Ranges:

(TSH 0.27-4.20)

(FT3 2.0-4.4)

(FT4 0.93-1.70)

Hi there,
Interesting how you Ft3 and Ft4 are going down, kind of the same thing that happened to me right around the same months as you. Has your doctor increased your Armour? That is what is necessary at this point. Most peopel feel best with the Frees in the upper 75% of the ranges. I know I felt a hell of allot better when my Ft3 was in that range, but it took a bizzare dip recently and I too suffer many of the same exact symptoms you do off and on aside from the teeth and gum issues. Also, depending on what climate you live in, most people need an increase in the fall/winter regardless.

Hi Helerown, thanks for writing. Yes! Isn't it weird my T3 and T4 have gone down, and not upwards? I am new to all of this. I have been on Nature-Throid since beginning of August. I started at 32.5 and then up to 65, now I'm on 97.5mg. I always get bad symptoms when I increase my dose, but this last increase really seemed to bring on the heart palps. Not fun!! Right this minute it isn't too bad, but off/on during the day I get them.

I don't know if there is any truth to this at all, but could it be that as we adjust to the new hormones in our system, sometimes our T3 and T4 go down while our TSH is also going down, at least for a while until we get closer to optimized?

In my case, I started with a TSH on 9.67, but my Frees were not tested at the time. After 6 weeks on a low dose on levothyroxine, during which I had worse hypo symptoms than ever before, my TSH dropped to 4.45 (still WAY too high, but a significant drop nonetheless) but my Frees are a bit on the low side within the ranges. My thought is that with a lower TSH, my body is working less hard to squeeze out every bit of thyroid hormone it can, but there still isn't enough there overall. A higher TSH would mean it is working harder, which is not good, but might mean it's squeezing a bit more out of it. By increasing your dose you should eventually get to the point where your body is not having to work to get all the hormones out of your thyroid (aka when your TSH nears 0) and then you should be able to see more clearly what you still need in terms of T4 and T3. Which isn't to say you shouldn't pay attention to those numbers in the meantime, because they still go a long way in 1. explaining why you feel lousy and 2. showing you to what extent you are converting T4 into T3, which of course is important in deciding how to treat.

On the other hand I could be completely making this up, so don't take it as any kind of advice, just my own ponderings into how these things might work.

I was beyond thrilled to read scrivener's take on this because it's *exactly* what happens when we first start taking thyroid hormone replacement.....and what will happen when our levels start nearing optimal.

It makes so much sense yet this seems to elude many doctors.

Oh good, so I'm not crazy :)

Is everyone (or anyone) here diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis? I'm guessing it makes a big difference if HT is the cause, in how the body responds to the treatment.

Don't know about JeepGirl, but I was diagnosed with Hasimoto's. Both my TPO and anti-thyroglobulin antibodies were very high.

My antibodies are very high too.. Off the charts at my endo's lab.
I know when I was taking Synthroid my TSH would fluctuate higher even when taking a higher dose..(I started with a TSH of 14) so with hashi's it's so erratic!
I now take Armour.. my TSH is lower now..on the same dose.even though my endo still doesn't ike a TSH below 1 as he feels uncomfortable with it..regardless naturally of how I feel!

I am not diagnosed with Hashimoto's. I don't have antibodies but I do have hypothyroidism. I think most people- over 90%- do have Hashimoto's.

I think FernRL might be onto something in regards to Hashi's making a difference in response to treatment.

It seems that getting TSH to decrease can be a project itself and then optimizing levels is, as everyone knows, quite the challenge.

I joined the 20% of Graves' patients who go hypo after remission. My Graves' blocking antibodies not only block the production of thyroid hormone but, they suppress TSH.

I also have antibodies that can stimulate the thyroid to produce hormone but they don't seem too active at all.

Even though I started thyroid hormone replacement with a suppressed TSH (.019), it still took 15 months to get to optimal levels that would "stick".

And, due to my somewhat erratic thyroid function and/or the changing needs of my body, my doctor has had to do small dose adjustments every 3 months to keep my levels optimal.

No, I haven't been told I have Hashi's.

Thank you all for your replies and thoughts on my labs. I've only been on Nature-Throid 3.5 months. But I have family/friends that just don't understand why I'm still feeling so terrible. Like I like feeling so awful!!

Hope each of you have a nice weekend

Icetheblogger: YEAH! GREAT explanation of what happens!!!!

Jeepgirl: You most probably DO have Hashi's. That's what *most* hypothyroid patients have. The others are hypo due to cancer and subsequent removal of the thyroid or a rare brain disorder.

Hope you feel better soon.

My husband was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 2011, but has never had his antibodies tested. His case is pretty straightforward: High TSH so he gets Levothyroxine. He notices no change in taking his medication, and has occasionally forgotten it. He's on 50 mcg and hasn't needed a dose change since at the beginning of his diagnosis.

The only thing I can say is that it seems like his heart failure may have been due, in part, to low thyroid, and that having Levothyroxine has helped his heart function. The only symptom changes I have noticed in him, besides fluid retention, is sensitivity to the heat for a long time prior to his diagnosis, changing to being sensitive to the cold like me in the early days of his treatment, then becoming less tolerant of the heat again.

The reason I thought Hashi's makes a difference, is because I know it works by destroying the thyroid, so it seems like there would be less of an effect when the TSH tries to get the thyroid to produce more hormones.

Also I think the autoimmune attack, itself, can cause some of the fatigue and other symptoms of hypothyroidism, causing the thyroid to go into emergency functioning mode, ie low functioning "low T3 syndrome" called nti (non-thyroidal illness), which makes a person feel worse, which will both stimulate the autoimmune attack and the nti, in a vicious cycle. That is only my opinion, of course.

I just know that the Endos clearly do NOT accept that the autoimmune attack affects the TSH except indirectly as a result of the feedback from the thyroid hormones. But there is some evidence that the nti will lower the TSH, possibly through excess rT3 instead of FT3.