Healthy Relationships Support Group
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Hiya everyone. I'm struggling with something, and I need some advice. I've been having a really horrible week or 2, and honestly, I feel a bit lost. I feel like I'm alienating people, but I don't fully understand how. Is it possible to care too much? Is it possible to be there for people that winds up repulsing them?
Last week, I lost one of my closest friends, and honestly I couldn't tell you how. I've spent the better part of 8 months, rebuilding a friendship with this girl, who I was friends with for years prior to my ex-wife's uprooting us and all my friends lashing out in disappointment at us for leaving them again. I have been rebuilding friendships with everyone that I left behind, and for the most part, they are great. I've made new friends, and overall, I feel like my socialization skills have improved.
So anyway, I think I lost this friend. She was a support for me, someone I could trust, someone I felt safe opening up to, someone that seemingly wanted to genuinely be there for me. Being in a lot of need with the recent separation, and my bout with suicide and all, I reached out and thankfully she was there. I've shared things with her no one else really know except my ex, and in return she was opening up to me, and sharing with me too, and I thought we were great.
But two or three weeks ago, we were talking in her car about a strange concept to me, about letting go. I posted it here on DS, and got some feedback, but for me, it still is a tricky concept for me to understand. The discussion mainly came up because we went to church, and their message at church was about letting go of your pain, and giving it to God, and that holding onto it can lead you to despair. It was all in a big theme about celebrating the real meaning of Christmas, and all that.
So, for about 2 or so hours, we talked, and shared ideas, and we were talking about this. Letting go turned into things about darkness, the feelings of darkness and despair, and generally other negative stuff. I tried my best to end it on a positive note, but I'm not sure if I succeeded or not. With her, sometimes it is hard to tell.
So the next day, she, for whatever reason, she still hasn't told me, lost it. Went completely depressed, hating the world, whining how bad her life was, how no one cared for her, or could love her. It was very dramatic, and sadly, due to the conversation the night before, I was worried I brought up some old memories for her, and this was my fault.
So I reached out to her, and tried to sooth her, and calm her down, but she pushed me away, harshly. I don't want to you about it, I want to be left alone, I'm fine, was all she would really say. I told her I was here if she needed support, and that I was always there for her, and she wasn't alone. A few days later, she starts again, posting really sad songs, and saying how alone she was and that everyone hated her, and how she didn't belong. Being me, I again, tried to send her words of encouragement, trying to be positive, and it backfired.
I get a message early the next morning telling me I need to leave her alone. That she was a horrible person and didn't deserve friends. I took offense to that, and honestly was so busy getting ready for someone's birthday party, that I told her I didn't have time to handle it, that I would talk to her later today about it. I wasn't trying to be mean about it, but it came off that way.
So after an evening of fighting through text, her throwing more barbs at me that I couldn't care for her, and that I'm just going to abandon her like everyone else, and saying that I'm just like everyone else, it really hurt me inside. And I mean really hurt. I've done nothing but go out of my way for her, and this is the treatment I get. So things got really heated with her, and I got defensive. I told her I was leaving her alone for a week, and when she cooled off, maybe we could talk again.
That week has passed now, and honestly, I don't know what to do anymore. She reminds me so much of my ex. My ex had this way of bottling things up inside until she popped, and then it was holy hell to whoever was nearby. Well this girl does the same damn thing, and is far more volatile then my ex ever was. Also, she isn't as great at masking her pain, and is very open with how badly she is suffering, to the point of being what I consider a drama queen.
But at the same time, she is one of the 3 major support systems I have. This site is one, and even though I'm being stalked right now by a dying girl who forced me to leave, I'm here posting, solely because I've lost my way. In the last month, I've alienated 2 different women, even though one of them is clearly crazy. I feel a bit lost and hopeless, because the only person I can really reach out to is my mother, and long story short, she is got enough stuff going on in her life to write a novel about at this point.
I sit here and watch my mom struggle and suffer, and all I can do is listen. I've pushed myself a lot the last couple of months, just so she doesn't have to do more when she gets home. I cook, clean, laundry, dishes, pretty much all the housework, just so she can come home to a meal and relax. My MG is hating it, but at this point, that is what my walker is for, so I do what I have to. So I don't really want to burden her with all this if I can avoid it.
So at the risk of being watched, I'm here, posting my feelings and heart out, to you kind people in hopes of something. I don't understand what to do to fix this. Is it even worth fixing at this point? This has happened before, all over a miscommunication with her. I feel like I keep opening up to people who don't really have my interests at heart. This girl knows full well what my ex did to me, and all the trigger points to strike at me, just from my stories about my ex.
