There is never an answer that is good enough. Cheaters come up with a lot of excuses and reasons. No one can be superman in a relationship. We are all going to get bored or feel lonely at times. So what, it won't kill you. It is selfishness and insecurity that makes people cheat on their partners. They wine ,they cry and they cheat. Someone has to be stable. Some people turn to open marriages, get divorced or stay and wonder if that person is being faithful or not.
Anything is possible and you need to decide what you want to do and just move forward. That's all we have, right? It just makes it harder on you to give him more attention than what he deserves. I know it's difficult but trust me, it would be the same if he were married to a beauty queen with a perfect body who fell at his feet with every beckon call. We all get temptations thrown our way but we all don't cheat. It's a personal decision. Only you can make up your mind about what you need to do. Can you forgive him or not?

I agree. One thing I have noticed - and I did this too - was that us betrayed spend a lot of time wondering about the details...when, where, who, how many times, etc...but we don't realize that those things don't matter, its that they DID. And the how means that something in them was missing that allowed them to make that decision. Some level of indifference or feeling that they aren't even doing anything wrong. Or if its a LTA, a level of surrender in the marriage/relationship and giving in to the other person.

Bump

How ? They are hollow inside.

all the answers to "why?" or "how?" are all based on the same premise:

"i cheated and i don't want to feel pain for it. i don't want to take responsibility for the intense hurt i have caused. i want to frame my situation as me being on some kind of "journey", or being in a "fog", or some other thing that can be someone, or something, else's fault."

f%&k you, cheaters. you don't get to have it all. most of you are very, very lucky that the person you cheated on in, in most cases, is a reasonable human being, you have already gotten away with it, and, more than likely, once you've finished your personal "healing journey", you'll have put it far enough behind you to do it all again.

I heard something recently ... to deal with pornography/infidelity issues you have to start with the CS's anger. Even if they seem like a fairly happy person its *always* there under the surface. That's what makes them feel entitled to whatever they want and it blocks out empathy for anyone else.

rockjaw, do you like cigars?

idk. i struggle w this daily at this point. right now, it seems to come down to his selfishness and low self esteem, imho.

my stbxh initially cheated w a woman who sat at one of his tables in a restaurant. he claims she hit on him and gave him her number. and said that once after we were arguing, he was drinking at a friend's house and gave into the temptation to talk to her. hmm, well even if this is true, i feel his low self esteem and his selfishness play into it. he chose to keep her phone number. and i'm sorry but i feel he was probably playing into her flirting w him in the first place. hell, i even wonder if he wasnt the one that started the flirting. he needs constant attention from others, regardless of who it is or what it is. also, i dont really know if he ran to her b/c we were having problems, or if he was pushing and picking at me so he'd have an excuse to run to her. for me, it's a whole chicken/egg scenario. either way, he needed and liked the attention from this strange woman. he lied to her about our marriage, from what she has said in the aftermath. he wanted to feel good about himself regardless of what it would do to me and/or my son. and i truly believe he may have thought that he could just replace me with her. i mean, after all, i have a baby. i am not giving him 110% of my time and attention anymore. he still got a lot of attention. i went w/o sleep so he could have his bands, his friends, his vices. he barely had to help w the baby, i work, i bring in most of the money. he still got sex whenever he wanted. but we did argue, especially when he wanted to take even more away from the family than what he already was doing. so in our situation, yeah, i feel he was able to justify it all out of his own selfishness, feeling that it is ok to meet whatever needs he has, whatever the cost..... he still feels sorry for himself to this day that he lives in a crappy unfurnished apartment, even though he chose to leave and has no money or assets..... whatever the story, when people tell what happened, i see selfishness and/or low-self esteem on the part of the cheaters.

lisalisa,

sorry - - - , i don't "get" the cigar question

rockjaw

Give me a break, Rockjaw is Brokennotforgood or whatever the hell his name was, when he made a big, dramatic exit from DS, then magically started posting again.

