Yeah, it started up for a little bit but nothing lately. I'm doing OK, slowly taking the first steps toward launching a website devoted to sibling sexual abuse. Healing is still one step forward two steps back--or actually more like taking a bunch of steps, working really hard, then ending up back in the same place again--but it looks a little different each time I come back so I guess you can call that progress.

How are you?

That sounds great. I wish I could also help families going through the same but if I did the secret would be out, and I’m not there yet. You are very strong to do that and I think it’s amazing!
My progress sounds much like yours. Step ahead then back... sentencing for my son is May 7th. We are all just waiting... it’s very stressful for the kids. My son has definitely been better with us (family) over the last week. It’s been very challenging since he pretty much cut us out. My husband and I went to his apartment to talk to him about it. He broke down saying he misses us but it just hurts to much to see us because it reminds him how he’s ruined out family. It was a very emotional talk with much crying. We all are really just needing this sentencing to be over so we can move on and start healing. It’s mentally exhausting. My son and myself both started a prescription and seem to be doing well on it. My daughter has been in his for quite some time. I Don’t have so many sad moments and cries so that’s a bonus, and he seems a bit better as well. I’m glad about the website. There needs to be something for us to go. Proud of you! Keep plugging ahead and look forward to updates!

I'm going to use a pseudonym if I put my name on the site--I'm not planning to "come out" with my real identity.

That's so sad the way your son feels. I miss my son so much and the closeness we used to have. He barely keeps in touch, He says I'm toxic and triggering but I really wonder how much of his own shame is in there too.

I’m sorry to hear your son is withdrawn from you. That I found was one of the hardest things to deal with. I am trying my best to try to convince mine that he matters, as he is on a downward spiral of dropping out of schools, smoking marijuana and drinking. He feels there’s nothing for him so why try. It is heartbreaking. I guess when you’re young and have this looming over you it’s hard to see past it. Would your son be willing to do counselling with you? How is he with the rest of your family? You know it’s weird, I never forget how my daughter feels but it’s almost like she’s pushed to the side while I try to get my son on track. I find it frustrating since he’s already taken so much from us that I feel he should be my last priority, but it’s the opposite. It’s a struggle to keep them both on track without going down a dark path myself. Again just need court to be over so we can heal.

Hello Moms, I'm new to the group. We have 3 sons and 3 daughters (all now young adults ages 20-30). Our family has not been together for several years. One son was incarcerated 2 yrs. for possession of child pornography. Before probation was complete, our daughter disclosed that a different brother had sexually abused her when they were 10 and 14. It lasted for a year or two. At the same time of that disclosure, our third son was caught filming a different daughter while in the bathroom.

We don't fit the "norm" for these kinds of behavior. We were a loving, nurturing family who was very close knit. All incidents were reported to law enforcement by our daughters when they became adults.

Consequently, our daughters have chosen to separate from their brothers. We are grateful that our daughters have kept in touch with us, but it has been rocky. We have done some family therapy (online) with our daughters which has been helpful, but also they can't understand why we keep in touch with their brothers (we all live many states away from each other) Overall, our children are all doing relatively well.

The essay, "Poisoned Garden", hit home with me. I've also likened our family to a puzzle that was once put together, but now sits on a shelf, never to be put together again. I believe time may be the best teller of all.

I, too, recently read Sibling Sexual Abuse by Brad Watts, however, it's about 15 years too late for our family. I appreciate his outlook/attitude toward possible recovery/rehabilitation for adolescent sex offenders and that they should not be treated as "little pedofiles". Also, he is one of the few people who acknowledges that "access" to pornography can play a big role in behavior. I'm certain that this is the case for all three of our sons. Each son was exposed to pornography at a very young age. Though we tried to keep this out of their hands, it was next to impossible. And now I tell people there really is no such thing as "protection". Enough is Enough is an organization that is trying to keep pornography out of the hands of children (www.enough.org).

I would like to give a shout out to a couple of resources I've stumbled across over the years. June Hunt's Hope for the Heart and Hope in the Night (live broadcasts of real people with real troubles) is outstanding and has provided me with a lot of wisdom and comfort. It is a Christian broadcast with lots of published materials. This is where I have taken my "posted name" NowIsNotForever from, because this is what June often gently reminds her callers. I'm counting on that in this life and the life to come.

