Nice post. I've just began to (over the last week or so) to read your blogs. I'm sure this could spark a long response or what we called the great debate that started over myself and another member making a comment about forgiveness, and I wish that they had past posts or threads from a few years ago, But I do disagree with this part of your blog:


To deal with the guilt effectively required forgiveness from the one you offended. Until you received his forgiveness, guilt would tend to hang around, and healing of yourself from what you've done would not only be near impossible, but would be dragged into any future relationships. Not telling prevents any of that from happening. It is hard enough for unfaithful spouses to "forgive themselves" when their spouse knows and has forgiven them. It is near impossible when your spouse hasn't a clue about the damage inflicted upon them.

Oh boy, here we go..lol. I am hoping that I could be misunderstanding what you said here, so if I am off the mark with this I'm sorry, but Forgiveness has nothing to do with the one seeking it, and everything to do with the one it is being seeked from. (This is why I am wondering if I misunderstood because you are talking about the CS) I can imagine that it is heartbreaking for the CS to forgive themselves, but receiving that from the BS will not take away the guilt and shame no matter how much the BS forgives them. People have said things like if they forgive their partner, then it is saying what you did was ok, and allows them to do it again, with no consequences, so as long as they don't forgive them, then they can't be hurt again or they can continue to keep them on the short lease controlling as much as they can to keep safe. Because the CS wants (whatever their payoff it) and do as they are told, transparent, while begging for relief from the hurt spouse. I forgave my husband years ago, and the xwife, xgirlfriends, and so on. I remember after not speaking to each other because of their affair, my husband ex wife Trish and I ended up becoming friend. At the beginning we went out and I looked over and she was crying. I asked what was wrong and she with complete pain in her eyes and I know sincere "I am so sorry for what happened, it will never happen again. I never knew we would be friends, I didn't know he was lying and I should have known, will you ever forgive me. I told her I did years ago, and to not feel bad about it. I was grateful that it happened and I would not change any of it.. If I had to go threw it again, I wouldn't want the pain, but the only way we heal is when the pain is so intense we do anything. She asked how?? How can you just forgive something so painful, dishonest, disrespectful.. How can you let me and anyone off the hook so easy.. Nothing easy about it.. I told her (and him and all of them) that I did not do it for them, and I don't have the power for them to have forgiveness. It was up to them. I asked Trish how many nights she spent awake, sick to her stomach, unable to sleep yet no energy, nightmares, crying uncontrollably for house, having this intense unbearable heart pain?? I know mostlikley not one night, well I went threw them and it controlled my life. I don't even know where it came from, it was during meditation, that if I wanted to be rid of the pain I had to forgive, even if the person's actions seem unforgivable. It is like living in a cell with a small window dark and depressing for someone elses crime. My H (btw neither of them understand this, and I've said I don't have the control nor want it to make you feel anything you don't want to feel. Nobody makes you feel the way you do. 10% is what you can't control in your life 90% is what you do about it, and with it and how it will impact your life,) has made comments about someday if I forgive him.. I've said that was years ago. Just because I think of it time to time, or have a trigger, doesn't mean its not forgiveness.. It is up to the CS to find forgiveness within themselves. If they know it will not happen again, and are sitting in that, that is the only way they can find away to forgiving themselves, and if the marriage is not in jeopardy but would be if disclosed, I'm unsure if I think its a tell or not to. Mostlikley people know enough about each other to know if it would hurt or help if the probability of it happening again are very slom. I don't want to feel that pain ever again the day I found out about Paul and Trish, and I swore I never will again.. so far so good.. It is the greatest gift I can give to myself.
side note** just because I forgive doesn't mean I need to keep them in my life either, But I can not give them what they need to feel forgiven. Only they can, and I know I am worth not living the hell for someone actions.

Justtired,

Well, there was only so much I could cover in a short blog post. There are several roads to explore here.. I'll touch on them to give an overview. Some of this, like "self forgiveness" I plan on doing a separate blog post.

1) Forgiveness is the releasing of holding a debt and "pay back" for that debt due to an offense committed against you.

2) You are correct that some don't like to forgive because it gives them emotional leverage over another person they don't want to give up. However, that tends to foster a bitter attitude which can consume you and make your own life miserable. Forgiveness frees the offended from the hate and bitterness when sincere.

3) For the offended, forgiveness is often more about them than the one who hurt you, however, true forgiveness must sincerely be about releasing the offender from their debt to you. So in reality, you do it for yourself, but you do it for them as well. If it is not sincerely about forgiving the offense, it won't release you from bitterness. Ultimately, it is also about recognizing we are to love all people, even our enemies.

