from a fog
I said that the subsequent chats followed a similar pattern to the first, but the most recent one last week differed immensely. It occurred when i triggered a dissociative episode in my friend and she abruptly disappeared from the chat. This time the little one came on chat (unannounced as always) and said ...
hello again. you know, kevin, i think the problem is you took too long to believe her
... which she had never done before. She called me by name, which shed never done before i dont even think shed ever used my name before. She didnt use little girl names for mother and father which shes always done before, in fact all of her language was pretty much adult. She didnt talk about awful things in her life. And for the first time ever she told me of events that had happened in her past when she was 9, a holiday overseas where she wore lots of dresses and ate good food. Up until now shed always been 8 year old. Totally. And now 8 and even 9 year old was in her past.
I should point out here that my friend never has any memory of my conversation with this little one. Not until she logs back onto skype the next day and sees the chat history. I've taken to texting her the next morning to let her know i chatted with the little one s that my friend isn't taken by surprise. Especially when my friend is sometimes discussed. My friend remarked a few days ago that the little one seemed to be aging faster that she as and wondered what would happen if she caught up to her in age. My friend said she didnt think she was a multiple personality cos through all my chats with the little one, some of her later memories and mannerisms have been available to the little one. She thinks that real alters have different memories totally. And this little one only ever shows up at night my foirend thinks this may indicate that she isnt a real later. Also she didnt think alters could age? But she also said that she didnt really know if she was multiple or not. I asked if it made her uncomfortable to think of herself as a multiple and she said it did, mainly because of the stigma associated with mental illness, plus things like what if the little one spontaneously appears after she gets a job?
so, finally, the help i would like on behalf of my friend. I told her i was a member of this forum and with her permission i would ask here ...
can alters grow up?
what are any likely consequences if my friends little one continues to grow up and reaches my friends age?
and id like to personally ask ...
i know diagnosis is not easy and that you arent the people to offer one, but do you have any opinions as to whether my friend is multiple (i believe there are perhaps 2 more of her that im directly and indirectly aware of?)
is it possible to have not full alters but say (i dont know what to call them) fragments of your own personality that you keep compartmentalised such as that part of my friend where she keeps her anger and who turns that anger back in on herself (who ive met twice now and who i suspect is one of those two i mentioned in the question above)
sorry for the extreme long windedness, i wanted to give you enough information. Thankyou in advance for any responses you might give
: -)
k
oh, and a PS
i cant begin to tell how privileged (?) i feel that my friend has trusted me with so much of her life (including the little one)
If at all possible I would encourage your friend to come to this sight as we will be fully supportive of the whole her and nurture all of her in the best way we can. Even better, while daunting it would be good if you could help her seek some professional help because this road is a long, tiring, bumpy road.
maaate
: - )
thanks for response.
well, she had to have a name she knew was hers and i needed to be able to call her by name. Wed chat for at last an hour each time and i think perhaps as much as two hours. She just needed a name for many reasons, not the least that she needed an anchor i think?
when alters grow up, is it in real time? For instance if you had a 14 year old alter that started growing up now would they turn 20 in 6 years time? Or could they say grow up quicker than real time and turn 20 in 4 years time? Or perhaps slower turn 20 in 10 or more years time? Or start growing up but stop at say 18 and never reach 20? Or even all / any of the above? I guess what im asking is does their growing up follow external calendar time? Or does it follow some seemingly random internal time of their own?
and do alters have only their own memories? Or can they also access their hosts(?) memories? Access memories that post date their age?
ive mentioned this site a couple of times now, and i told her i would pass on any responses so she is aware of it. I think shell find herself here in her own time. I not sure shes ready to consider herself as multiple just yet. For the same reason she wont have therapy. I have encouraged her to consider therapy but she wont / cant. She still shares a roof with her parents and her mum is an absolute shocker. Always inflicting hurts both petty and major upon her. My friend has nowhere safe to deal with any issues or instabilities therapy might raise. Plus her parents are members of a religious group that believe multiples are possessed by ghosts (or some similar stupidity) and they compel my friend to participate i would hate to think what they would inflict upon her.
