I read your response to my thread that I started earlier, something about "If ever I have a 2nd pregnancy" and it broke my heart to know that you are suffering yet again. You have been such a great support to me and others. I'm glad you are grateful to have your first child, I even envy you a bit, you have a child to come home to, you were able to have a successful pregnancy. I would give anything to go back and have the naive bliss of at least one healthy pregnancy. But I do know that you hurt, no amount of other children can take that pain away. You don't understand the hurt of losing a first child, just as I don't understand the hurt of losing two children. I'm sorry you are put in the position to need our support again, but we are here.

I want to tell you that you are allowed to be envious. I felt nervous joining this group in late 2012 for fear people may think I don't belong here. But I have received support from you and others and for that I feel grateful.

But I completely understand what you are saying. That waiting for that successful pregnancy is heartbreaking.

I had medical issues (unrelated to fertility) prior to conceiving my daughter. At the time it "felt like" infertility b/c my medical issues made it not a safe time to try to conceive. And we hadn't even tried yet. So I didn't even know yet if we'd be able to conceive. It was agonizing --- several years. All the while friends around me were having their first and second children left and right.

So while I'm not in your exact shoes, I do understand (based on my experience from 7 to 10 years ago) what it's like when you don't know what the future holds and you feel powerless over a lot of it.

I understand there is a difference between having a pregnancy result in a live birth and still waiting for that to happen. Even despite the losses I have had.

There are moments where my daughter is my strength. There are other moments (like today) where it is hard to face her when I am hurting so much inside. And I don't want her to see the tears in my eyes. We don't tell her about these pregnancies (they're too early on) so that she doesn't have to grieve like we are.

A year or so ago when pregnancy seemed elusive for me, a friend with two children confided to me that she always wanted 4 children but has suffered numerous miscarriages and they went through so much just to be able to have their two children.

At the time she sounded selfish to me. I thought "you have your two, why do you need four?" till I realized that people could think the same of me "you have your one, why do you need another?"

I once saw on another support site a woman who has 11 children and says she will "not feel complete" till she has her twelfth. (She recently had a miscarriage.) And people tell her to just enjoy the children she has.

I have learned (after judging others) that it's not fair for me to judge others. That the heart wants what it wants.

I donated most of my daughter's major items a couple years after she was born. She had a lot of challenges since birth. Severe anxiety disorder and sensory integration disorder. She suffered greatly. But has since made absolutely significant strides.

From birth to age 3, I was overwhelmed with her challenges. And I felt I could not have handled (as lovingly and effectively as I would want to) two closely aged children when she was young.

And not just that, I felt we were complete. So much so that I donated even her crib.

And then 3 years later I had a change of heart and felt I wanted to have one more child. I did not see that coming. I didn't plan that desire. It just happened.

So much of this is out of our control. What the heart desires.

Thank you so much for not judging me and for being supportive.

As heavy as it may feel some days, keep your head up. I know that is much easier said than done. I am finding it hard to take my own advice today.

I remain hopeful for you. I know how hard it is to get through each month and each reminder.

I feel the pain that you are going through. Please know that you are thought of often.

I'm glad you were brave enough to come here, risking the judgement you thought might follow. I also appreciate your honesty of having another child. I know that there are probably women out there who may not sympathize with you, but like you say, it's not my place to judge. Sometimes I can remember that and other times I get judgemental and bitter. But it also depends on how the other person presents themselves.

I kind of feel like a fraud for being here because I never wanted kids, I had a troublesome childhood, don't have very good relations with my family at times and felt I had to "raise" my parents. I didn't need to raise a child, but love happens, marriage happens, things change. My life is not at all what I imagined it would be, so I opened myself up to the possibility of creating a better family with my husband. And then we have problems conceiving and when we do conceive we lose it. And of course I feel the rush rush of age since now I am pushing 36 and hubby is pushing 40. So now I am sad, bitter and angry over something I didn't even know I wanted.

But we are all walking down a very lonely road and I for one am not going to make it more lonely by discriminating against someone who has a different journey than mine. I need all the support I can get.

Hello

I am sorry your having theses losses and differculties. I like Poly have no children and would be feel so blessed to just have 1, that'sall I want and would give my right arm just for that.

However there is one-thing I would like to say to you. I have great respect for you, and I respect the fact that you realised how blessed you are to have your child. It's so refreshing to know you see your blessings & it's very clear that you greatly appreciate the blessing of your beautiful child.

I also want you to know that you have the right to be upset and heart broken regardless of the fact you already have a child. It doesn't make ur pain any easier to deal with, and don't feel selfish for being upset, it's natural that ur going to be upset after a loss, but obviously you can't sink into a depression, because you have a daughter that needs her mums time, love and attention, and your attention needs to be there.

I find with some women that they have children, and then they have a miscarriage and some women go into a deep and serious depression. I am not saying they shouldn't be upset and they have a right to grieve as any other woman does, but if that woman have a child, then she has to be very mindful that the upset/depression does not reach a serious/unhealthy stage, because that's very unfair on her children who nenes her love and full attention.

Also the relationship can be effected between the mother and child, if the level of depression reaches an unhealthy level.

In regards to women having a child and wanting more, in my opinion, it's not selfish, it's only considered selfish when the mother falls into a deep depression, and focus all her time and energy on crying and being constantly upset, this will lead to the child feeling neglected and unwanted. That's the only part I do not agree with, but that's not to say she cannot be upset, but as always the needs of the child comes 1st.