Another resource is a book I recently read, Healing Steps: A Gentle Path to Recovery for Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse by Sharyn Higdon Jones. Based on 35 years of counseling and a survivor herself, I found it to be helpful to me and also to better understand the steps that my daughters will have to take in order to heal. Our daughter also recommended, The Courage to Heal: A Guide for Women Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse.

Though most of us find our identity in being moms, I'm trying to let go of that and realize that that part of my life is over. We did the best we could even though we feel as though we failed miserably. And I experience a great amount of guilt. I sometimes have bouts of despair and some tears almost everyday, but I keep clinging on the hope that Now Is Not Forever. New gardens will be planted, new puzzles will be put together. I recommend that we find anything that is positive (no matter how small) and build on that. Believe in our sons to get better; believe in our daughters to get better. They need to know that we believe in them and that things will get better.
Thanks for sharing your stories. It brought comfort to me to know that I'm not alone.

Hello NowIsNotForever

I read your post and am so very sorry for your family situation. To me it is impossible to “cut out” our sons. I know my daughter feels the same way your daughters feel - can’t seem to figure out why we are wanting to spend time with him, why we worry about him, why he is even a priority after destroying our family. I sometimes think the same thing…. So much energy to keep him on a path to become a good man with an education and a job. I know he feels an enormous amount of guilt and pain for what he has done to his sister and our family. He had spiralled out of control with alcohol and pot before his court date and even though his actions are the reason our family is struggling we love and support him. It is difficult for our daughter to understand.
Now that he has served his time and is released on probation he seems to be doing better although he is back smoking pot and drinking (although seems to be just social drinking). He has graduated (he is 17 now) and has a job interview to frame houses. I am worried they will ask for a criminal record check so I am going to take my Don to the police station to pull one and see what is in it first. I’m hoping since he is a minor it may say convicted but no charge. Then he can make something up like excessive speeding or something. I hope he stays on track and realizes he is worth it as he has struggled with that aspect in the past. My daughter is finally getting help at the sexual assault center after 8 months of being on the list so hopefully things will only go up from here. As you know it has been the most devastating, stressful situation anyone could imagine.
I thank you for your information on resources. It is hard to find anything relatable for sure. So your daughters do not have anything to do with your sons? Would they be willing to do counselling with their brothers? How are your relationships with your sons? Did they try to cut you out as well?
My daughter sees her brother about once a week (she lifted the no contact order) and they seem to be doing ok. Some days are better than others but that is to be expected. They were very close before (did everything together) and so once this happened although she hated him she also missed him like crazy. Such a screwed up situation. I am extremely grateful that she is even open to trying, even though it is not easy for her.
This board as you know is not busy at all. The recommendations are to join a different board for families of SO’s. I did that as well but never have posted on there as I feel it is not relatable to me. I check here every few days so if you post be patient! Thank you again for posting. As heartbreaking as it is to read others stories it helps to know that you’re not alone. This board helped me so much. Just to read others posts and get advice from others who had walked the road before was so helpful. Take care and hope to hear from you again. I will be searching up your resources!

Welcome, Nowisnotforever, and thank you for the resources. A lot of what you wrote resonates with me. Having to come to terms with motherhood as we knew it being over and live with the reality that it hasn't turned out as we worked for. I think it was Joshua Coleman, who just released the book Rules of Estrangement, who wrote words to the effect that "Some parents who truly were abusive still have close relationships with their children. And some parents who were attentive and appropriate and loving have been rejected by their children." Somehow it was comforting to have that truth acknowledged.
And--some people with awful parents turn out to be good people anyway, and some people with good parents end up going down destructive roads in life. Our children are not the ultimate and inerrant indicators of whether we were good parents. Dr. Coleman emphasizes that too.

I do try to remind myself sometime that "It Aint Over Yet"--try not to give up hope that reconciliation with our son or a close relationship with our daughter and youngest son could still come.

I wasn't anticipating 4th of July to be a difficult holiday but it was. Still a lot of memories and they were a reminder of all we've lost. Tried to appreciate the good moments we had now. It's weird--I've made a lot of progress, it's been almost 3 years now since disclosure and when I look at where I was at holidays or milestones a year or two ago, I see how far I've come. But the grief at what we lost is still there.

It's been comforting to find some company here.