So for her to push me away like this, and to say the hurtful things she said, leaves me wondering, am I just horrible at picking friends? Or is it that I'm not capable of having female friends? I seem to be lacking in skill when it comes to relating to women lately, seeing as I shattered a dying girl's heart over a lie, and seemingly have shattered my friends heart over caring too much.
Why can't I just be stupid like a good portion of this world, and go with the flow? Why must I analyze, and take such a personal interest in my friends lives? Why do I have to have this weird conceptual things, that wind up leaving me going on long conversations with people, that wind up inflicting pain on them, without even realizing it. And most importantly, why can't I trust people anymore?
I'm rambling, so I'll leave it there. Thanks for the support and advice as always. I greatly appreciate the help. Without you guys and this site, I wouldn't be the same person I am now. So thank you once again, and I look forward to reading your replies.
Last week, I lost one of my closest friends, and honestly I couldn't tell you how. I've spent the better part of 8 months, rebuilding a friendship with this girl, who I was friends with for years prior to my ex-wife's uprooting us and all my friends lashing out in disappointment at us for leaving them again. I have been rebuilding friendships with everyone that I left behind, and for the most part, they are great. I've made new friends, and overall, I feel like my socialization skills have improved.
So anyway, I think I lost this friend. She was a support for me, someone I could trust, someone I felt safe opening up to, someone that seemingly wanted to genuinely be there for me. Being in a lot of need with the recent separation, and my bout with suicide and all, I reached out and thankfully she was there. I've shared things with her no one else really know except my ex, and in return she was opening up to me, and sharing with me too, and I thought we were great.
But two or three weeks ago, we were talking in her car about a strange concept to me, about letting go. I posted it here on DS, and got some feedback, but for me, it still is a tricky concept for me to understand. The discussion mainly came up because we went to church, and their message at church was about letting go of your pain, and giving it to God, and that holding onto it can lead you to despair. It was all in a big theme about celebrating the real meaning of Christmas, and all that.
So, for about 2 or so hours, we talked, and shared ideas, and we were talking about this. Letting go turned into things about darkness, the feelings of darkness and despair, and generally other negative stuff. I tried my best to end it on a positive note, but I'm not sure if I succeeded or not. With her, sometimes it is hard to tell.
So the next day, she, for whatever reason, she still hasn't told me, lost it. Went completely depressed, hating the world, whining how bad her life was, how no one cared for her, or could love her. It was very dramatic, and sadly, due to the conversation the night before, I was worried I brought up some old memories for her, and this was my fault.
So I reached out to her, and tried to sooth her, and calm her down, but she pushed me away, harshly. I don't want to you about it, I want to be left alone, I'm fine, was all she would really say. I told her I was here if she needed support, and that I was always there for her, and she wasn't alone. A few days later, she starts again, posting really sad songs, and saying how alone she was and that everyone hated her, and how she didn't belong. Being me, I again, tried to send her words of encouragement, trying to be positive, and it backfired.
I get a message early the next morning telling me I need to leave her alone. That she was a horrible person and didn't deserve friends. I took offense to that, and honestly was so busy getting ready for someone's birthday party, that I told her I didn't have time to handle it, that I would talk to her later today about it. I wasn't trying to be mean about it, but it came off that way.
So after an evening of fighting through text, her throwing more barbs at me that I couldn't care for her, and that I'm just going to abandon her like everyone else, and saying that I'm just like everyone else, it really hurt me inside. And I mean really hurt. I've done nothing but go out of my way for her, and this is the treatment I get. So things got really heated with her, and I got defensive. I told her I was leaving her alone for a week, and when she cooled off, maybe we could talk again.
That week has passed now, and honestly, I don't know what to do anymore. She reminds me so much of my ex. My ex had this way of bottling things up inside until she popped, and then it was holy hell to whoever was nearby. Well this girl does the same damn thing, and is far more volatile then my ex ever was. Also, she isn't as great at masking her pain, and is very open with how badly she is suffering, to the point of being what I consider a drama queen.
But at the same time, she is one of the 3 major support systems I have. This site is one, and even though I'm being stalked right now by a dying girl who forced me to leave, I'm here posting, solely because I've lost my way. In the last month, I've alienated 2 different women, even though one of them is clearly crazy. I feel a bit lost and hopeless, because the only person I can really reach out to is my mother, and long story short, she is got enough stuff going on in her life to write a novel about at this point.
I sit here and watch my mom struggle and suffer, and all I can do is listen. I've pushed myself a lot the last couple of months, just so she doesn't have to do more when she gets home. I cook, clean, laundry, dishes, pretty much all the housework, just so she can come home to a meal and relax. My MG is hating it, but at this point, that is what my walker is for, so I do what I have to. So I don't really want to burden her with all this if I can avoid it.