Dude, if you're gonna trying to be hard, then play hard. You write/post here and on the other Boards exactly like you always do.

Wow, I don't "defend infidelity" but based on the crap you say, and the nasty things you call your wife and other people's wives, something tells me being married to you wasn't a walk on the beach.

Ugh.

That's the question I ask myself every day. My ex finally admitted to his cheating over a year later! (Supposedly nothing happened again after that, except for when I left him for other reasons...then he got back with her). Anyway, I just keep asking myself, "how could he look me in the face and keep that a secret for so long?" I had questioned him about it a couple of times, even when we were doing marriage counseling, and he denied it every time. I mean, did he think I was stupid and I wouldn't find out the truth eventually? When I asked him why he said the same thing.."I was selfish and stupid." It's hard to see him the same way now, especially since I know what he is capable of now.

This is an old post I bumped. It was answered with so much time and thought by Gabrielle in her journal. She re-posted my "how" question with a link to her journal where she was kind enough to take the time to try to answer me.

I would suggest anybody willing to be open to civil communication with a cs on this board, that you click the link and read her answer.

TTM wrong

Happy, you should read, "Help! I'm in Love With a Narcissist!" That should help with your H's entitlement issues. Our stories are incredibly similar. Sorry you find yourself here. This book is the best one I have read regarding why my H is the way he is. And also, why I was attracted to him in the first place. Check it out on Amazon.com

I know this could be triggery. I am sorry if it was for anyone. I hope it may have helped in some small ways.


This is very interesting to me. I believe our subconscious mind works very very hard to give us what we want even if we know consciously that this is really not what we want. Even if what we want is really bad for us and we know it. I feel like this may be true. It may well reflect the feeling that I felt when I wanted my marriage to work after infidelity (on a grand scale) even though my conscious mind knows that Ill never again have what I wanted again. All the desire created by my subconscious mind will never be able to create that desire in reality.
Do you notice how hard your mind works to give you that dessert? How about a half a piece? Just a bite? This instead because it has less calories and more fiber? Yes, our mind works hard to make us happy even if it is working against us. Even if it will destroy us. Yes, it does seem like my mind works to want my marriage to workthat dessert. Even though I know that to indulge is unhealthy. And, likely, no matter what my subconscious may want, half a piece will just have to do, even though I might want more than that. My mind might well think that I could be happy with half a piece too, a half a marriage, but thats not likely at all is it? I only wanted a whole marriage, not half of one, but half of one is all Im ever going to get, no matter what I want now.

