It happens, I also held back, wish I would have stood up for my self more. Abuse is wrong, and a person can only deal with it for so long. I went No contact, because I was sick of the texts, emails, calls just telling me what a horrible person I was. They can treat me bad, but I better not say a word. I was never disrespectful to anyone, and didnt say anything, and when I did, they were shocked and mad. You get what you give, I wont take it anymore. If you feel bad, thats because you are normal and have feelings of remorse, some people do not, they do what they want regardless how they hurt others.

It's probably healthier to get the anger out there rather than internalising it. The trouble with scapegoaters, though, is that they use any reaction from us to further their cause and keep the 'game' going.

Remember, at heart they're absolute cowards!

Correct, if you give them any information they will twist it and use it against you. Those are Narcissist and Psychopaths, all whole different dynamic.

worst thing bottling up that anger ,so I agree got to let it out . . Right now I am angry with my mother but I am not going to respond. I will respect my anger and use it to fuel a healthy outlet, maybe take a long walk and chant my favourite sayings, interspersed with plenty of swear words.

How people treat you is their karma, how I react is my karma.

I think holding it in and bottling up will eventually lead to an outburst of some kind - either anger shown to the scapegoaters (or significant and innocent others), or ill health.

So it's important to find some kind of outlet that works for you. I like to walk barefoot outside, listening to and watching the nature around me. Cleaning has long been an outlet too. When I separated from my ex and during the divorce, I would dig in the garden, let myself cry as much as i wanted, and I learned how to curse (LOL) in the privacy of my own home. I beat rugs too. And the best of all was talking to my therapist. She was an absolute boon.

I am easing my own problem with scapegoating by distancing. I'm still in contact with my family but I no longer stay overnight with any of them, and I will calmly stand up to them now if they try to pick a fight or put me down. I'm deciding what my limits are (boundaries) and am learning to defend my boundaries calmly and firmly. It's working:)

love and hugs
kamary

All - I feel the same, I kept my angry feelings in check for so many years, after visiting family, I would come home feeling defeated and angry, after telephone calls I felt the same. I do agree that it leads to ill health, I feel after the past few years that I have been changed forever by the letters, emails, phone calls etc. Eventually I told them, very briefly!!, what they could do with their letters etc and now I have been told that they wont be speaking to me again after what I said. After all of the years of abuse from them they have now turned the tables and are making it my problem! Well I am already no contact, I hear this via my 1 and only contact but even that makes me angry, sometimes there seems to be no end to it all, but thats up to me of course to mentally end it for myself. Still Trying.

Tricia, I'm not surprised that your FOO have (attempted) to turn the tables on you... It's what dysfunctional families do, I'm afraid, and I've seen exactly the same thing in my own family.

I think in situations like ours the best thing we can do is be the best we can be and make our own lives as happy and healthy as possible. Success is the best form of revenge, IMO.

Triciaclarke, that's exactly like my family. For decades I have been told I'm self centred, selfish, think I'm better than others, was a terrible mother, and on and on. When I finally stand up for myself.... after literally decades... I'm made out to be the bad one again. No matter what we do, we can't win. I have once and for all decided that I will have as little contact with my foo as possible. My text messages, sent two weeks ago, we indeed quite cutting, but they were long overdue. Funny how everything goes only one way with these people. They can give it, but they sure can't take it.

BBB exactly, 'they can give it but they sure can't take it', my sentiments too, and unfortunately, at least for me, they now seem to have enjoyed the chance to have their verbal abuse of me, validated, by my response, although they have all validated my 'brother' by sticking by him after finding out that he wrote the disgusting mail to me . I actually think that is the thing which has hurt the most, but say a couple of similar words to them and No No you cant do that. It just seems you cant win, although I dont know what I expected. What these people do to others is destroy the trust you may have had in people in general. I agree, Artemis, that we have to live happy and healthy lives. I do count the blessings I have, but at times, the anger at these people without a conscience, well it gets to you, doesnt it.

Thank you, Artemis000.

Or they make you think you have mental issues,,,being rude right to your face and you think what did i do to deserve this and when i ask them they say its all my head...to make me think i am insane..

This is BAABAABLACKSHEEP back with a different name. I couldn't remember my old name or password so made up a different one. I started this thread almost one year ago. Now, when I read my old posts it makes me sad that I did not stick to my guns and stay away long ago. I only finally went no contact with almost my whole foo this a few months ago. Christmas was the last straw.

I read through all the posts in this thread and am amazed once again how all our stories are so similar. As Shelda states, I have also been told "it's all in your head". It most certainly is not "all in my head".

It still perplexes me how people can dish out such hatred for years and not see it. It confounds me how family can exclude one of their own, act as though they are such a close loving family, but never once reach out to that person (me) to see how I'm doing. Not one email, phone call, or text message saying "________ are you doing ok?" I think this is the part that saddens me the most. Not one. And I have a very large family.

