Insomnia Support Group
Insomnia is a symptom, rather than a disease, and is characterized by inadequate quantity or quality of sleep. People with insomnia complain of difficulty falling or staying asleep, which results in significant impairment of daytime functioning. Insomnia is categorized as transient (shorter than one week), short-term (one to three weeks) or chronic (longer than three...
Hello all,
Many of us suffer from chronic insomnia. I've wondered many times when I was suffering from it why I couldn't go to sleep. It felt like something was "broken" in my head....something wasn't working right. Well the answer to that is "Yes"....there is something broken. Acute, intermittent insomnia is very common but what I'm talking about is when insomnia is very SEVERE and you can't sleep at all or VERY LITTLE...over an extended period of time. I experienced this for about 5-6 months. Even with Ambien 10mg I could only get about 1-2 hours of sleep.
So.....ever wondered why you can't sleep even though you are seemingly doing all the right things? You are relaxed....you've read...you've taken a hot bath, you've taken your magnesium, melatonin and a host of other "natural" sleep enhancers.
Here is your answer: HPA axis over-stimulation due to chronic anxiety and stress. Depression can also cause this as well. Below is an excerpt from an article entitled "Chronic Stress And The HPA Axis". The section below discusses the impact of HPA axis dysfunction on sleep.
Basically...once our HPA axis becomes dysfunctional it gets stuck on hyperdrive until we stop "feeding it" and give it time to normalize again.
Sleep Disorders
During slow-wave sleep, cortisol release is normally suppressed by
a decrease in CRH and a rise in growth hormone (GH) secretion.
Exposure to chronic stressors results in abnormal HPA axis and
SNS activation and disruption of the normal diurnal pattern of
GH, CRH and ACTH release. he result is a paradoxical rise in
cortisol levels in the evening hours and initial phases of sleep.
A vicious cycle ensues whereby nocturnal hypercortisolism
causes sleep fragmentation, raising cortisol levels even further.
Insomnia and melancholic depression are frequently observed
consequences. he increasingly common Obstructive Sleep
Apnea syndrome (OSA) has also been recognized as a key cause
of HPA axis dysfunction. he hypoxemia induced by recurrent
obstruction to airlow causes pulsatile release of cortisol and sleep
fragmentation. It is believed that the OSA-induced disruptions in
the release of cortisol and other adrenal hormones promotes the
development of secondary metabolic syndrome, hypertension,
and inflammatory diseases invariably seen in these patients.
So what do we do to fix this?
1) First....the literature I have read indicates that it takes a considerable amount of time for the HPA axis to go "back to normal". I don't have a time-line for you.
2) Find healthy ways to process/cope with anxiety & stress. This is what caused the problem to begin with. If you cannot lower your stress/anxiety, then the HPA axis will not "heal". Psychotherapy can help with this.
3) Use CBT-I (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia). This help REDUCE your anxiety as it relates to SLEEP. This is widely documented on the internet...drug free....no need for doc appt.
4) Use a host of other relaxation techniques (mindfulness, guided imagery, progressive relaxation, hypnotherapy, etc).
5) Vitamins/Minerals/Diet - improve your diet and take supplements.
If you boil it down we all basically have to REALLY WORK on our anxiety/stress/depression - determining it's source and working on lowering its impact on our life. We also have to work on our SLEEP ANXIETY. This is where our conscious or unconscious mind says "Oh no....another night of torture". Finally.....we have to be patient and keep working. Your mind/body will recover if you put in the work.
Best wishes to all!
Many of us suffer from chronic insomnia. I've wondered many times when I was suffering from it why I couldn't go to sleep. It felt like something was "broken" in my head....something wasn't working right. Well the answer to that is "Yes"....there is something broken. Acute, intermittent insomnia is very common but what I'm talking about is when insomnia is very SEVERE and you can't sleep at all or VERY LITTLE...over an extended period of time. I experienced this for about 5-6 months. Even with Ambien 10mg I could only get about 1-2 hours of sleep.
So.....ever wondered why you can't sleep even though you are seemingly doing all the right things? You are relaxed....you've read...you've taken a hot bath, you've taken your magnesium, melatonin and a host of other "natural" sleep enhancers.
Here is your answer: HPA axis over-stimulation due to chronic anxiety and stress. Depression can also cause this as well. Below is an excerpt from an article entitled "Chronic Stress And The HPA Axis". The section below discusses the impact of HPA axis dysfunction on sleep.
Basically...once our HPA axis becomes dysfunctional it gets stuck on hyperdrive until we stop "feeding it" and give it time to normalize again.
Sleep Disorders
During slow-wave sleep, cortisol release is normally suppressed by
a decrease in CRH and a rise in growth hormone (GH) secretion.