You should be commended for being such a open-minded and very good friend. I'm in my 50s and also have friends who are teens and really all ages. This is a good thing. All kinds of people come together in friendship. Again I'm glad she has you.
Like tyzz27 I would encourage you friend to come join us here. Even if she only reads and never posts she may find good understanding. Perhaps finding us here will help her reach out and learn more about herself. You know many of us have expressed different apporoaches to DID. What we think it means, how we want to deal with out injuries and alters are different for differnt people. But we are here to understand each other. If you can get your friend to read the board, perhaps she will find something she needs.
Good luck with your friend and bless you.
Unfortunately while DID is just as common as bi-polar, schizophrenia or other mental illnesses like that unfortunately it is still rejected by society including so called psychiatrists even though it has its own listing under the DSM (the psychiatric book the lists all mental disorders). Therefore if even the experts are going to reject the validity of DID its no surprise that every day people do. This being the case its say that you get people like your friends parents who think the personalities are just ghosts/demons living within your friend and therefore its no surprise that with this propaganda being fed to your friend by her parents that she is going to listen to them and not you.
I dont know if you can do some cutting and pasting but perhaps rather than giving your friend some feeback on the responses to your post perhaps you could print out our responses and show them to her for her to read. This might give her some encouragement to come and look at the site and know we're pretty 'normal' people with fascinating lifes. Having DID is not a curse in fact Im thankful every day for my personalities because I know that if i didnt have my 12 guys and girls, some young, some old, I would have survived to become the person I am today.
ty
i'm seriously glad her life has touched mine
: -)
i'll suggest she consider joining forum when i pass on member responses but i'm not sure it will be likely. She lives in semi rural area fairly isolated within her family from neighbors and friends. She's essentially caught in a world that is hostile to her. She had what i consider an emotionally abusive childhood - abuse that continues today. For a number of reasons she is not in a position to leave home and her mother is capable of turning her life into a total shit sandwich at a moment's notice. And does. My friend is just in no real position to deal with this at the moment nor seek professional help for any issues that might arise.
aah tyzz27
i suspect most of her knows the ghost thing is crap but i also suspect there is a part of her that worries about it? Like i mentioned above, if she decides no to join forum i think it would be cos she is in no real position to deal with it and her home situation could go awfully wrong awfully fast if her mum even suspected
: -(
plus even though i believe she has not been totally ignorant of things - she hasn't been consciously aware of much until this past few month. This situation needs gentle time i think?
-smiles-
though i really hope she eventually finds her way here
First, I so happy that when she put herself out on a limb to trust you, you treated her with respect, caring, and safety. I'm also glad to see that you don't seem to be angling to "save" her from her parents and bring her to you. Sorry, but it's my naturally suspicious nature that made me reread every sentence, looking for some nefarious alterior motive. I didn't find any, and am glad for that. She seems to have a true friend in you, and that support can mean so much, especially when we're isolated.
How "being multiple" works is as unique as the person involved. No two of us are exactly alike. There's an old saying, "Ask ten multiples the same question and you'll get thirty different answers."
I do want to change some terminology to help your friend understand and feel less worried about being multiple, if she is. Many of us have realized being multiple is not a mental illness; instead, it's a coping mechanism we developed as children to enable us to maintain a loving connection with people who were hurting us. Most mental illnesses, on the other hand, are caused by either chemical imbalances, disease or physical injury to the brain. We have none of the above. We used a skill that all people are born with (dissociation - think of daydreaming) in order to survive what may have killed other people. The fact that we can function as "ordinary" adults in society after what we lived through is proof that this is a valid coping mechanism, not an illness.
That said, no, it's not all rosey when you're multiple. Memory is a strange thing to us, as is time. Neither flows in a straight line like it does for non-multiples. It seems to speed up, slow down, even come and go. Learning that sometimes you are someone quite different is frightening at first, until you get to know the "other people" and realize they are your friends who have seen you through some really tough situations. Then, as Tyzz says, you become truly grateful for this gift of multiplicity.
