I think I know what you mean. You [the individual] is the only one to determine their progress. I am an addict, so on the general face of things I am totally all or nothing. I do not do things my half measure. Why? To my addictive brain -if I drink I am going to have the whole 18 pack, or the whole bottle, or what have you. That, I guess, is why I could never leave the casino with a dollar in my pocket. As for finding out WHY we gamble, I have been told we may never know. I do know that it was killing me, and yet I loved it. There is no rhyme or reason. That Dopamine would kick in, and I was a slave to my addiction. It was a grueling soul-sucking, not caring if you slept, ass-kicking addiction. I have to remind myself of that every time I want to go back. As for the period of time, for some people it is empowering to go "I have such and such amount of days, weeks, months, years". For others that could be a trigger in itself..."I always go out when I am 55 days, I can't make it to 6 months," etc. etc. You get what you get out of it, what you put into it. Maybe someone that has two weeks, can be further in their non-gambling journey, than someone that has a year. Really does depend on how passionate you are about your recovery. I truly am trying to put into how I am recovering, the same way I used to gamble. That is no holds barred, stay up all night, IMMERSION.
As for relapsing, I was an interesting thing. Was it a lapse, or was it a relapse? This really struck me. The thing is, if it was a lapse, you get right back here, or go right back to a GA meeting. If it is a relapse you stay out for a while. Are ashamed to go to a meeting, or come back to the boards. I think a lapse can be VERY valuable. It lets you know that you may have the beast caged, but if you let him out, he will chew you up, and spit you out.
Great post 2live, glad to see you. love, ~atticus

I've learned to be okay with, "Not Knowing. Not Understanding." This disease is cunning and baffeling so it's never gonna make any sense and trying to make sense of it only ends in frustration and often times relapse. My quote is, "I may not know what works, but for damn sure, I know what doesn't. If I stop doing what doesn't work (gambling) perhaps I'll free up enough energy to discover what does work. Only you can decide what works for you. There is no cookie cutter approach to treatment or recovery. If counting increases your anxiety, don't count. If calling yourself an addict reminds you that this disease is only a whisper away, then label yourself as such. When I gamble again, then just pick myself up and start over is leaving that door wide open to mess up. At least that would be the case for me. I have a made up mind that the Casino has gotten the last dime they'll ever get from me and that has been the case now for two and half years after five or six years of struggling desperately. There is no time line to recovery. Everyone is different. There is no one rock bottom for everyone because we are all different. Learn to be okay with NOT knowing. Refuse to let this disease take anything else from you. Money, time, sleep, peace, self esteem, respect, loved ones, jobs, freedom, houses, cars, and the list goes on and on. God Bless

Thank you Atticus and y.... for the thoughtful posts. What I really want is step by step instructions that tell me how to get from point A to point B.... I am realizing that I'm not going to get that and also realizing that I'm having a hard time trusting myself to figure out the best way for me to get from A to B. I am finding that I don't sit well with grey areas - I like concrete evidence and clear guidelines. I need to learn to trust my instincts more and to let go of absolutes.
I am putting a lot into this. I am doing the work. What more can I ask of myself right?

Good discussion and great question! The problem is Point A is different for everyone, and so is Point B. I do not know what Point B really looks like, I used to go to counselling and discussed with her about whether or not a friendly home game of poker for low stakes was considered gambling or if it was "allowed". She didn't have an answer, I think you just know in your gut how it makes you feel. If it is entertainment, you won't feel bad or regret it, however if you start to get anxiety, false hopes, thoughts of doing more gambling, obsessing about it, heart pounding and sweaty, depressed etc then you should NOT try to trick yourself into thinking its ok. Personally I think the issues behind the gambling are the more important ones but the gambling prevents us from addressing them, and if we are able to address them then we would no longer desire to gamble or be controlled by it - maybe thats the key, is not being able to say no, but not even wanting to say yes?!
And yet I keep falling down over and over, every couple weeks, bc I just dont know how to address the issues behind it, or I am scared to.

Alex, I'm right there with you.... and for me, I too believe the issues behind the gambling must be addressed but I am having a hard time digging deep and figuring it all out. I have spent most of my life burying my feelings deep deep down and getting to them is all new to me. I want to now though... because of the gambling. And I want to not even want to say yes.... that would be my point B. Thanks for the great post!

Good Thread!!

