Incest Survivors Support Group
Incest refers to any sexual activity between closely related persons that is illegal or socially taboo. Consensual adult incest is very rare. Incest between adults and prepubescent or adolescent children is a form of child sexual abuse that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood trauma. If you or a loved one is a survivor of incest, join the group...
Just read from another post about how brazen their perp was, having risk getting caught by others in another room. I have wondered about this in the past, and wondered "how many others had perps that really risked it all to get satisfaction or take more of our dignity away.
My second abuser, my uncle, and how brazen some of these perps can be. We had a small immediate family, large extended, with it being nothing for 50 people to show up at my Grandmother's for special occasions. One Christmas the family had gathered, about or so of us. My uncle has been molesting me for about 2 years at that so I was around 15 or so (I think, those years blurred together a lot). I remember we had all gathered around the table for the family blessing, and I would still be seated with the other younger members (kid's tables so to speak) As several members were still filing in I remember feeling something pressed up against my backside; I turned around and there he was, literally pressing his crotch against my ass. He was somewhat aroused I could tell and people were RIGHT UP AGAINST us - close together, but not THAT close. I moved forward and he moved forward. I moved further forward and he kept moving with me. Finally I was up against the table and another family member told me to step back. I was frozen, as there was no other two people in the room "glued" together like us. His wife was just staring at me with hatred in her eyes. I knew she knew, but refused to do anything. Finally, my Mother grabbed my arm and pulled me toward her, saying "come over by me"; she was oblivious to what abuse was or that another man could even be sexially excited my other males. (She was very sheltered in her early life). I just can't forget how he basically molested me in front of the entire family, but he was such a passive, easy spoken man that no one would have suspected he could hurt anyone, with exception perhaps of his wife.
Another instance of such was when I drove my mother and grandmother to visit his family several states away; I tried to get out of doing it, but Mom and Grandma refused to take no for an answer as I was not working and they really wanted to go see a new grandbaby. One night He, his wife, my mother and I were sitting at the table and he started playing "footsey" with me under the table; I scooted away from him, and he started stretching out his legs to still rub my leg under the table. I moved further, he stretched further. Finally his wife looked under the table and asked why he was doing this. He said he had a leg cramp starting and that he was "just stretching his legs". Finally, I got a migraine and left the table. Later that night he snuck in my cousin's room where I was sleeping next to his son. I told him NO, but he was worse in his persistence. I was tried to wake my cousin, but he was a very deep sleeper - he fell out of bed once and slept right through hitting the floor. No matter how hard I shoved and even pinched him, he snored right through it. His father started to feel me up and again I said NO, but he continued. The room was a basement room and pitch black. Since he liked to talk while he was molesting me I judged where his head was, and then calculated where his crotch was. I took my right leg and wanted to kick him in the nuts, but instead I ended up catching him so fully in the crotch I lifted him off the floor and kicked him about 8 feet back onto the floor. He sort of groaned and at that instant the light came on, his wife was at the top of the staircase and immediately asked what was going on. He said he had gotten up to get a drink of H2O and heard me yelling in my sleep so he came down to wake me up. My only response was "You will never need to do that again!" - and yet several years later, after he left his family to live an openly gay life he showed up at my own home and tried to start something with my partner and his son RIGHT THERE. I asked him if he wanted to die and they left. I had taken some of my power back by that time and was not going to ever let anyone do that again.
Sorry this turned out to be so long, but I really wanted to stick it out there and see if other perps were this brazen with other members here.
Thanks for reading.
My second abuser, my uncle, and how brazen some of these perps can be. We had a small immediate family, large extended, with it being nothing for 50 people to show up at my Grandmother's for special occasions. One Christmas the family had gathered, about or so of us. My uncle has been molesting me for about 2 years at that so I was around 15 or so (I think, those years blurred together a lot). I remember we had all gathered around the table for the family blessing, and I would still be seated with the other younger members (kid's tables so to speak) As several members were still filing in I remember feeling something pressed up against my backside; I turned around and there he was, literally pressing his crotch against my ass. He was somewhat aroused I could tell and people were RIGHT UP AGAINST us - close together, but not THAT close. I moved forward and he moved forward. I moved further forward and he kept moving with me. Finally I was up against the table and another family member told me to step back. I was frozen, as there was no other two people in the room "glued" together like us. His wife was just staring at me with hatred in her eyes. I knew she knew, but refused to do anything. Finally, my Mother grabbed my arm and pulled me toward her, saying "come over by me"; she was oblivious to what abuse was or that another man could even be sexially excited my other males. (She was very sheltered in her early life). I just can't forget how he basically molested me in front of the entire family, but he was such a passive, easy spoken man that no one would have suspected he could hurt anyone, with exception perhaps of his wife.