Hello brknhrt, holidays are the hardest. Will I hear from my children or not....Mother's Day, Father's Day? Our daughter did not contact us for more than a year. I sent a text about once a month letting her know that I love her and that we care. She finally contacted us (by text) and explained how hard it is to be in touch with us because she associates her abuse with us. That's when I suggested family counseling with us and her sisters and I'm glad she agreed to it, but I don't feel that we're making much progress and I'm prepared for another spell of estrangement.

Someone once said to me, "We are not our children and our children are not us." This is a time of letting go and letting them find themselves. Our daughter married in 2018. Only his parents were in attendance. She did not even invite us. That was hard to accept. The most important thing to me is that our daughters get better even if they don't include us in their lives.

The chapter on Relating to Your Family Now-and Over Time from The Courage to Heal was really good. It helped me to understand that my relationship with our children are ever changing. What I'm experiencing now will probably look different in a year or two. Our oldest daughter is the only one who has ever been fully estranged from us. Fortunately we have good relationships with our sons and mostly with our other two daughters. But the pain is still there. Our daughters have "divorced" their brothers, but maybe that will change one day, too.

I gotta get that Courage to Heal book. I keep hearing about it.

I loved your line "The most important thing to me is that our daughters get better even if they don't include us in their lives." I have the most peace when I remember that this is true. That I'd rather have the children doing well without me, than be a mess with me. Not that it should be a choice, but for now it seems to be.

I'm so sorry for all the traumas your family has gone through. That is sure a lot for one mama to take. I'm glad we could connect here.

Hello llama, Our son was 21 when he was incarcerated. He is currently 28 and doing well. Even though it was hard, he said incarceration was the best thing that happened to him because he was struggling with addiction to pornography. He never pushed us away even though I know he felt terrible about the pain he put us through. Just stand by your son through the good and the bad and let him know you believe in him and that it will get better. Counseling, while in prison and while on probation, was very helpful. However, he said you take the good and throw out the bad.
He was not accepted back at the university he was currently enrolled at which was a big blow to him. He began looking for work and finally found a job as a dishwasher, but when the owner found out about his conviction a month later he fired him on the spot. Another big blow. His dad looked in the area for him and a motorcycle dealership hired him. He worked there for 2-3 years. Being on the sex offender registry limits jobs, and housing locations.
We encouraged him to apply to other schools so that he could finish his degree. Another school has given him a second chance through a program that helps felons get back on their feet. He moved to another city, found housing and took a job at another motorcycle shop. He will graduate in December with a degree in Information Systems! This summer he was offered an internship with the Department of Agriculture.
In the midst of all this (3 yrs) he has been dating a gal and they are planning a future together. Our son has always been upfront about his past. He learned that the hard way while incarcerated. Our lawyer told him to lie when he went to jail and when the truth came out why he had been incarcerated, he was threatened and had to be moved to another facility for protection.
Our son is mild mannered and good with people. He told me once that he doesn't care what people think of him. He has owned up to his past and is doing his best to put that behind him to make a better future.
Remind your son that he is not the first person or the last person to make the same mistake while in his youth. What matters is how he moves forward.
It's huge that his sister will have a relationship with him!

