Kit, wonderful, very explanatory list. Maybe some are able to skip some of these stages but I went through each one of them and had to learn much before I was ready for the next stage. It was definitely two steps forward and one step back.

Kamary, you capture the feelings precisely. If there is a lower low than when your child tells you (or doesn't even bother to tell you), that they disrespect all you have done for them and want nothing more to do with you, I do not know what it is. You did it all for them, and they tell you that you were a failure at it. But we have to go on. We must go on.

Thank you my dear lady friends!

--EJ

Kamary, it's been a rocky road indeed, but we've been there for each other each time one of us has stumbled along the way. It really is empowering to know that we're not alone and that there really is a lot of crazy stuff out there... Until we fully accept that other people's bad behaviour has nothing to do with us and who we are, we're going to be on that merry-go-round of self doubt, guilt and depression.

Epic, you bring so much wisdom to this group. I know exactly what you mean by two steps forward and one step back. I still find the estrangement from my siblings baffling and hurtful at times, but I don't really FEEL it anymore, if that makes sense? It's more like an echo of a storm that has already passed by.

Hugs to you both

Kit

Kit, when you say that you wonder about the estrangement and its hurtful impact, yet you don't really FEEL it anymore - to me that is the pinnacle we need to reach. I hope we will have more on the "mindfulness" training. I get it but its like exercise - you have to keep doing it or you lose it. Just when I think I'm over it, another perpetrator will do something else and it triggers all those old thoughts. I have been practicing your "stop sign" approach, which is really good when it kicks in before my sense of outrage does.

Christmas will bring alot of triggers. I am glad I will be away for most of it.

hugs,
--EJ