I am sure there are many out there that have done this successfully. I use to think I was one of them. I stuck it out with my CS a couple of years after he cheated. I had forgiven him. His was a one time thing, but it didn't matter in the end. I never saw him as the person I thought he was again. It was the lies in the end, ironically that made it where I just couldn't do it anymore! I actually forgave him for cheating. I know now it was more about him at the time than us. BUT the trust was shattered into a thousand pieces. THAT was the thing we never could get back because after that ANY lie, no matter how small would send us backward. Till one day I just no longer loved him the way I did.

The fact is this girl is STILL lying to you. Heck the only way you know any of the real facts is from talking to the OM! So if you are the kind of person that is ok with making a life with someone that can do that for that long and look you in the face every single day and lie to you, and still is in fact... then good luck. You will definitely need all you can get!

Before you do that though, make sure you ask yourself if you deserve better than that. And is you feeling you have settled for that worth it? I can promise you that getting through this is not a quick thing and it is soul sucking at times! My ex knew what he did was wrong. He is an alcoholic. Unfortunately that also required lies. I don't blame him to this day. Not for the lies or the cheating. BUT, I do deserve better. Only now, I REQUIRE better or want nothing. I would rather be alone every single day for the rest of my life than to spend a single day with someone I simply CANNOT trust!

^^ I second that.

What I'd like to know is what it feels like being the one that found out. And what do you think she could do to make it better for you? I need tips. I'm trying to win my husband back.

My question is: what is SHE going to do? is she willing to go total NO-contact with the OM (other man)? Is she willing to be transparent: give you access to all phones, emails, facebook accounts, etc, no means of communication that is private? Is she willing to go to counseling, individual and couples? Because I am sorry to say, but there is absolutely no way that you can do this on your own. She betrayed you, and sounds to still be betraying you. If she is not willing or able to do the things above, trust cannot be rebuilt. People who have successfully rebuilt will tell you, all of the above is needed or it will not work. If she is not willing/able to do all of the above, then as painful as it is to accept, you will not be able to rebuild. Accepting the loss of a relationship is like dealing with a death, you go through the grief process. And often as the betrayed, we get stuck in denial and bargaining because to us, it is such a shock, a slap in the face, and we want to find a way to get back to what we thought we had. Unfortunately, when someone lies to you that much for that long, they aren't really the person we thought they were. And it is tough to accept that. But we cannot change the cheater, as much as we may want to, they have to put in the work to do that themselves. It is normal to feel like you want to make it work. But you alone cannot make it work. The first step is to see what she is going to do, and to see if she is really going to follow through with what she promises. And if she is not, you will need to think about how long you are going to stay in this with things going on as they have been. Only you can decide that.

Thank you for the comments all. I fear much of the advice given here is more accurate than I want it to be... I know I am still in denial. I am still bargaining. I am still trying to get back something than never truly existed. I know this rationally but emotionally it seems impossible to accept.

Happymama2j -- the short answer to your question is yes she has been willing to submit to all of those things... all of the things I demanded and thought I was being unreasonably extreme to demand until I found this site and others which say it is normal and acceptable. That made me feel better. I have access to ALL of her accounts (that I know of). She has agreed to no contact... though she agreed to that before so how much can I trust that. She has submitted to more than that even... And to my observations she is legitimately trying harder than I have ever seen her try in the past. I don't know if it is good enough. I have so many doubts and insecurities and I don't see a viable end in sight. I feel VERY broken. I have started seeing a counselor... I started feeling like I wanted to hurt myself and realized that I was not going to make it through this on my own. I want to turn to her for support but that just doesn't function and ends up not being constructive... after so much "trickle truth" I do not know what I can believe... She is so defensive (NOT TO THE POINT SHE IS BLAMING ME) that we cannot have constructive conversations... She does not want to accept how bad the things she has done are. Both the affair and the things surrounding it for the years of our life that I was devoted to her and THOUGHT she was to me. I truly felt she was the type of love that I feared didn't exist. It feels like a little kid being handed the first place trophy, given time to brag about it and value himself for it... be proud of what he had and he achieved, only to have it snatched away by a laughing coach saying, "no, no, no... not you. This is for the good ones" I feel crushed. I am feeling hopeless. I am feeling petrified of losing my best friend and my lover. I am petrified of being alone.

Fighting for this is SO MUCH HARDER than I thought it would be. I am finding things about myself that I feel ashamed of. Things are coming out in my character that are foreign and disdainful. Things I never wanted to believe I could think, or say, or do...

I want to believe she is good enough, strong enough, to do the work to help us get through this. I believe she is giving it her very best effort. I am afraid her best effort is not good enough. I feel guilty for wanting to give up on her. I love her so much. I feel guilty for staying with her. I know it means I am weak. I did not see myself as weak. I don't like this weak version of myself.

