Have you told him you feel alone? How could he make you feel better?

I'm very glad to hear that you have reconciled and recouped from his A. You may have forgiven him, but the memory of it, triggers one's survival instincts, and stops us from truly forgiving them, and moving forth. To forgive and forget is possible for misdemeanours perhaps, but felonies cause PTSD which can survive in your system for years. Returning to individual therapy to deal with the issue, may not be a bad idea. You may have dealt with the A during your IC, but perhaps now it's time to deal with you, and getting to a place where it doesn't haunt or cripple you.

It definitely changes you and your outlook on life. And those who have not been betrayed cannot grasp the enormity of it. And those who drove that car over the cliff, are dealing with the shame of it all. It would require a very big person with a lot of introspection to be able to understand and support a betrayed spouse's discombobulation.

You need to be your own partner and best friend, and be able to rely on yourself, family and friends for anything he cannot provide. Doing this has made me stronger, sadder perhaps, but if I stop thinking about the things I miss, and focus on the things I can do now, it seems to lessen the blow. The thoughts and feelings I once relished, are no longer on the menu, and it's up to you to recreate the recipe.

It's almost like going vegetarian or vegan when you've been a meat eater your entire life. You have to re-teach yourself how to go forth without the things you once relied on, and find enjoyment doing it. Once you can do this, the mind has a brilliant way of forgetting the old ways, and ushering in the new.

Wishing you well.

I spend the day drafting up a response which was deleted in a brief accidental key being hit. I'm so frustrated.

Here is a quick version.

I have spoken to him on how I feel. It wasnt as blunt as I put it in my post.

We have been together since 1999 and were married in 2008. His A happened in 2012. Looking back Our M was mediocre at best. Neither of us were deep emotional beings.

Counseling after his A allowed me to better understand myself, my husband and my children. I am in tune with my emotions. I am now an emotional creature. My H was remorseful and made great efforts to help fix the issues the A caused. I thought we were on track for a fabulous new M. We were given the clearance from our counselor that we should slowly eliminate our sessions (H didn't like going but went for my sake). Once we found a new norm, he slowly went back to his old normal. Beside the issues related to the A, he has mostly stayed the same. He wasn't very open or emotional then, nor is he now.

This emotional gap between the two of us is my cause for concern in our M. This has causes a shift in priorities. I don't expect him to change yet I don't know how to navigate a M where our priorities are so different.

You ask what could he do to make me feel better?

He often lacks supporting me becuase he doesnt seem to understand me. I want him to understand me and support me in the things are a priority to me.

Interesting post and great response Lenoire - as always.

This post cuts to the heart of my personal feelings on infidelity/betrayal and the long-term aftermath. It would seem that as inspiring as some stories are, like Cole50 and a few others, mostly the marriage after 4-5 years out and beyond take a turn much similar to yours isitjustme21. There is this "change" that happens and I believe it to be a little spiritual and physical. Something just HAPPENS. The view of life changes. The view of the world changes. The view of your spouse changes. And certainly the view of marriage changes. In some instances, that could be a change towards maturity. Towards understanding. But more likely, the change is heavily favored in sadness, depression, confusion, hopelessness. Even though one may progress, improve communication with their partner, strengthen their mind and physical being, and basically "grow", there is still this underlying "change" or feeling that permeates just below the surface, plaguing true happiness. This is my personal feeling and experience. And I believe there are numerous people that post here that concur. I have read it time and time again.

Solution: If you stay in your marriage/relationship, you most likely will always interact with the past in some form or fashion. It might be the sight of your partner, or a scene in a movie, or a comment from a relative, or a dream in the night. It's there, and like what was mentioned above, "forgiving" is possible, "forgetting" is not. So you live your life, maybe not acknowledging, but always knowing.