4) Forgiveness releases an offender from a real and valid debt. Therefore, forgiveness always means what they did was wrong and not acceptable. It was a release from the debt to repay you, not a declaration that what they did was okay or acceptable to do again.

5) Forgiveness is your personal release to be "paid back" for that debt, but does not dismiss the consequences. I forgave my wife. I still expected her to be transparent and all the other activities that go with having committed an affair. Not to repay me, but to heal the breach of trust so we could continue having a relationship into the future. No healing of that wound, no serious relationship could continue. Debt and wound are two different things and reconciled in different ways. You cannot forgive a wound to healing. That takes medicine.

6) What is often called "self-forgiveness" is in reality receiving forgiveness from another. People tend to confuse these. You cannot forgive yourself for something you didn't do to yourself. A CS might be angry with themselves for letting it happen, and there is an element of self-forgiveness in that, but a CS cannot forgive themselves for having an affair in behalf of the BS.

7) The harder issue for a CS experiencing guilt is to accept forgiveness and incorporate that reality into their lives. A guilt-ridden CS tends to not accept forgiveness so easily, for varied reasons. I forgave Gabi on dday, but it took her more than nine months to reach a place where she released her guilt and stop beating herself up in my behalf. Again, this is an issue in receiving forgiveness, not forgiving one's self. 9 times out of 10, that is really what a CS is referring to when they talk about self-forgiveness.

8) The BS is the one the affair offended. The CS is in debt to the BS for the damage he caused. So while the harder part is accepting forgiveness, that cannot happen until forgiveness is extended by the BS. That cannot happen until the BS knows about the affair.

IOW, until the BS knows, he can't forgive. Until the BS offers forgiveness, there is no forgiveness for the CS to receive. Until the CS struggles to receive forgiveness and does so, the guilt will remain and not ever be fully healed.

The CS cannot forgive themselves honestly if the BS remains in the dark about the wrong committed against him. Only the BS can offer the forgiveness that allows the CS to deal with his guilt. Because he primarily wronged the BS, not himself.

Therefore, for full healing to take place for the CS, telling is a necessity. Hope that more fully explains the context and meaning of that statement.

I so look forward to reading your posts, and I am one who likes the explanations, because I love to learn, and I appreciate you taking the time to write your truths they way you do. And never in an offensive way. Can you teach me that one..

I love how you put it a debt owned, or maybe a NSF payment for a debt that was promised, but didn't make a payment. Yes I do agree that the CS can not heal until the BS knows. I am a believer in telling the truth to the BS, but not the dirty details. As much as the BS has a yearning to know, that is trauma seeking.

So, it is possible for the BS to forgive the CS, and if the CS can not, has not, or just doesn't know how too forgive themselves, it is not up to the BS to help them to.. (?) But if the BS suspects that they CS has lied about an affair, they can start to work through that pain before the CS comes clean. My example:

I suspect my h had also cheated on me with xgf Dawn. When I found out about xwife Trish, I told him I believed he was with her too. He denied it, but I told him I was going to believe he did, while trying to heal from the pain of Trish, at the same time so when the truth comes out, I've already dealt with it and moved on. He continued to say he never did. A year later, I found out oh yes he did, and more then once over a few years. When I found out the truth, once again it was when him and I where doing good, getting close, and making progress. (That always seems to be when the I would find out, which makes it harder to leave) I knew for about 2 months before I told him I knew about it. I didn't know if I wanted to rock the boat, and because I did what I said I would the year before I debated if I should. I forgave him for something he didn't tell me, or come clean about, when I did find out it was true, I had forgiven him, not with just my words but my actions. Trish fell on hard times and I was able to have my husband, Trish, Their oldest daughter who is not the mother of the grandson, my son and myself all live together for awhile. I would leave them alone at the house and I never worried, even if something did happen, it was on them. I guess maybe away to heal and not have so much anger and pain and away for them to see the gift of letting it go.

All I know is I am the one that benefitted the most from it. I don't have guilt, shame, sleepless nights or live in the crazies, and for some resentments kill! All I can do for them is say Its forgiven, and live by example. I can't do the work for them, its hard enough for myself. I guess I am hoping that people will see how hanging on to it thinking they can punish, or control, and not become unstuck and continue to live in the pain, feeling hopeless, and worthless, It is true, if used as a weapon it does create a whole world of crazies, that is just a waste of energy. I do look forward to your blog on self forgiveness.