I have to add here that my littlest alt burst into grateful tears on hearing that you helped your friend's little one choose her own name. A name was important to my Prudence because the only time she heard my name spoken by my mother, it was done with disgust or dismay, so Pru grew to fear my name. She chose Prudence when she heard my husband sing, "Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play..." the old Beatles song. She not only came out to play, but she decided that Prudence would be her name, because it was spoken with love and encouragement.
I'd like to add a message directly to your friend, if I might:
Hi there. You don't know me, but your friend has mentioned that you're confused about what you've been experiencing, and a little scared about it. It's okay to feel that way. I was scared, too, when I first realized that I didn't seem to be myself when I scared or angry. I didn't think I was multiple, but I had lots of questions and didn't know anyone I could ask. I came across dailystrength.org when I was looking up information online, and am so glad I checked out this site. For a long time I just read what other people were posting and hoped they couldn't see that I was reading their posts. I found they were a bunch of people all trying to answer the same questions as I had. They were all nice to each other and some had some answers that really helped. I've been here ever since. It's such a relief to find out you're not the only one who experiences these things, and it feels really good when others understand and offer support. I know I speak for everyone in the DID forum when I say we would welcome you to come and check out the forum. You don't have to have DID to read or post here... We have members like your friend who come here with questions to help their friends and loved ones, and we have members who aren't sure if they have DID and want to learn more about it.
It's particularly hard to find out about yourself when you're still living with your parents, because if there are other parts of you, they were created to protect you from your parents in some way, and they will keep doing their job. However, you will at least know you're not alone and be able to talk with people safely, and that will help you grow. Most people with DID don't discover it until their thirties... having suffered flashbacks, lost time, confusion and chaos, all that time in between. If it turns out that you ARE a multiple, you'll have saved yourself all that time, and probably be much healthier and happier than we were when you turn 30.
Not only are you welcome in the group, but if you don't dare to ask questions in public at first, you are welcome to message me through the dailystregth message system. I'm no expert, just another multiple learning as I go, but I'll be happy to try to answer your questions while you decide if you want to post anything in the community forum. ~ Wistala
Thank you, Kevin, for allowing me this long-winded response to your post. I have one more thing to add... You've met one part of her that seems angry and possibly self-abusive. It's not at all unusual for us to have one part that emulates our abuser, "keeping us in line" even when the abuser isn't present. I'm glad her little one said she'd be okay, but it might help if you hear that angry one again, to calmly respond that "those aren't your words, and you don't deserve them. Those are your mother's words, and she was wrong. You don't deserve to be punished," etc. That will take a lot of repeating, especially if she doesn't remember it happening, but those alts give us a lot of trouble until we realize they aren't really part of us - They're projections of people who hurt us.
Hope to see both of you here in the future!
Wistala
-smiles -
i shall pass on your comment in full to my friend when i let her know of everyone's responses. I'm not quite sure when that will be but it hopefully it should be soon. This is not a subject i'm prepared to broach with my friend - i'm really only comfortable waiting for her to speak about it cos then i'll know that a part of her wants to talk of it and that it will be less likely to trigger her. Simply cos she is so isolated and has only her bedroom to retreat to, no one to hold her safe if she goes into meltdown. I would not cause her harm inadvertantly, if that makes sense?
I have 3 alters who came when I was very young and have grown up with me, these are our co-ordinators. Then I have had 2 others that as they were free to emerge and found that they were accepted have grown up 2 -3 years. My 4 year old is now 6. and one of my 10 year olds is now 12 almost 13. So to your question, "Can alter grow up?" I'd say yes, How that happens I think no one knows, I beleive that everyone has to just go with where their growth is taking them, no matter the DX, healing happens as we look into ourselves and find all the wonderful beauty within.
Phoebe, The Gate Keeper
this forum seems full of gentle willing to share - this is no small thing. I hope my friend finds her way here soon