Cheating4support -- I do not want to assume anything about your situation... I am sure every situation is different. I do not have answers for what works. I do know, now, from experience what doesn't, or hasn't worked for me.

- Accept that this is a long process: much longer and harder than I ever expected.
- Accept that you will NEVER know FOR SURE what happened (I do not believe KNOWING is achievable). Try not to become obsessed with it. I have failed in this and it has caused me more pain than I could imagine. I am not saying not to find a narrative... you probably need something... but find an acceptable point (for you) to stop. It is hypocritical to say this because I have not succeeded myself. At some point try to stop focusing on the past and instead focus on the future. (this seems impossible to me right now, though I know it would be better for me I cannot control my emotions)
- Avoid making comparisons. Avoid asking questions that will burn those questions into your mind. Once they are there... they are invasive to the point of being crippling.
- If you want to fight for your relationship, try not to seek advice from people who have been RECENTLY cheated on. Their emotions are too high and they can say hurtful things. I don't think they mean to be hurtful but they can be. Some of them seem to be unwilling to accept that someone might want to try to resolve and issue and I think emotionally take offense to that... idk... I have felt rejected by many of them.
- Find someone to talk to... Do not try to go through this on your own. I know that is why you are here. Just don't bear this on your own.
- Do not try to find the person who you thought you had a relationship with. That person does not exist. Try to accept who they actually are, not who you thought they were or wanted them to be.

I doubt any of this is helpful... I wish I could give you more constructive advice... This all hurts so bad. If you are feeling and gong through what I am... I feel for you. I wish I could help. I wouldn't want anyone to feel this. Anyone...

Cheating4support -- I reread your message... I am not accusing. It sounds like you are the one who cheated... is that the case? If so... I may be able to be more helpful.

What could she have done to make it better? Other than the obvious of not doing it...

--When I found out, when she could no longer hide it. She could have told the WHOLE TRUTH! All at once. I feel like my sense of the reality of our whole relationship is gone. I feel like I have no foundation. I feel like I do not know where the starting point even is for rebuilding. DO NOT TRICKLE the truth in. Let him know EVERYTHING even if it puts you at risk for not reconciling. If you don't, each new truth he finds out will reopen the wound AND add a new scar because of the continued loss of trust. Tell him the when, why, and how of EVERYTHING. The when it started and stopped is important because he can start to build a new realistic timeline of what his life was. Your version of reality is accurate... you knew the whole story... his is broken, shattered, he has no idea of what reality is. Help him put that back together... if you have messages or things that can prove what you say... share them. Give him access. This can and will hurt him but it will also start to REBUILD trust. Trust that you are not hiding ANYTHING from him. The why: he will be asking himself this question and doubting what he was doing wrong to drive you away... tell him the truth of how you feel. Do not blame him! This is how you CHOSE to solve the problem... be honest with him about why so he can address that however he needs to. The how: Tell him all your little tricks for how you hid it. Tell him ALL of it. This may give him SOME level of security that he will be able to see it coming next time. HELP HIM BUILD AN HONEST REAL NARATIVE OF WHAT HIS LIFE REALLY WAS!
- Tell him all the things you loved and love about him. Every chance you get. His ego is probably bruised beyond what most people can comprehend. But be honest... not make things up. Don't patronize him. Be honest, open, and intimate in your conversations.
- DONT TRY TO RUSH HIM. This process is SOOO much harder than I ever would have thought. I am an unnaturally forgiving person and even I am struggling. He will have to go through the stages of grief. Be there for him. MAKE HIM YOUR PRIORITY, for as long as it takes.
- Break all contact with ALL men that he does not approve (at least until he gets his footing again if not forever). Show him proof of all contact with ALL men. He will probably fear if you could do this once... why not again.
- Do NOT make promises you cannot keep. Each one is a new breach of trust.
- In the end this will be an issue of rebuilding trust... know that in everything you do. The loss of trust and security is the hardest thing by far.
- If you cannot do these things. Do him the favor of making the decision to leave him. Don't make him suffer through failure after failure... either make it up to him with 110% effort or leave him and let him deal with it.
- Take the time to truly look yourself in the mirror... to acknowledge the what, why, and how of what you did. If you are in denial about who you are... FACE IT! No matter how hard it is. You will not get better and this problem will NOT be solved if you cannot find, accept, and admit what your issue is.
- Do not expect equal treatment for a long time... I hate how self absorbed I am right now... I hate who I am becoming... I don't have the strength to hold myself up AND give her support. I am ashamed of that.
- DO NOT LET YOUR FRIENDS OR SUPPORT NETWORKS TELL YOU IT WAS OK! It was NOT, NOT, NOT ok. Your friends might try to help you make excuses as to why it was understandable. Make it clear to them you are not looking for that kind of support. Make it clear to them you are looking to be held accountable NOT coddled. Don't let them make you feel better about what you did. You should NOT feel better. You should feel ashamed. You should have to deal with that shame just like he has to deal with everything that was created because of it.