I think in the beginning I was looking for that one size fits all....I finally realized that it doesn't work like that. I also found that when I dig too deep within myself I turn back...I do not want to confront or go seeking out answers of "why" I turned into a CG. I just know I did. Like atticus said...I am an all or nothing type of person. When I drank I could not understand why anyone would ever want to drink "just one". It seemed senseless to me...and it still does. That is why I stopped drinking all together....I did not like the consequences.

Here I am dealing with the same outcome...could not gamble just a little...had to be all or nothing. I don't know if their is a blueprint...my gambling counselor has told me I was at high risk to begin with because of other family members who gambled compulsively. That does not let me off the hook...just helps me to understand that I was already vulnerable to becoming a person who could easily become addicted because of a family history.

Knowing that helps but does not make it any easier. I will say however that I think by reading and learning as much as I could about gambling has helped me. Also being here...learning from others and supporting each other in good days and in bad...that's where I am at right now in my life.

Beyond that I guess it is one day at a time. I will say however that I think we should try not to compare ourselves to others who may be ahead of us in the number of days they have successfully abstained. What matters is our own success and which way we are headed. Try not to beat yourself up and no matter what, never ever give up on yourself.

We can all write our own success story...I know this is possible for all of us. My heart tells me if I want it bad enough I can make it happen.

I don't know if this was any help...it inspired some thoughts and feelings that I wanted to share though. ((God Bless))

Another great comment Jabot, thanks for sharing!
Your comments about success made me think that there is not really a "point B" where we can say "I did it", but rather each and every day we can continue to be successful, whether its our first day gamble free, our 10th "first" day gamble free, or our 1000th consecutive day gamble free, each one of those days is a successful day!

I wont be gambling today thats for darn sure!! :)

It so different for everyone. My problem behind gambling is my PTSD, and when I tried to work on that I had worst relapses ever. What I heard is - knowing why you gamble is not really benefiting cg in their recovery. And it is just better to stay abstinent, work on your recovery From gambling, make ammends, etc. I joint PTSD support group here, but returning back to pain and suffer feelings hidden inside and reading about it from PTSD posts, gave me huge panic attack, I did not have in years. It made me to feel like only going back to casino can numbed it and make my anxiety and pain go away. So, after all I think there is a very smart meanning behind those words: One Day at the time. And also keeping it simple. Love to you all, Vicky

You bring up a good point and I totally understand your though process. Part of me is thinking I think if we do relapse we want to say ok move on, it happens, its OK, we try to justify to some degree, and in one way it is ok, however the flipside is if we continue to think its ok to relapse then eventually it could lead us back into the life of gambling. It so hard.
I haven't gambled since April - I don't count or know off hand how many days its exactly, and I really don't count....I'm proud of myself that I have chosen to stop. Its only really the last few weeks out of the blue I have had thoughts of going, I HAVEN'T but its cross my mind a few times. I feel guilty it even has, however wanted to share and be true.
I have had some stresses (not financial, but other things) that have caused me to feel stress and think about taking a breather and goin g to play poker, etc. though I know that can turn into something horrible, and more stress if I were to lose money so I'm chosing to NOT go and resist. I'm human, I had enjoyed it at times, however knew the addiction took me in, and the web is so hard to crawl out. So with all my rambling here, I guess my point is, I can also relapse so I can feel that gambling high (pleasure) etc. however I know its NOT okay, and I don't want to get stuck in the WEB of gambling again, its taking me 17+ yrs to get out. I think , we NEED to really think about the reality of what slipping and going does to us. I have to remind myself of all my struggles, pain, torture, and life when I was gambling and not make it ok to relapse. I know its so hard, many us go through it, and if you relapse its not the end of the world, of course we try again and move forward, you don't have to count the days.....just think about what gambling is really doing to you before you make that choice - think of the outcome you have had before,, were here to offer support and I shared my urges - I pray to have control and not act on it, and I appreciate and the positive reinforcement on DS, its ok to fall we do get back up - we have to forgive ourselves, and also do fight the urge.

Hey all......what a great post ll2live, and to all the responders -I am just awe struck with the wonderful reflection each of you have brought to the table. It's posts like these, that make me feel we're in an on-line GA meeting, for there are morsels of wonderful therapy to grab hold of and place in out tool boxes.

When I started my journey back in April, I had no idea what to expect. I was initially under the impression that the progressive GF milestones were mile markers measuring the person's level of
success with arresting their addiction. After being 1 month gamble free, I remember thinking "okay, that wasn't so bad". But about six weeks into, I was so confused, I felt like my head was going to explode! All kinds of memories began racing through my head, and I tried so desperately to connect the dots...but I couldn't.