So at the risk of being watched, I'm here, posting my feelings and heart out, to you kind people in hopes of something. I don't understand what to do to fix this. Is it even worth fixing at this point? This has happened before, all over a miscommunication with her. I feel like I keep opening up to people who don't really have my interests at heart. This girl knows full well what my ex did to me, and all the trigger points to strike at me, just from my stories about my ex.
So for her to push me away like this, and to say the hurtful things she said, leaves me wondering, am I just horrible at picking friends? Or is it that I'm not capable of having female friends? I seem to be lacking in skill when it comes to relating to women lately, seeing as I shattered a dying girl's heart over a lie, and seemingly have shattered my friends heart over caring too much.
Why can't I just be stupid like a good portion of this world, and go with the flow? Why must I analyze, and take such a personal interest in my friends lives? Why do I have to have this weird conceptual things, that wind up leaving me going on long conversations with people, that wind up inflicting pain on them, without even realizing it. And most importantly, why can't I trust people anymore?
I'm rambling, so I'll leave it there. Thanks for the support and advice as always. I greatly appreciate the help. Without you guys and this site, I wouldn't be the same person I am now. So thank you once again, and I look forward to reading your replies.
I firstly would venture a guess that it is comforting for you to be friends with people that you can relate to..in other words you keep picking people to be close to and to draw support from who are riddled with problems because you feel you have more in common with people like that. While I understand that misery loves company (and please don't take offense to that because I don't mean any harm by putting it that way) I think you may be better off trying to set yourself up with a support system of people that are stable and strong and can, in a sense, carry you or help you through the hard times (if that makes sense) instead of just laying their burdens back on you so that there is an imbalance of positive/negative energy between you.
In the case of this friend who pushed you away, I am sure that hurt very much but that does not reflect on you or on what kind of a friend you are. She has her own demons obviously and if she is that volatile than you just need to stay away from her for your own good no matter how much you care for her.
You sound like a nice guy. I know what it is like to be overly analytical. That is my personality type and it certainly can be a curse but you are who you are and all you can do is accept that. Love yourself. You are worth it.
I know it won't be easy to replace the support system you had in this girl but you must start looking for more positive outlets. There is nothing wrong with two fragile or broken people being friends and supporting each other through hard times as long as that is indeed what they are doing...vs. hurting or punishing one another for what they are going through.
Good luck honey.
I think you hit the chord right there (definitely struck a chord in me, that I can relate to), and I think you freaked the Christian girl out, who leans on God and Jesus as ways of keeping herself out of that dark pit of hell.
My feeling is (sigh): The darkness EXISTS. It is THERE. So, knowing that it exists, that it is there, the trick is finding a way to ENJOY it, to CELEBRATE it, to laugh at it, to transmute it into something like art, and/or exercise, something that will actually do your body, and soul, SOME GOOD.
That's what I, and a lot of other artists, do. We don't try to sweep darkness under the rug, as so many other, "fair-weather" souls do, when it bubbles to the surface. We just transmute, morph it, into something else, to get it outside ourselves, to reach others, at least for awhile. And hanging with others, who are similarly in a dark place, helps. Darkness is lessened when it's shared, and understood, when there is love in the center of the darkness to make it more palatable. Your Christian friend obviously didn't want to "go there".
Maybe hang with the sinners instead of the saints-in-training. They are, perhaps, better company in the darkness, as long as they, and you, are not indulging in self-destructive behaviors.
Eventually, darkness will consume us, and we will simply fold into it and die. Then, hopefully, darkness will be no more, or we will find much love in, and beyond, the darkness.
I feel you, bro. Now, I'm going for a bike-ride...
How long did you lose contact? All the "catching up" you two did, how much of it was you listening n her sharing?
I'm somewhat torn between saying two completely opposite things. I'll wait for more insight...
I moved out to WV, for 2 or so years, because my ex wanted to get away from her family, claimed it was better for my health. I found out during the huge fight of me trying to convince her not to leave me she moved us there the first time because my friends were too much for her, and she had to get them out of our lives. A couple years later, we moved back, and we all reattached, and became great friends again.
A year or so later, my ex decided she didn't want to work anymore so made up some illness so she didn't have to work. We wound up losing our place, and honestly, living in NJ on my little income is damn near impossible. It is the main reason I'm stuck here at my parents house for the unforeseeable future. But in order to be on our own again, she moved us back out to Ohio, which in turn meant me losing all my friends again, and this time, they tried to fight it.
They tried to reason with her not to leave, that they could help, but she wanted no parts of it. So they were upset, and lashed out at both of us for us leaving. So we lived out in Ohio for 4 years, and due to the way things ended up, I didn't really talk to them much anymore. The girl I'm talking about, we got in a huge fight, and she cut contact with me. So there is that back story.