Hi Freetobeme1111 ...I just wrote something about my own sister in another thread!

I think we have to be VERY firm on one specific point:

- these people are psychologically defective and/or very emotionally inept

You have to deal with them like you would deal with a retarded person. They don't have proper empathy.

.,.And everytime we find ourselves HURT and asking WHY? by their actions; or feelings messed up about what is real after interaction with them ... it is important to remind oneself that these people are ABNORMAL.

It takes a lot of strength to be able to withstand such invalidating behaviours and not have it effect you, especially when it is your own family.

A tremendous amount of inner strength is needed.

As soon as one starts taking their behaviour personally, you are sucked back in to the whole problem again.

Can't have your cake and eat it: if these people are wrong, messed up etc, we can't EVER expect them to validate this. You HAVE to "smile and nod" to use a phrase. Let their invalidation wash right over you. Cultivate the ability to not react to it.

WHO needs their approval? ...And by NOT needing their validation, you are giving YOURSELF validation.!!!!!

That can become the black sheep's mantra. -A really difficult ask, yes. But what alternative is there...?

And, if doubt again creeps in, it can be stopped by this awareness: NO ONE, NOT EVEN A NARCISSIST, IN FACT, DESERVES ABUSE.

I just read what I wrote...

we are really stuck between a rock and a hard place. Made to walk a very thin line. On one side is taking too much crap and on the other is letting stuff get to you too much. It's hard to discern what is the real middle.

And to be a black sheep in a family of narcissistic personality types IS to be forced to FIND the precise middle ...because they are so incapable of it themselves, they force one of their party to manage the bulk (if not all) of it for them.

SUCKS. ...But, again, make sure not to take it personally. Make sure to see CLEARLY what is going on, so that we KNOW it is NOT ALL OUR FAULT.

Nor is it ALL our responsibility.

It is like we are forced into doing something which is not fair, and we have to be able to do it at the same time that we recognize that it is not fair. ...Like doing something which does not speak to who we actually are ...whilst NOT losing our sense of who we are.

I try to look at this as some sort of spiritual challenge. ....You and I both can get along well with others (outside of our own families). So I say, we can look at this as a spiritual challenge.

Don't take it personally. Keep validating your own ideas to yourself.

Start meditating or journaling etc.... because this is like honoring your own inner self and feelings. Giving time to your inner self because it is worthy of this respect.

Another mantra I remember: "When you do not go within, you go without" ...even more true for the black sheep of a narcissistic family. And this mantra was for spiritual needs in general- well it is even more fitting for you and me.

I will even add this about my self: I have some narcissistic traits. And I can look at the situation of having the sort of family that I do as an opportunity to grow beyond the narcissitic traits that I have and develop psychologically (since I think that narcissism is really just underdeveloped emotional maturity).

....Another thing that popped into my head as being crucial: It can be so hard to understand just WHY and WHERE the level of hostility and cruelty being directed at oneself is from. It is hard to GET why it is seen by the other person as necessary. As WHY they could think we would deserve to be on the receiving end of it.

...I would try to recall feeling resentment or hostility towards a family member when they have caused harm unthinkingly. And try to hold the feeling - did you feel STRONG? What is behind or at the core of this feeling.

If we find that a good deal of weakness or hidden vulnerability is behind it, then we give ourselves insight. So that, when we see hostility directed at us from a family member, we can know that they are actually feeling threatened and vulnerable - dreading being exposed as weak. This way, we are diffusing the situation, that keeps us on this merry-go-round of constant back and forth.

We have to diffuse it. And we have to be strong enough to not get sucked back into it, even if it takes many attempts.

It is frustrating, though. I have been trying to accomplish the above for over 15 years. And I have had some wonderful success early on, only to fall back into the crap again. ...VERY VERY FRUSTRATING. It seems to never end.

And yet, I grant my self frustration at having such a family. Because there is NEXT TO NO/NO HELP from them. It is very lonely. ....No wonder they BAND together then, when they psychological way of being within such systems is so dysfunctional. A scapegoat is necessary for them to be able to function in life: they cannot manage their own negative emotions -they HAVE to displace them outwards for somebody else to look after. And then blame this somebody else for having cause the problems.

BE STRONG. SOUND OUT YOUR THOUGHTS. GIVE YOURSELF A VOICE. Honor your experience and be brutally honest but wonderfully forgiving of any weaknesses you have. -Remember the hare and the tortoise... I have long suspected that this fable is a central theme in curing narcissistic issues. That bullies bullying is based on illusions, like the hare really having a significant advantage over the tortoise, when the difference was never so big, and when time can easily alter this difference and turn it upside down.
I think that narcissists are afraid of their inner vulnerability and flaws ...and this ironically is what MAKES them flawed. ...Don't get sucked in by all the fear mongering, that is at the heart of these pitiful family systems.

Try and find healthy people who don't have the kill or be killed aggression that I find so disgustingly prevalent in my family (and by the sounds of it yours' too).