if she didn't even fulfill the first obstacle (which was attending church together), why should the obstacle change? if she wants to baby-sit your children, she needs to FIRST tackle the first thing (going to church). then another obstacle should be presented and so on and so forth until BOTH parents feel that she is capable of watching their children.

i don't think your husband realizes that he is enabling his mom in this situation. he doesn't want to upset his mother? but he's willing to sacrifice his children's well-being and health just so his mom can sit pretty on the "i win" chair?

that doesn't make any sense. and you are not wrong in your thinking. hubby needs to rethink his priorities...i think this situation with his mom is taking a toll on him and he feels it's easier to just give in to her demands than to make sense of it...

talk to him about this. your MIL needs to fulfill the suggestion made by the counselor and THEN will you consider moving further along in what's to be done.

it's like any other process. in school, do they hand out diploma or degrees before even teaching the material??

I fully agree that an adult family memeber can gradually win back the confidence as they prove themselves over time; but that ensuring that the children are protected both physically as well as with life's lesson that we do not tolerate abusive behaviour within our family.

If MIL has decided that church is not her thing then alternate activities can be suggested. I'm not sure whether by making suggestions you will be seen as 'controlling', however, you should be able to show your husband that you are trying to make this work within boundries that have you feeling that your children are safe.

Take care

Well, counseling was about 1/2 over and MIL stormed out when she realized I wasn't backing down. I called her on several points by proving she was lying to the counselor to make me look bad. The first was when she said I rubbed it in her face not allowing her to babysit for hubby's and my anniversary dinner. I never discussed it with you I said. You posted it all over facebook she said. I never posted anything and pulled my facebook page up in proof. In the end, she had to admit that she found out through the grapevine that my friend babysat for our dinner out. MIL put hubby (her son) on the spot by saying she wanted to hear it from his mouth not mine that she can't babysit. He told the story of how he walked into the house to drop off work papers (as my MIL was "working" from home that day) and assumed one of his adult sisters must be over because of the way she was screaming at someone (the girls have screaming matches with their mom when they don't get what they want) only to find out she was screaming at his 3 year old niece that way. MIL flew into a rage and stormed out. Prior to storming out, we discussed doing the church thing and possible dinner afterwards (which she agreed to in October) again. She said I was controlling and asked hubby if I was really going to let it be like this. Hubby didn't answer and counselor interjected that she agreed to it previously when I wasn't even present so I wasn't controlling the situation. He asked her if she'd commit to it and she said whatever I can get. Sigh, it's an utter waste of time. Counselor suggested hubby text MIL on Friday to invite her to go to Mass with us ( being more intentional is what counselor said). Hubby doesn't want to because he doesn't want to deal with it but I told him he should since we agreed to allow her to see the kids in Mass with us present. I know full well if we don't follow the counselor suggestion, MIL will use it against us and hubby will cave. By being intentional, she has no excuses.

i think you're handling it well. i'm somewhat in the same boat with my in-laws. namely my MIL and BIL. i suggested family therapy with them, but my husband said his family would not agree to it, as his family would insist the counselor was just taking my side or that i would manipulate the counselor as i've supposedly been manipulating my husband.

any form of communication from me to them is just a waste of time as no matter what i do, they think i'm being manipulative. i don't even include myself in their conversations and now i'm being "rude".

so, damn if i do and damn if i don't.

Shai I understand. I hope that you don't have to deal with them much. Since I left the family business, my life has become much happier. Our kids are more relaxed now too because I'm not so stressed (especially our daughter). How does hubby deal with it when they accuse you of manipulating things? **HUGS**

I'm sorry to have to say this, but it does sound controlling and manipulative to force her to sit through a church service in order to spend time with her son and grand-children. You say your family spends most of their time at church, but it is necessary to respect the right of others to make up their own minds about such things. It would be kinder to have regular family outings that she can look forward to, say a picnic, a trip to the zoo etc.
This way she would have time with her family and you would know that your children will not be exposed to verbal violence.
Have you told her the reason why you don't want her to babysit? We are never too old to learn consequences.

Mae - he says he doesn't feel he is being manipulated. but he is not willing to give consequences or set boundaries with his family, as he feels this whole thing is really nothing.

Rain - i believe her MIL had AGREED to going to church with them in the beginning. if she hadn't agreed in the first place, i'm sure they would have found something more fitting. but since MIL agreed, MIL should at least go once to show she is TRYING.

just my opinion...