Exposure to chronic stressors results in abnormal HPA axis and
SNS activation and disruption of the normal diurnal pattern of
GH, CRH and ACTH release. he result is a paradoxical rise in
cortisol levels in the evening hours and initial phases of sleep.
A vicious cycle ensues whereby nocturnal hypercortisolism
causes sleep fragmentation, raising cortisol levels even further.
Insomnia and melancholic depression are frequently observed
consequences. he increasingly common Obstructive Sleep
Apnea syndrome (OSA) has also been recognized as a key cause
of HPA axis dysfunction. he hypoxemia induced by recurrent
obstruction to airlow causes pulsatile release of cortisol and sleep
fragmentation. It is believed that the OSA-induced disruptions in
the release of cortisol and other adrenal hormones promotes the
development of secondary metabolic syndrome, hypertension,
and inflammatory diseases invariably seen in these patients.
So what do we do to fix this?
1) First....the literature I have read indicates that it takes a considerable amount of time for the HPA axis to go "back to normal". I don't have a time-line for you.
2) Find healthy ways to process/cope with anxiety & stress. This is what caused the problem to begin with. If you cannot lower your stress/anxiety, then the HPA axis will not "heal". Psychotherapy can help with this.
3) Use CBT-I (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia). This help REDUCE your anxiety as it relates to SLEEP. This is widely documented on the internet...drug free....no need for doc appt.
4) Use a host of other relaxation techniques (mindfulness, guided imagery, progressive relaxation, hypnotherapy, etc).
5) Vitamins/Minerals/Diet - improve your diet and take supplements.
If you boil it down we all basically have to REALLY WORK on our anxiety/stress/depression - determining it's source and working on lowering its impact on our life. We also have to work on our SLEEP ANXIETY. This is where our conscious or unconscious mind says "Oh no....another night of torture". Finally.....we have to be patient and keep working. Your mind/body will recover if you put in the work.
Best wishes to all!
Adenosine triphosphate is created from ingesting ribose and Acetly l carnitine and protein.
From what I've read you are correct......to a degree. The model of sleep regulation encompasses sleep drive (adenosine as you noted) + sleep timing (circadian rhythm). Circadian rhythm (regarding sleep) relates to the brain chemicals that change allowing us to sleep better. I've also read in another book that the circadian rhythm part of this equation is referred to as the "alerting force". The "alerting force" is supposed to decrease in the late evening and start building up again near the end of our sleep.
This 2-part process works together. If we just had the sleep drive (adenosine) then we would find ourselves getting progressively more sleepy as the day goes on. This would impact our productivity and functioning markedly. The alerting force helps us to stay alert during the day and then go to sleep at night. This doesn't mean that someone can't sleep when the alerting force is strong. The sleep drive could be built up so much that is overpowers the alerting force.
I am not suggesting at all that you are incorrect that adenosine may be an issue for people or even all of us.
I just know that anxiety plays a huge role on the HPA axis, Amygdala and other parts of the brain. Treating ALL areas (including the supplements you mention) with behavioral therapy and other relaxation techniques are important in getting things back to a healthy state.
Now in saying this there are a few people who have idiopathic insomnia (usually from childhood) that persists their entire life without any known cause. I don't have a % to offer you but it is rare to have this but some people do. Most of us on this forum do not have idiopathic insomnia.
1) you scare yourself to death
2) you've depleted GABA, histadine, alc, or serotonin
So if you happen to be #2 and go see a doctor, you will get no where.
Even more funnier is that #1 chronically leads to #2. Then, you're really screwed because doctors are still trying to treat #1.
Doctors will never visit #2. Not that I've heard of anyways.
Whats the difference between serotonin and GABA? I take 5htp to replenish serotonin . what is GABA and what wouldone take to replenish that?
However, from experience, you really ought to just take b-complex.
If doctors suspect that you are low on GABA, they will prescribe anti-anxiety pills called BENZOs. Now, Benzos are interesting because, Benzos tell your brain to create GABA. It's great at first but as your Glutamin levels fall dangerously low, you become even more addicted to Benzos. At this point, without Benzos you will die. The best thing is to just not take Benzos to begin with.
I was addicted to Benzos once and I will never ever, ever, ever take them ever again.
Kavinace contains 4-amino-3-phenylbutyric acid and Taurine to help support inhibitory neurotransmitters. Taurine functions as an inhibitory amino acid, acts as a GABA agonist, may increase GABA synthesis, prevent GABA breakdown and block GABA reuptake. All of these effects enhance GABA function. 4-amino-3-phenylbutyric acid is a GABA derivative that agonizes GABA receptors and easily crosses the blood-brain barrier