So it begins, whatever it is that entices us and begins to draw us in. It's flattering or fun, it seems innocent enough but it progresses. Perhaps we try to stop it a few times but the attempt is half hearted because deep down we don't want it to stop. Yes, it may be flattering that my H turns back toward me after the damage is done, it seems innocent enough. And, perhaps I try to stop entertaining futility a few times, half-heartedly, because deep down I want to believe that the marriage isnt ruined.
The addiction was to the adrenaline libido rush. So, maybe in my case it is an adrenaline rush too, of sorts. Maybe its something like love addiction? Or maybe because I dont believe in infidelity on any scale at all, its likely that I would only allow my libido rush to be aimed at my H and no other?
When the temptation comes to "cross the line" the battle begins in earnest. It's me against myself and the battles are dreadful and painful. Bloody wars, if you will. I don't want this to happen, but yes, I do. I want it to stop but I don't. I can't do this. I don't think I can stop it. I often feel that way too. When I think of attempting marriage after infidelity it is me against myself, and the battles are dreadful and painful. And, I wonder too, can I stop it?
I felt my mind working constantly, trying to convince me, trying to find a way. Reconfiguring my thinking. Building within me the ability to live a double life. Building walls and barriers and blockades. Compartmentalizing, as I've heard it described. I FELT all this happening. I was aware of it. I tried multiple times to stop it. I called the battle the battle of good girl, bad girl. At times I was not sure who was winning. My mind seems to work hard too, to convince me that theres a way to have what is already lost. I think that living together after infidelity has in its way created a double life for me too. The superficial surface life, and the real underlying double life of a love/hate relationship. And, I also have walls, barrier and blockades to certain thoughts in order to maintain the relationship that has been seriously altered. I often wonder if Im a bad girl for attempting to fool myself into thinking that good can come from evil.
So many things that were happening to me surprised me. This was all very new territory. I would NEVER EVER have considered myself capable of these things. It was very very out of character for me. I am the last person anyone who know me would have ever expected to do such a thing. This territory, where what is real, and what is unreal, become fused in so many ways is surprising to me too, new, out of character. And, I too may well be the last person anyone who knows me would even entertain such a far out idea. I know that living a half life, an altered life, a guarded life, is not a good thing. And, Ive never been an advocate for it. So, given that I have yet to do what my internal belief system dictates, it stands out in bold relief that I am not quite me anymore.
Almost from the beginning I had a 180 personality change. It was noticeable. The constant libido, feeling like a teenager. I was happy and energetic. I felt young. All my interests changed. I felt very flirty and man crazy. The battles I mentioned above were not constant. They happened during what I call "moments of clarity." And times when I got scared. In my case, that 180 personality change was noticeable too. Lack of libido, unhappy, apathetic, feeling old, lack of interest. And, I couldnt quite imagine ever wanting to engage in sex again. My battle isnt constant either, its like a pendulum swinging back and forth between what might be described as hope for change, and hopelessness, lethargy, discontent. I also get scared, that Im wasting whats left of my life now on futility.
The battles actually increased and got worse as I got closer to "crossing the line" and after the first few times I did cross it. Sometimes when I was alone working I would get very scared about what I was doing. I would feel sick and have near panic attacks. In those times I would call OM or text and "get over it" with my mind still trying to soothe me. I notice that the battles I find myself engaged in also have lines and barriers, and I find I sometimes cross over what my intellect tells me is best, into fantasy. I am also often scared about what Im doing. I sometimes feels sick, and did have intermittent panic attacks. I could only wish there was a text that could get me over it.
There was a moment, a very specific moment when I gave up the battle. I simply stopped fighting. After that I was about 95 percent into the double life. OM noticed that change. I felt no guilt after that. I just went with it. Bad girl had won. I kept my lives separate after that and did not allow myself to think about what I was doing anymore. I convinced myself that I was doing it. I was keeping both men happy. I was successfully having a spouse and a lover and I loved them both and it would be fine. I cant quite seem to give up the battle, just quite yet, though I feel it looming there inside me waiting for fruitation. I dont know how far I am into the double life of marriage after infidelity, but I suspect far too far. Is there some point to just go with it? The bad girl that hasnt lived to my own beliefs and norms? Is there a place where I convince myself that both my H and I can be happy? He can be happy without his ultimate thrill? And, I can be happy with what is left of the marriage?
To the best I can explain it that is HOW it happened. The mind, I have discovered, is a very complex machine. Reading back over this it kinda looks like I am blaming the mysterious subconscious mind for what happened. Ugh! No! In the end I am responsible. Every part of me. Conscious or subconscious. I am not a victim of anything or anybody. I am now responsible for the hard hard hard work that I am doing to rebuild myself and heal. I am utterly determined. I will never be the same person I was before. I don't want to be. I feel nearly the same, but from the other side of the coin. My mind is a very complex machine. And, I sometimes feel that I am at the verge of a deeper understanding of what it may be that I really need or want. I am responsible for what I choose to do now. Though I have been a victim, one who is unaware, I am no longer that. I too am responsible for the hard work that is required to rebuild myself and heal.
It seems to me that these thoughts are parallel to each other. One side of it lusting for another, the other lusting for the marriage. That seems far out of balance to me.