Another instance of such was when I drove my mother and grandmother to visit his family several states away; I tried to get out of doing it, but Mom and Grandma refused to take no for an answer as I was not working and they really wanted to go see a new grandbaby. One night He, his wife, my mother and I were sitting at the table and he started playing "footsey" with me under the table; I scooted away from him, and he started stretching out his legs to still rub my leg under the table. I moved further, he stretched further. Finally his wife looked under the table and asked why he was doing this. He said he had a leg cramp starting and that he was "just stretching his legs". Finally, I got a migraine and left the table. Later that night he snuck in my cousin's room where I was sleeping next to his son. I told him NO, but he was worse in his persistence. I was tried to wake my cousin, but he was a very deep sleeper - he fell out of bed once and slept right through hitting the floor. No matter how hard I shoved and even pinched him, he snored right through it. His father started to feel me up and again I said NO, but he continued. The room was a basement room and pitch black. Since he liked to talk while he was molesting me I judged where his head was, and then calculated where his crotch was. I took my right leg and wanted to kick him in the nuts, but instead I ended up catching him so fully in the crotch I lifted him off the floor and kicked him about 8 feet back onto the floor. He sort of groaned and at that instant the light came on, his wife was at the top of the staircase and immediately asked what was going on. He said he had gotten up to get a drink of H2O and heard me yelling in my sleep so he came down to wake me up. My only response was "You will never need to do that again!" - and yet several years later, after he left his family to live an openly gay life he showed up at my own home and tried to start something with my partner and his son RIGHT THERE. I asked him if he wanted to die and they left. I had taken some of my power back by that time and was not going to ever let anyone do that again.
Sorry this turned out to be so long, but I really wanted to stick it out there and see if other perps were this brazen with other members here.
Thanks for reading.
I understand your disbelief in some of my statements; not ALL of my family were oblivious, of that I am aware. I am certain that this perps wife KNEW what was going on and tried to use me as "bait" to be able to find a reason to divorce him; one of my other uncles had been molested by this man, I later found out. This was in 1973-74, somewhere in that time period, and silence was a basic rule when it came to sex in my family. This was also in rural Midwest, pretty typical Bible Belt family in our area. But my Mother and one of her sister's were pretty naive when it came to sex; Once, just a decade before we were at the zoo, when my aunt saw two Galapagos Turtles were mating and she yelled to the kids to "come see the turtles giving each other piggy-back rides" Same trip she yelled for the kids to see the monkey play patty-cake, which turned out to be a masturbating male. When my Dad and Uncle-in-law whispered to her what was actually going on we had to leave as she was practically hysterical that the Zoo would allow such. There are true innocents in the world, and when you are the product of such, unfortunately in my family it allowed molestation to occur.
When I told my Mother what had occurred to me, in the early 1980's she cried for about 6-7 weeks when I walked in the room, and just repeated over and over "I failed you - my job was to care for and protect you, but I failed". It was a very difficult time and I really don't think she ever got over it.
But I know that some of of my abuser's never touched me, they just suspected, or KNEW and remained quiet, allowing the abuse to continue. But, secrecy was the name of the game at the time, at least in our area. And I protected them, for as a child I believed that it was MY fault. It was MANY years later that I found that there were other victim's of my abusers.
I appreciate your response and I think there is another element to being molested in front of others or so openly; it really makes you feel even more insignificant or invisible doesn't it?
Both of my sexual abusers are now dead - one took his own life (cousin), the other died of HIV following his divorce (uncle). His wife and I have not been on good terms since she used me as bait.
Believe it or not, there was a time of innocence in this nation, and at times, it was great, but the drawbacks were just such instances as this.
I have been in groups, one on one therapy, etc, and had never heard that much of whether other's abuse was that "blatant".
As a result, when my girls were little, no only did they NOT sit in any mens laps (other than my husband) but they always had to wear two layers of clothes under their dresses. Their panties and shorts "so they would not show anyone thier panties". I am fairly comfortable in saying that my kids were never a victim of sexual assault or child abuse.
In many ways this was a dangerous time for victim's, but it also was so carefree and less stressful. People were people, not objects and there was more basic respect shown to others.
Times have changed soooo much and now I feel like a dinosaur (ha)! But I treasure that innocence and feel it is a shame that some will never know that type of freedom.
A very dangerous time for victims. This was my mommas generation. She was a victim herself. In her raising - they were taught that "we dont talk about things like that"
That is why - when I spoke about what was happening to me to my grandmother years before a hwy patrolman came and rescued me, her exact words were "Shhhh, now honey, we dont talk about things like that." She was a very religious and god fearing woman. I once asked her after hearing the word on the bus , "Grandma, what is Rape?" and she pretended I said rake after I stressed the P a few times. She still refused to acknowledge what I had actually asked. It was taboo for anything even remotely be brought up. I am so glad now that we are educated on how to avoid things like this and how to protect our children. I think that is why sex criminals used to be so brazen. Now they are more guarded I think. Kids are taught what to do and to always tell someone. Unfortunately I think this is alway why a lot of child victims do not live to tell it too.