Today, 5 + months into my recovery, I'm just now deciding to unload all the crap that I accumulated in my backpack from about 15 years of compulsive gambling. I employed the assistance of an addiction counselor to help me share some of the burden that comes with unpacking that bag. I know I'll find many crushed M&M down out the bottom of the bag, but its something I have to do, in order to close the door on these chapters of my life.

I believe each person's road to recovery is as unique as our own fingerprint....no two are exactly alike. Similar perhaps, but all have unique nuances and characteristics all of our own. The focus and priority for me is not centered around finding out the exact reason as to why I fell prey to this addiction-I'm not sure there's enough time for that!

I stand here today, humbly, yet proud, for I have whole heartedly embraced the fact that I am powerless when it comes to gambling. But I've also gained so much from that admission. I am more powerful and passionate about holding onto all the beautiful facets of my life that are unfolding before my eyes. Like a very good friend of mine suggested-Building a better past! These delectable M&M's will be handled with the utmost care, hopefully, never to be crushed again.

Love to all of you-be well and stay strong! One M&M...one day at a time!

Tagg

There is so much good stuff here. I'm going to print the replies out and put them in a notebook I've started to keep. It means so much to me that I have found people who understand and relate and have wisdom to share. Thanks everyone :)

I don't know. Often times I have told myself that I could go occasionally and sometimes I could leave, and sometimes I could win and leave, but two days ago I spent the whole rent and I have children who need me so in my mind right now I am just fooling myself when I think that I can handle it. I too am trying to tell myself that it's okay. Sometimes I think being in that neutral place where i don't beat myself up for going feels healthier. Right now though I know that i am going to forgive myself , be gentle with myself, but also realize that guess what i can't go to the casino and control myself so I guess I will try the counting thing .

I understand what you mean.

As I read your post, I was thinking "hmmm this could be interpreted by someone as an excuse to keep gambling", but I understand that that's not your intention.

I suppose there's two answers to your question - a simple one, and a complicated one.

The simple answer is, if gambling is causing (further) problems in your life, then simply stopping will stop these (further) problems.

The complicated answer is, there's an assumption that we have a void in our life which ultimately causes us to gamble. Can we be 'recovered' if we stop gambling but fail to fill this void? Probably not, but it sure as hell makes things not as bad if we didn't go gambling.

I don't think a lot of what we do here, and what I presume goes on in GA meetings, are designed to help us deal with those voids in our lives, because it can be so varied. The extent of help provided is to just address our gambling addiction.

The second part of your question was, do the days represent our progress? Probably not in all cases, but it might be the best measure we have. The true measure will be to what extent we've filled the voids in our lives, but measuring that would be one of quality, not quantity.

I agree with you all...what a wonderful, thought-reflecting post this thread had become. I know I can relate to each and every post and point of view. I think we all recognize there are reasons why we allowed gambling to overtake us and lead us into an arena of oblivion in our lives...in simple words, an escape from whatever pains us. If that issue is ever addressed in our lifetime, the results of gambling will remain the same. I don't believe if I ever look my demons in the eye, the urge to gamble will disappear or, better yet, I will miraculously be able to "gamble responsibly"...whatever that phrase means...lol. The reality is, gambling was / is an escape that I must forever put behind me. The results of gambling is what I need to avoid to make my life better in a significant way. Gambling destroys our lives and unless that is our intent, a slow form of suicide, than gambling must be a memory of days gone by when we made some mistakes and corrected them for a happier now and tomorrow. Only a gambler will understand the consequences of relapse and simply making our particular gambling weakness not an option.

I want to add too about our particular gambling weakness. One of the straws that I did not accept at GA was the absolutely no gambling of any kind. I know for myself not every game or form of gambling is addictive for me. There are some that I can play responsibly...(ok, guess I do know what that means). I know my weaknesses are simply video poker and blackjack. When the lottery reaches over 100 mil, I may, or may not buy a ticket. There simply is not a compulsion to do so, just a fun thing to do. But we do have to recognize how to keep the innocent form of entertainment in tact and recognize immediately if there are ever the signs of addiction to stop immediately.

One other thought...maybe counting the days is just our way of saying "see, I can do this" when the urges strike us. Just know it's not impossible to have good time behind us and breathe through the urge.