I hear so much about being a Christian, and living the Christian way, with the following finger pointing blame game, refusing to remember that Jesus died for our sins.. He asked the father to "forgive them" I am a spiritual person. I think religion is for people who don't want to go to hell, spirituality is for people who have already been there. To be Christian means to be Christ Like. Even if you do not believe in God or Jesus, they give great advise on how to live life on life terms. GOD G iving O thers D ignity.
Thank you again so much for your posts, I look forward to them, and I always love to hear others experience strength and hope.. Even if my post doesn't come across this way, I think we agree on most of this.

True, I think we mostly, if not all the way, agree on this stuff.

"I appreciate you taking the time to write your truths they way you do. And never in an offensive way. Can you teach me that one.."

Well, sort of a frame of mind. One, avoid becoming defensive (usually a result of low self esteem), and two, treat everyone with respect. Occasionally I don't succeed in doing those two, but that's what I try to practice, especially on the Internet where it becomes easy to treat each other as a faceless screen name rather than a real person on the other end with feelings and their own set of struggles and needs I know nothing about.

I try to write in a compassionate, way, but it is so hard on the internet. I am more effective in person. I am sometimes to intuned with the pain I know someone else is going threw, and I try to sound the way it is in my head, soothing and understanding, and compassionate. I am also a straight shoot from the hip person too. Up until recently my sincerity has not been attacked so negatively and out of context. I know I was out of line at one point, apologized, and forgiveness isn't in their thinking process yet. Which is sad.

Justired I like reading another who treatrd a suspected cs as a confirmed cs. I did that. Periodically I would tell my H in the heat of an argument that I believe with all my heart that he has cheated and one day he will tell me.

Only I didn't even come close to trying to forgive. Instead I acted like an angry scorned wife married to her capture. Like I was counting the days until I had the strength to leave.

I seperated years into my suspicions and that is what promoted him telling me EVERYTHING.

boy that was a long 3yr 3 mo ago. It's been quite a ride but we finally made it. If I couldn't find forgiveness for him, we would be divorced by now.

I did find forgiveness, I wanted to know how to rid of the pain I was going threw. I had suspected him an Dawn for awhile, and there are events that pretty much summed it up, that yes he was. But I did the fake it till I make it approach and I am grateful that I was able to find it. I've had my H state that it has been the worse punishment he has ever received. Knowledge that I have not been dishonest with him, that I was able to forgive him and them, still being there and separating myself, from those crazies. That I don't lose sleep, and I can be understanding yet, found a new assertive voice. I didn't do it as punishment, I don't want that kind of power and refuse to take it. I just wish there was harmony. There is to much hate and unaccountability, and forgiving someone seems impossible, but it is not. To let go of our heartbreak, and no longer be taken prisoner, that is what I've gotten from it.

Cole: You shared, "Most hurt spouses, overwhelmingly, are glad they discovered the truth, despite the hurt and the trauma. But I'm sure that number would go up significantly if it was about a former spouse. A relationship that is over and done with. Why waste emotional energy on discovering a former spouse was cheating? Personally, I don't think I would care to know at that point because I can see no practical benefit to me knowing. So I feel there would be a lot more hurt spouses who would rather not know if there was no chance to fix the marriage."

I know it was no waste of emotional energy for me to find the truth about my Xs behavior. He had continued to lie, even after I filed for divorce. He had accused me of divorcing him for no valid reason. He had attempted to create unsurity and guilt for wanting out. So, finding the truth, was a most incredible relief for me.

True, Sheen. Circumstances may make it desirable for some. I'm sure the % would go up on those who don't care to know after a divorce, but my how much is anyone's guess. And admittedly, I might feel different once in a particular set of circumstances. In any event, I'm sure there would still be a good number that would still want to know anyway.

Cole: Much as I attempt to understand why a person would not want to know, either before or after divorce, I can't. Either way, knowing the truth always seems good to me. I mean, just because there has been a divorce doesn't mean that there was nothing to learn from the factors during the marriage. I think that while I look at the marriage, I look at both sides if I can. So, missing one side really leaves a clouded issue in my mind. In my case, during my previous marriage, there was a string of lies a mile long, twelve years of them. So, knowing, finally, that all I suspected was true...and more...helped me understand that the problem wasn't something I created, or that there was something I necessarily needed to fix in me. Well, other than learning to listen to my intuition that something is wrong, and that something is deliberately hidden from view. I found the truth, even after the fact, to be the piece of the puzzling puzzle that was missing. Once I knew the truth, I was set free of wandering.