I feel your pain about trying to talk about it with a relative who said "shhhh - we don't talk about that!" - once my Mom got over the initial shock of me telling her, we buried it in secrecy, in order to "protect the family"; I hate to think about how this hurt, but now I better understand. She had no tools to work with, for as I said she and many of her era were so naive. I am glad you protected your children so well, and it sound like you have handled your family in general very well.
I wish you support and increased strength - it does get better, but it can also be hard to do it alone.
Why does every post have a reminder to be nice? Is that a problem here?
I ran.
Mom didn't believe my 4-year-old explanation, she thought he must have been cleaning the gun...O.o
The year after that she showed me the guys' picture in the newspaper, under the headline "Man sentenced for child molestation."
The guy in those apartments that succeeded in getting me into his apartment to abuse me though?
WHY did nobody see this guy as a creep?
He was an older man, living alone, but happily babysat kids, let kids come into his apartment freely to see his spiders and rats, had no job, had no adult girlfriend, and worked as a photographer...
He might as well have had a neon sign in his window blinking PE-DO, PE-DO...
My grandma moved in with us...and it was only then that she found out, freaked out, and told my mom, that I was sleeping in Dad's bed every night.
hylierandom: I told my mother when I was 17 that my uncle was molesting me. I told her point blank that he had raped me. She told me I was mistaken, as he was most likely just trying to find a friend in the family as he was often the outsider and disliked by others. I was stunned and just walked away feeling re-abused. Two days later I confronted her about her remarks and she denied that I had told her he molested me. stating I said he had just gotten "too close" to me. Her mind was totally unable to hear what I was saying as it blew her reality totally away. She thought she had protected her children well and that this uncle was "to be pitied, not shunned". But, once she understood what I was saying, once she allowed herself to hear it exactly as I was saying it, there could be no doubt. She started to move to have him arrested, but I stopped her, asking her what good would it do and how it would embarrass me. etc. She did not do anything, at my request, and he moved across the country following his divorce. I think my mother may have told his wife what had happened, without my knowledge as out of nowhere she divorced him and kicked him out. Now this was years ago as I have said before, when families "took care of their own" - there was no such thing as a Dept. of Child and Family services and the police often told people to "take care" of such problems themselves, as this was considered a social embarrassment also,looking as if the entire family was pedophiles.
It is hard to say why families chose not to believe victim's - and being told "it did not happen" or "it wasn't that bad" just places undue blame on the person who deserves it the least, the child. It took me decades to understand my Mom's reaction, but I do understand it now, and I hope that one day you will find peace with this. Some parent's just don't want such to have occurred and if the child recants or states they were lying, then the parent has not failed to protect them and they are then blameless.
I hope that you can work through this - we are all capable of making mistakes, out parent's included. Some of those mistakes lead to devastating consequences, but eventually we have to understand that the past is irretrievable and unchangeable. But our feelings and understanding of that time is changeable.
Peace and sorry for "rambling"
Refuse2quit
Annie...kudos for protecting your kids. Regarding the "reminders to be nice" I've been on DS many year and during the time here have seen a number of all out fights (insults, sarcasm etc go in to where some people left DS because of the negativity was so upsetting to them...one person I used to talk to some had her account closed twice due to her behavior. You wouldn't think reminders to be "nice" would be needed but we're all wounded people and words on a screen don't allow the readers to hear "inflection, tone or to see body language...and some are very sensitive and can and do easily take offense to something that may well have not meant to offend. So yeah, it has been a problem at times in the past.
Lastly, in the past for many reasons it was in some ways more dangerous for children because they were less informed and abusers could be more brazen because sexual abuse wasn't talked about like it is today and children were less inclined to tell because of an almost collection denial in society ....with adults even less inclined to believe the children than today.
On the other hand and not talked about nearly enough IMO, in other ways, it's more difficult today despite children being better informed because too many children today lose their innocence much younger and are almost forced to grow up faster than in past due to...often a lack of appropriate parental monitoring and supervision in terms of technology both Internet and TV that is exposing them to sexual tinged if not explicit messages, images and content far too advanced for preteen or teens, in addition in recent years more and more businesses (ie clothing businesses and others) marketing clothing typically designed for late teens and women such as thongs and other provocative apparel to preteens and even younger children.... it seems to me whether consciously and purposeful or not, society has been complicit in allowing our youth to be much more sexualized than at any other time in the past. Thus, many children live in a far more dangerous and confusing world of mixed messages. I might add, even better informed, children are children and based on self esteem, tempermant and other factors, many children are as reluctant and hesitant to tell as in the past.
Boy this is the first post I've written that truly tore a piece out of me, Still have some more hard work to do. Oh Yeah