Alternatively, you can make change. Big change. Leave. Minus common bonds like children and family, simply cut the past out of your life. Appreciate the good that came out of it (children) but put blinders on and look straight ahead. Block out the bad, sever the past, and push ahead. Will it be painful? Hell yes. Way more of a painful impact then sticking with the marriage. But hopefully, more short-term. And with that, hopefully in time you'll have so much positive surrounding you, the bad past won't even matter to the degree it once did.

So, I see only those two options. Option 1 is like living with an illness and working hard to keep it at bay. This illness weakens your body, drags you down, but still, you live and hope and strive to conquer, because you have to. Option 2 is like surgery, cutting out the illness and hoping like hell you never see it return. Maybe you have a massive scar from this "surgery", but you're illness free and you move on with your head up high and a clean slate.

Sorry that this is depressing. I really would like you to hear from one that is much happier after the betrayal, and who has stayed together in the marriage. I would like for you to have THAT type of encouragement versus my dreary, life-sucking outlook. I believe some will agree with me though, while others will not. And that's ok. I'm just one of those who believe that you have but one life and it's not fair to you to live the remainder of it in doubt, sadness, pain. Whatever course you choose, give yourself a chance at finding a new happiness. A pure happiness. You deserve that.

Big Step, do you think any of that long lingering feeling of malaise has to do with our unrealistic preconceived notions about marriage? I don't mean that fidelity is unrealistic, but I suspect many long-term marriages are somewhat unfulfilling, even without the added burden of recovering from a major betrayal. We expect partners to make us okay somehow, and we resent them for the ways in which our lives don't turn out as planned. So yes, the dream of an ideal marriage is deader than dead after an affair, but would the next relationship have a totally different feel, say, 21 years down the line?

GravingGirl, YES! Excellent point and one I actually contemplated today, although I couldn't quite put it into words. I DO agree that we think that our marriage should be and will be - "perfect". Romantic starts, Martha Stewart-style family life in the middle, and "On Golden Pond" endings. But the humdrum drudgery of everyday living is overlooked. And thus, we become disenfranchised with the reality. And like you said, we become resentful that life with our partners is not everything we thought it would be. We theorize that it's somehow their fault. "They" didn't live up to making "my" life, "my" marriage, what I imagined it would be. Sometimes, it probably IS the other's fault. But usually, it's just high expectations that are supposed to last about 50 years or so. And it's just not realistic.

NO. The next relationship most likely will NOT be different 21 years down the road. From the humdrum drudgery of a stagnant, unfulfilling marriage, the AP may seem like the perfect fit. He or she may offer the excitement, the connection, the hope that is currently lacking. But chances are, if one were to go through "normal" courtship and marriage, things may turn out identical. Because, as you say, we have unrealistic expectations of life with one person.

And in my opinion, it's THAT knowledge that truly makes for a successful, long-lasting life together. Knowing oneself, accepting imperfections, and simply staying committed through every bump and pothole, are the ingredients to sustainability. That's not to be confused with genuine happiness. Longevity is not the same as happiness.

I envy those rare unions where both partners are genuinely happy and true soulmates to each other. It happens. And they are lucky.

I didn't think your response was dreary BigStep, it was insightful and realistic.

Our wants and desires, and how we define happiness and contentment, designs the road we set upon. Some live their lives in comparison to others, imagining, assuming and wanting. While others put on their blinders and learn to concentrate on and appreciate what's directly in front of them. They take what they have and grow their garden.

Whenever one feels like the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it is, as they've let theirs go brown. This is what happens when we rely on others to water our lawn.

Making our grass grow as green as the hills, that provides fruits of plenty, is in our own hands. Our spouses, family, and friends compliment our lives, and it is up to us, to keep it complete.

I dont disagree that some marital issues stem from unrealitic expectations. Unfortunately I don't think i had any when we were first married.

I expected that once we were in a good place things would become easy.

One thing I learned from C is that a bad marriage and good marriage is exhausting. I decided after DDay that I would expend my best efforts towards a good marriage on a regular basis. I have no expectations of a perfect marriage. I think my H mindset is still that if we are in a good place he can coast so the efforts lesson. I have my bad days, far from perfect. I just expect more effort consistently, which I don't get.

