While I agree w you, I know the courts w support the visit. It's a real shame children have to go through this, but then my gs celebrated his first birthday in the cancer unit because his mom was dying. Life is not fair.

That's a dilemma, allright. On one hand, they'd get to see the consequences of following in their bios' footsteps. And perhaps after the first visit they may not want to go again. On the other hand, I'd hate having them exposed to that environment.

I know that, if they HAD to visit her, I would want to be the one to take them. That way, I would be able to prep them and be open for an honest discussion about it afterwards.

A question for Daisy: do you think the court would make us take gc to visit a parent in prison? My custody papers say I am to give the parents "reasonable visitation at my discretion". I ask because I think there is a warrant out for my gc bio mom as she blew off a court hearing to revoke her probation. If they catch up with her I am sure she will go to prison.

My father was seriously mentally ill - schzophrenic. When I was very young I was taken to the state hospital to see him. I am now 56 and yet still to this day I remember the intense fear and turmoil I felt in that situation. I agree, life is not fair, My brothers and I were so young and had no explanation or emotional support with this issue or my father's illness. It may help immensely if you make this visit with the children, as Sara BT suggests and be open and super supportive for the kids ( take your own support person along if possible ). Otherwise, they will pick up on your personal feelings and maybe resent you and maybe glorify their imprisoned parent . I 'd be worried that the kids would end up thinking that if their mom's in jail that they'll go to jail when they're older too - you know how kids can internalize such things. Hope I don't sound like the voice of doom... I believe such familial situations have tremendous impact on children and they can think they'll end up like their parent ( s ) Do you have a therapist or social support person to guide you with how best to approach this ?

I took Paige to see her mother when she was in prison. In this case, the results were good. Paige wondered about her mother, where she was, if she was safe, if she looked the same, etc. After each visit, she was calmer and not as worried. I did lay down ground rules with my daughter as to what not to do and say and keep the visit upbeat. My dd was in a minimum security prison that looked like an older women's college campus, no gates or bars. I think the kind of facility might make a difference, bars and cells might scare a young child. In our case, the visits were a positive for Paige, but each situation is different.

Unfortunately prison does not have the stigma it used to. How many actors and sports stars have gone to prison and come out smiling? Yes I know the courts do order visitation in prison. As i have said previously, the parents tights supercede the best interest of the child.

The courts would not impose visitation. My custody agreement states visitation is a agreed upon between me and mom. I fear the girls will resent me if I don't let them go. I also agree, if I do let them go, I will take them. Ex is an idiot- He wouldn't be very comforting if the girls got upset. Also, they don't have a close relationship with my ex (their grandpa). He only sees them at Christmas and MAYBE on one other day to give them a present for their birthday (this is never even close to their birthday, just a day he picks to give them a present). I am going to ponder this issue a little longer, and if they continue to push the issue I'll make a decision. I really don't want to go nor allow them to go.

Horsepad, I think your instincts are spot on. Visiting a prison would be traumatic enough, let alone if they went with someone they really didn't know.

There really aren't any good answers to this one, about actually letting them visit. I know how you fell, though -- the whole thing is SO distasteful, isn't it? Once again the bios put us into positions that go directly against everything we believe.

If the parent request visitation I have seen the courts give it to the parent. The court can alter custody agreement if parent requests it. Parents tights come first. That is what I am fighting for, legal standing in court. Politicians, lawyers and family court judges have confirmed this to me. That being said, each situation is unique, but the laws dictate decisions. Our state is actively working on a program to increase visits by children w incarcerated parents. Personally I support your opinion and do support my states program, but is happening

Sara- you are right about bios putting us in positions we don't want to be in. I feel the whole situation is distasteful and once again because of the actions of my daughter.

Daisyduck-fortunately for me, my daughter is too lazy to actually do anything like take me to court for visitation. That would require effort on her part. I am a GAL and it amazes me how much effort is put into trying to get the bios to be parents and the number of chances they will give a bio. They definately have the upper hand. My atty. told me even if I adopt, should I die, the bios get first pick on whether they want girls even if I have it in my will that I want a non family member to raise them. I don't understand this. If I adopt I am the parent, not the bios, and I should be allowed to decide where the girls will live. The bios have been convicted and served time for all kinds of violent acts against others, robbery, drugs, etc.etc etc. One of the bios who took me to court for visitation and who I had to file a police report against, although out of fear for my safety, didn't want him charged-is currently charged with sexual imposition with 12-14 girls! He isn't even supposed to be around minors and my atty. said the court will consider supervised visitation. I couldn't believe my ears! OMG, now that is child abuse! Exposing a little girl to a man who has been convicted of many criminal activities and is now charged with soliciting sex from a 12 yr. old! Oh, don't get me going........ :)

Horsepad, I adopted my gd in July, her pretenda dad is in prison and she wants to go see him. I have told her no, that prison isn't a place for a visit. I never had to worry about the courts forcing the visit, since he isn't her bio dad, but he is the only dad she knew for seven years. My heart breaks for her, yet I feel the same way about prison and small children visits as you do.
when she talks about a visit. It's more about being worried about him and less about seeing him for him. I keep ensuring her he's fine and healthy where he is.
Do what you feel is in the best interest of you GC. If the courts force you, then that's a different matter.

Daisy - your situation would drive me to the edge. What is a GAL ?

Sorry, I mean horsepad !

As I said originally, I agree with you. My sister died at 34 and left 4 children with her husband after writing a will that if anything happened to bio dad, my husband and I would get the kids. My bil spent the year after her death, drinking every night while my mother took early retirement to watch his kids. She even used her ss to buy food and clothes for the kids. At the end of the year, he announced he was marrying the barmaid he had been hanging out with. Short story: she was mentally ill and already through a divorce with two kids of her own. My bil threw my mother out and put my sister's kids in the basement. When our daughter was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, she and her husband wrote a will at the hospital where it was witnessed and signed by the neurosurgeon and a sw. About a year after her death, sil announced he met someone and was going to get married. He agreed we would remain a part of gs life as we had basically raised him. Six weeks later, we were told we could not see gs. Went to lawyer who verified that even if parents have a will, upon death of one, the other can negate the will. The question I have for you is: our atty suggested we adopt when the opportunity arose because we would get a new birth certificate with our names as parents, thereby negating any rights of the surviving parent. From what you say, your atty is saying the bio parents would still have rights. I would check that out. If parental rights were given up or taken away, how could they possibly be considered appropriate for parents?

sitonit-A GAL is a guardian ad litem (also called court appointed special advocate) in juvenile court. I represent abused, neglected and dependent children and write recommendations to the Judge on what the child wants and what I consider to be in the best interest of the child.

Nutsandbolts-I am going to follow my gut feeling. I am also going to ask the counselor I see her opinion on the girls visiting mom. I have a feeling she will agree with me.

Daisyduck-I am so sorry for what you have been through. How painful that must have been for you to have to go through. I don't understand how any bio could have any say if I am able to adopt. That is one of the questions I will ask the attorney I am getting a second opinion from.