Thank you for those words. This is why I look forward to coming here- it is comforting to hear your stories and put your advice towards our situation.
I am sorry to hear that your girls do not want anything to do with your sons. I think we all understand why but I know as a mom that was my biggest goal was to move ahead with baby steps. I know the kids will never have the same type of closeness they once shared but I just prayed they would be able to be under the same roof so we could have some sort of a family. I did a course through SACE (sexual assault clinic in our city) on how to support your child and learned some great info. After doing the course I realized I was trying to make things happen and pushing everyone (mostly my daughter) to start healing and moving on. I’ve always been a helicopter mom and “run” the family so it was easy to almost push my daughter into doing what I wanted although she obviously wasn’t ready. I have backed off and tried my hardest to not voice my opinions and let her do things on her own time. It is hard for me for sure. Definitely a daily struggle, but something I know for her mental well being I have to do.
And now there is more drama… my daughter has not been supported at all by her older sister (I have 3 kids) as the oldest I feel is so tired of hearing and dealing with all this. She is not able to talk to her sister since she continually defends her brother. It has been brewing for a year and a half and 2 nights ago my middle daughter (that was assaulted) went after her older sister strangling her in our kitchen. I’m like good lord what more can happen?!?! Now the girls are not talking at all and with our oldest wedding coming up soon it is almost more than I can deal with. My husband said these kids just need to go their separate ways. It is so sad to me that our family is such a shit show right now and that nothing seems to be working… these are definitely the days I wish I drank! (Kidding).
The psychologists who did a joint counselling session with us said something that was so true. She said your family will never be the same again but that’s ok. That we can start a new family. Adding in spouses when kids get married etc. It was a low point for me as I just wanted my family back to how we were before this happened but I know that is gone and I too also have to move on. I do take some comfort to know that my daughter is willing to see and talk to him even if it’s tense and uncomfortable for short periods of time.
I am so sad to hear that you missed one of your children’s wedding. That is definitely heartbreaking and I feel for you. I can see from the girls perspective though as I know my daughter did give me a choice of her brother or her at the beginning. She said if I was supporting him than I was not supporting her. Thank goodness she revoked that after about a week but I often think I would probably feel the same if I was in her shoes. If it was anyone other than my son….
I guess all we can do like you said is support them as much as we can, be there for them and know we tried our best. At the end of the day that’s all we can do as parents. In all our cases they are all adults and need to make the decisions that they feel are right for them at this time, and hope that they remember how much we love them. When my son called from juvenile detention every night all he talked about was that he would never take us for granted and that he was so sorry for treating us the way he did. I was relieved to hear that but after his 30 days he seems to be doing the same and going back to his old habits. Not sure if it’s the age or something else. His probation officer has put in a referral to a counselling that deals with this issue although we have yet to hear anything. Healthcare. Ugghhh. I’m hoping things settle down and I can start focusing on my marriage again as it has suffered due to all this. I guess just another day in our lives.

Sometimes I read books or hear people talk about their various traumas and how they dealt with them. It always cuts hard when they emphasize how their family got them through, family is everything, etc. I'm glad for them but it just leaves me feeling so lonely--what if losing your family IS your trauma? So it helps to come here and know that it's possible to survive the trauma of losing your family. I cycle back and forth from despair and hope, mourning and looking the other way. It's a sign of healing that I can look the other way and enjoy the present, not always but often.

Dear llama, Your husband is right. Your family is leaving the nest soon. Our children are all out of the home and it's taken a load off of me. Although I'm sorry that we did not have closure on our parenting. I hope that you can enjoy the preparations for your daughter's upcoming wedding. She needs you now and in time hopefully she will come to understand her younger sister's hurt. It's our new normal. But it doesn't feel very normal to me. It all feels so wrong. But I can't change it. I have to accept it. I've enjoyed focusing my attention on other things/people and not being consumed 24/7 with the hurt that our family has gone through.
Again, enjoy this time with your daughter as she prepares for her wedding. It's a special time for your and her. This is probably the most joyous time in her life.

Dear brknhrt, Are you married or have a significant other in your life right now? Do you have a trusted friend you can confide in? I just met up with a friend from another state and shared all of our family's hurt. I'm glad she knows. She has been a long time, dear friend. Getting out and doing things for yourself is important. Physical exercise also helps and a hobby you enjoy. Try to plan an activity that you can look forward to. Possibly going to a museum etc. These things help me to get my mind off the pain even if just for awhile.

Yeah, I have a longtime husband and I think we are going to make it through this together, we are doing counseling but I don't think our therapist is all that qualified or perceptive. Although in her defense, we have only seen her online due to Covid and maybe she will be better if her clinic ever goes back to in person. (Therapists were in the first round of healthcare vaccinated, we're both vaccinated, and we're still virtual. A waste of that precious early vaccine IMO) But he processes this so much different than me, which seems to be really common. I did confide in him that I felt a depressed kind of tired the day I wrote this before, and he just replied with a puzzled, "What are you depressed about?" But at least it wasn't an accusatory "what are you depressed about" which it might have been at one point. So that's progress. I do have friends who know but it's different to come here and find people who really understand.

Not having closure on parenting is a really good way of putting it, when this hits around the time the kids are launching into adulthood. A lot of people would try to reassure me that it's normal the kids are behaving more distant, that they'd be leaving home and becoming independent anyway, that I must be not able to let go. But it's more that the usual rituals of leaving the nest were disrupted big-time, as well as there being so much more emotional work dumped on us at the same time. And that my whole narrative of what I thought their childhood was and what our family was had to be re-done. You can't just flip a switch and have that happen. So anyway, the words you used were a helpful way for me to think about that and describe it. Sometimes just finding the right words gives you a way to understand what you're going through and be able to move past it. Thanks.