I am happy that u have your daughter and am pleased that you appreciate the blessings it brought to ur life. It has really made my day that you understand how childless women feel, and that you have the intelligence, and respect to see how blessed you are, and for that I would say ur not at all selfish at all.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that don't appreciate what they have and demand they want another, and there attention goes on all there wants and needs, and the poor child ends up feeling unwanted or sometimes just confused that mummy is never happy anymore, and the child ends up suffering, that I do not agree with. As I said before as it's about the child, and once ur a mum, the child comes 1st every time.

This is my opinion and I feel what am saying makes sense.

All I really want to say is am so sorry for ur losses.I really hope u have another really soon. You sould like a very lovely woman and I wish you every happiness and joy in ur life.

Thank you for realising your blessings. Please don't feel ur being selfish - ur not. It's ok to want to have another beautiful blessing.

In my eyes a blessed person is one who realises there blessingsn in life. A woman could have 10 kids, and a childless woman would consider her so blessed, however in my eyes she is not blessed as all because she doesn't see her blessings or considers herself blessed.

Takecare x x

Polydoly, You are not a fraud by any means. Your grief is real. The very fact that you are on this site and the emotions you have revealed to us shows how very much you are a mother. Things change, desires change. Just because you may have thought you didn't want children a few years ago doesn't make you a fraud now.

A fraud would be still not wanting children and pretending to be upset. That's not you at all.

There is a book called "Love Works Like This". It's written by a psychiatrist. She was married and specifically never wanted children because of the childhood she had had herself. And then she found herself accidentally pregnant later in life. She was also bipolar and on medications. And terrified of what this would do to the pregnancy. The book takes you through her journey in the pregnancy. Her sometimes ambivalent emotions about the pregnancy. Her bipolar flareup when she was off the medications, etc.

It's been a while since I read it. But it's a beautiful story of many trials and eventual triumphs. About how her love and desire to be a mother evolved and how very attached she became to her daughter.

I am not drawing much of a parallel of her to you. Because there's so much you don't have in common. The only common thread was when you said you never wanted children because of your childhood and now you do. And the author too found herself so in love with her child just as you found yourself so in love with your own beautiful unborn child.

Rach, Thank you so much for your response. Your kind words and support. I'm sorry that you have encountered individuals who neglect their living children because they become so consumed with wanting another one. I can't say I have experience with anyone like that in my own life. That has to be a difficult thing to watch.

I do have experience with mothers who have 8 children. And one in particular who is now pregnant with her 9th. They're married. They're a stable family. But here she is pregnant with her ninth and she rolled her eyes when she announced that she's pregnant AGAIN. As if it's something that's out of her control. And she was seen having a glass of wine and a martini all in one evening during her pregnancy.

That's difficult to be around. Here's an interesting thought. I have found at times myself so envious of women who can birth their second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. child in a heartbeat. Like it comes so easily to them in comparison to what I'm going through. But for one we don't know what else they have been through. In fact, I know of another mom who has 8 children and I just heard her say the other day that she has a son who would be 3, but he passed away at a young age.

I find myself assuming that these mothers of large families have not dealt with losses of their own. But I met another mom the other day. She has 6 children and she has gone through a couple of miscarriages. I wouldn't have guessed that.

Anyway, the interesting thought. When I would find myself feeling bitter or envious that pregnancy seems to come so easily to some women.....I would talk to this woman who is a sort of life coach for me. She's a doula and does reiki, craniosacral therapy, etc. And she said when I find myself feeling that way....instead of focusing on "they have this and I don't".....she said try something completely different. Try "breathing in" their fertility when you're around them.

I realize that sounds so crazy. But I understood what she meant. And I put it into practice. I'm a Girl Scout leader so I'm around a lot of moms who have several children, including the aforementioned moms who have 8 or 9 kids each. I now find myself not standing next to them harboring resentment. But instead feeling happy for them that pregnancy comes so easily to them. And that their bodies have done this so many times. And sort of wanting to take in their aura...not sure how else to explain it. But being at peace with it and wanting my body to learn something from their own energy.

I have probably gotten off topic here, but it was an interesting thought that I wanted to share.

I can fully appreciate and understand your feeling of giving your right arm to have a child. When this most recent miscarriage was happening a couple days ago I found myself having thoughts that I would go through any surgery any kind of slicing me open to just fix this if it could be fixed, which I know it can't.

That is by definition a mother. What you are willing to sacrifice. I know you may already hear this from others, but I will say it too. You ARE already a mother. Not yet in the sense you want to be. But your heart is full of love and desire and nurturing. And you have held a baby in your womb. You are a mother.

And my sincere heartfelt wishes that you conceive again and that the pregnancy is strong and you will have your own little one to cradle in your arms. You deserve no less.

Hi there :(..
I have to hold back tears for you today seeing this makes me so sad...You have to remember you are not alone in this fight! Never stop praying for that lil baby even though you wonder and wonder why me again God?? I have asked that many times! But He always knows what is best for us! Even though it is hard you just put one foot in front of the other and you will make it!! we all will! Hugs to you! I will be praying God heals your heart and sends you your one last request for another child!...Never give up!

Thank you. Knowing that others care and send their support means the world during times like this.
Today was a pretty good day, all things considered. But sometimes the grief takes my breath away.
I found a therapist who is on our insurance plan and I talked to her on the phone today. And it helped to hear that she has had clients (before me) who have suffered miscarriages. And she told me that she has 3 children but did have 2 miscarriages herself. And that the rest of the world often expects you to "just get over it" and that's just not how it is. I have my first appt with her on Monday and our appt with the RE tomorrow. So I am feeling hopeful that I have resources like these. And the support on this site is immense. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. It is true that in times like these you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and when day by day is too hard or hour by hour is too hard, then you take things moment by moment.