When I came back, yes I listened to her. She is got a lot of issues, and letting go is a really big one. She is no where near where I am in terms of letting go of my ex, or moving on with my life, from a 6 year old relationship. Sadly, my best friend cheated on her, and she has never let that go, or healed from it. She then found a guy, who really emotionally abused her, and other things, and has never let his words or actions go either. To her, we are all like them, all out to hurt her, and destroy her, and she isn't worth anything.
All I do is support her. I listen for hours when she talks, I give her advice, and tools and ways to help her get through. Problem is, I think she doesn't really listen to it as much. There are times that I truly need to talk, and I will if she is ok with it, but I always ask if it is ok first, and me personally, I'm a bit of a dark person inside. So when I get talking about strange concepts that don't make sense to me, or something that invokes a lot of heartache, it weighs on me.
The whole conversation that might of set it off is solely because of the way it transitioned. My theory, at least, was that we never really let go of all that happens to us in life, because the darkness, the pain, and the emotional response to those memories are still within us. If I think too heavily about my ex, I can easily make myself cry, for not having her anymore. Things in my childhood, that are 15-20 years old I can still cry if it sits in my head too long. I don't dwell on them, nor focus on them, nor even think about them anymore, but should I bring it up to help someone, or have a dream about it or something, it can invoke an emotional response, which normally makes me sad, depressed for a little, or I cry.
Kool, your theory is something I personally share a bit. I don't push it under, but I do contain it so it doesn't turn into a self-destructive thing. Music is a passion of mine, so when I'm really feeling it, I listen to somber music, and just let it flow out of me, and it helps a lot. I don't know how to really make new friends, let alone friends with a darker side, so that one I'll have to work on. All my friends are Christian oriented, very happy go lucky, and truthfully speaking, there are times I wonder why I'm still their friend. I don't feel I fit in anymore, but they are all I have, and I do have a great time with them, so I figure that is good enough.
I'll be honest, it is hard watching this girl spiral like she does, knowing there isn't anything I can do. Sometimes, I often wonder if that is just the course of human nature. We spiral, alone, and when we hit bottom, then we can help. Truthfully, I don't know how much farther she could realistically fall. She seems stuck at the bottom, but no matter what I do, it just isn't good enough.
I don't think it is possible that she likes me in that way Lianna. She currently has a boyfriend, and number two, I honestly think she is far too picky to go out with someone like me. She won't come out and say it, but I have noticed a couple times when I'm a bit sicker then normal, that she tends to over react about it, and I think personally she wouldn't know how to handle me even if she wanted to. I know I don't see her in that light, because I do see her like my ex a lot. I always have, but I honestly had hoped after 4 years, she might of changed a bit. Clearly I was wrong on that.
I do pose a question to you all though. Is it a bad idea to have people in your life that can help support you? I know I take on a lot of other people's burdens, and I have no issue helping them through tough times, or just being there for them, but that is me. Am I a bit different in how i handle people compared to most? I know I'm different in a ton of other ways, so I wouldn't be surprised. Counseling has never really worked for me, due to trust. I have a hard time trusting, and I find it that if I let them inside of my head, they might want to lock me up. Trust me when I say, there is a lot that is probably better unsaid, that if I was seeking help, I might want to reveal to better understand me. This fear alone keeps me away.
I also get what you mean about counselling- more people than you might imagine have the same exact fears about opening up to others. I have always been afraid to even discuss depression for fear anyone would ever think I couldn't take care of my boys. I have an older sister who once tried to have me taken away from my Mom because I was getting too chubby when I was a kid. I had some health problems that my mom was taking me to the Dr. for which was none of my sisters business- but just knowing there are people like that out there- makes one worry. These days however the whole mental health area is really opening up, things don't have to be kept "secret" anymore.
As far as this girl goes, I realize she needs to do this. I've been encouraging her to do this for months and months now. She makes it very hard however, because she always says things, that sound like she is in crisis and needs help. The, I hate my life, no one can love me, I'm so alone and everyone hates me, so on and so forth. It is continual, it never seems to change. I reach out, because I do care, but I guess my actions don't really account for much. I know on the flip side, her listening to me, and helping me means the world to me, and she is one of the few people that have really helped me when I was in crisis 7 months ago.
I guess we are all different though. The ball is in my court at the moment, so I guess I need to make a decision and stick with it. I honestly think she is bad for me, and is only going to continue to bring me down. On the other hand, we were friends for 3-4 years prior to this, and for 8 months after me moving back. A lot of time and effort has been invested on my part to make up for my ex's decisions, and the massive fight that happened when we left. I guess the question I need to ask myself, is if this is really worth fighting for. I honestly wonder if this is going to happen again, and again, until I just can't do no more, or will she change. I don't know the answer to that, and I think that is what scares me the most.