You cant have a successful marriage if one or both of you don't think it's obtainable.

I'm not sure I understand what the efforts are that you refer to, that you'd like to see more consistently, or what you mean by "things would become easy," once you were in a good place.

There are two main paths that a couple needs to travel for a successful rebuilding.

The first is obvious and discussed here regularly. The CS needs to regain trust by being fully transparent, no contact with the AP(s), and address the reasons within themselves as to why they've done this so as to change the dynamic that led them to violate that trust. This takes years to "fix", not months.

But the second is also extremely important. The couple needs to start learning to love one another again, and make the other feel loved. The BS isn't likely to be ready to do that within the first month or three after dday, but at some point that needs to happen.

That's because rebuilding is a lot of painful work. If you successfully "get past" the affair trauma and get back on an even keel while staying together successfully, but it doesn't feel like the marriage is in any better shape than it was before dday, the BS, and maybe the CS, will question whether all the work was worth it. The marriage has to grow and end up better than before so you can say, "it was hard, and I lost a lot because of the affair, but I also gained some good things; we have a better though more realistic, relationship than we did pre-dday."

Additionally, if both spouses have a sense of renewed romantic love for each other and demonstrate that to each other effectively, it acts like oil to the rebuilding engine. It is much easier to get past the devastation when you sense that you're spouse really does love you, and for the CS to do the hard task of changing the core of how they respond to relationships to ensure they don't go there again.

Without also making the marriage better, which also requires a 100% commitment from both spouses to accomplish, you either end up in divorced or put up with a crippled relationship.

I'd recommend visiting the Marriage Builder's Site:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/index.html

Study up on this--a key book is "His Needs, Her Needs"--and then approach your spouse how you are feeling, without being accusatory, and that this needs to be addressed if the marriage is going to survive.

If he doesn't take that seriously. Go the next step. Visit a lawyer and initiate a separation. When that happens, he may start taking you seriously and come to the table and be willing to do what it takes to make the marriage better.

After a period of time passes and he's still not responding, then you may need to consider divorce if you want to give up on him because it's not happening and you don't want to live like this anymore. Or raise the kids in that kind of toxic environment. They learn how to relate to their spouses by how their parents do. If you H doesn't respond to make you feel loved and cherished, it may be one of the best things you can do for your kids to find one where that does happen.

But I think that is the main reason my wife and I are happy today, 5 years after dday. She not only did all she needed to do to regain my trust over the years, but we both learned how to show the other our love for each other so that we each feel loved, and our relationship is better than its ever been.

That sounds like the missing component for you. Question is, are you ready to force the issue, and will he buy a clue and respond positively?

I actually think I remember you! I use to be on here a lot too. But stopped after a couple of years post A. I am sorry to say that while I did forgive the cheating. I never again was able to trust him fully. Unfortunately he is an alcoholic. They lie too and the betrayal from cheating is a gigantic rip in the fabric of your relationship. But it cant fully mend if there are little tears happening on a regular basis. Every time he lied it just set me back to a point where I no longer loved him like I did.

When I left, a gigantic weight lifted off my shoulders! I have never been happier since. I finally know that I deserve better and am unwilling to EVER settle again for ANY reason!

After I left him finally he asked me if it was the cheating that caused me to leave. I told him it was, but not because I couldn't forgive him cheating. I did.. but it changed me and changed the way I saw him. It just made any other betrayal, no matter how small something I could no longer live with regularly. That I cared about him, but if you continuously rip at the love a person has for you, eventually it is damaged beyond repair. Because they can no longer RESPECT you. Once you lose that, its very hard to get back. Killing the love someone has for you, especially when it is a deep love, that is a hard thing to do. It takes time. It usually takes a LOT of things to do it. ONE betrayal.. can possibly be healed. But a thousand little ones can't.