To take the edge off... I am emotional and do not have the time to reread what I wrote right now. I am not saying you do not have value as a person. I am not saying that it is unreasonable for you to make amends. I praise you for wanting to do the right thing. I hope for both of your sake you can make this work. I just want to be VERY clear how much work you are signing on for. If he is like me... it is going to be the hardest, longest, and most effort intensive thing you have ever done. If you cannot commit to actually following through... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not put him through the pain of rebuilding hope just to have those hopes dashed again.

James

Jgibby!!! Your post was amazing, I literally just cut and pasted to bring to my next therapy session with my CS, it lays out perfectly what is needed to repair us and why. A revelation. Thank you!!!!

James, sounds like you have a good idea of what needs to happen. Just reading your response to cheating4support sounds like you've read some of my stuff, because it is exactly the things I'd tell a CS along with the suggestion to read/listen to "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald.

On the issue of trust you mentioned, I'd say it can be rebuilt, but it does take time. I was probably relatively fast--partly because of my personality, larger part because of the way I approached it, and most largely because my wife did everything right, with only a handful of exceptions--and still I'd estimate it took me around 2 to 2.5 years before I felt I had a "working trust" level that it wasn't likely to happen again. It took around 3.5 to 4 years before I felt like things had settled down to a new normal that felt normal. That's with an ideal situation. Any trickle truth revelations, non-transparency, continued contact with the APs or even interaction of a flirty nature with other men would expand that time needed to rebuild trust even further, if it could be done at all. Like happymama said, if that kind of stuff keeps happening, healing won't happen. At some point, you'd have to make a decision on whether to cut your losses because the risk of continuing affairs is too great.

Note: some BSs simply can't get past it. Everyone is different. How I responded to it may not be how you would, even in an ideal situation. But the above should give you an idea of what a minimum time period would be. Most say at least two years. But I'll add this. If by about 3 to 6 months post dday, if my W hadn't been doing what she did, I'd been on the verge of cutting my losses. I dreaded that decision, and thankfully I didn't have to make it, but if she wasn't going to heal, I wasn't going to be willing to spend years in a relationship of non-intimacy due to continued lies and betrayal. Even Jesus says that destroys the bonds of marriage. No sense in pretending it is still there. I wouldn't have waited two years before giving up on her. Not because I don't love her, but because I do. You have to decide where your line will be drawn. But healing of trust can be accomplished, but it will take years, not months, even if your wife does everything right.

Cole50,
Yes, I have read some of your articles and so has my CS. They were very helpful to me, some of the most helpful I have found by far. Thank you very much for sharing them. Among other things, I read what you wrote on building a narrative and some of the links that were in that article. I believe that helped me be more at peace with myself for feeling so panicked about wanting a story. I have felt and feel like I am going a little out of my mind with the obsession to understand what happened. I still have not had a day where I don't feel like I have slipped into crisis/panic mode, but now I am actively recognizing when it is about to happen and trying to realize when the answers are worth chasing down vs. when they are just going to cause pain to no positive end.

Trickle truth has been a real problem for us, but I am finally at a point where I feel I can get some footing in what reality is. I do not believe my CS was trying to hurt me by keeping the truth back. I feel she was trying to protect me, I feel she was and is in denial, and I feel she was worried that if I found out the rest I would stop trying.

One of the interesting things I have found in her behavior is that she seems to feel I expect more SPECIFIC detail than I want. For example, when I ask “when”, I am not looking for the date and time. I am looking for a reasonable approximate...

I think she has been hiding behind the fact that she can't remember EXACT details. I don't think she is lying about not knowing the EXACT details, but I do feel she is consciously or subconsciously using it as a tool so she doesn't have to "lie" when she says she doesn't know and that is why she can’t tell me. The good news is I feel she is starting to understand that and that it is not helpful to hide things.

I have some hope and you helped me get there. So thank you very much.

Another major issue we are having is her defensiveness. I understand that I have been a part of that problem due to the dogged manner in which I have gone after information. I have not been subtle and I have not been gentle when I have caught her lying. Both her lies and her defensiveness are pretty major triggers for me.

I still have not found a functional solution to this issue. It is not an issue I can control and realizing that has helped a little.

What I have tried to do instead is just point out when I feel she is getting defensive and try and give her a chance to reset herself and focus on being constructive. I think the idea is good but I don’t think either of us have been overly successful at doing this. I am still being too blunt which just makes it harder for her to open up. As to the lying, I have tried to help her understand how bad it hurts and that that hurt is going to come at some point anyway and that I would rather just deal with it all at once than drag out the process. That still does not address the more general concept of lying to avoid confrontation… I do not approve of this as a social tactic and I fear this will not change in my CS.

Thank you again for your articles and thank you for your response.