this argument is being fought on many levels as far as the registry goes. Im sure you can find the legal definition in many posts on here.

:)

From Wikipedia: Cruel and unusual punishment is a phrase describing punishment which is considered unacceptable due to the suffering, pain, or humiliation it inflicts on the condemned person.

Yes, and then the argument will be made that the sex offender has condemned the victim to a lifetime of cruel and unusual self punishment because of the damage caused by the sex offender. This, of course, is the typical justification that people make. And it is reinforced by a society that glorifies victimhood.

A better way to about this is to use the phrase, "what you resist persists". So, throwing around perceptions of who is the most cruelly victimized doesn't really help in the long run. Of course, victims of sex crimes are harmed. Of course, those of us who victims of reactionary laws are harmed. But, ultimately, we end up just beating each other over the head and the problem persists.

I believe that eventually this problem will only be resolved with creative thinking on th level of Ghandi or Martin Luther King. I don't have answer for this, but I would encourage this group to start thinking in new ways.

There's also a saying from Einstein..."you can't solve a problem at thep level thinking that created it."

Oops. Sorry I left out so many words....Happy Friday!

Peekachu, what about the SOs, that have no victims, such as under cover police sting ops, or persons who were charged with indecent exposure for taking a piss outdoors and being seen, and MANY other circumstances where nobody was touched, harmed, or hurt? Thats the argument Peekachu. Are you saying that just because you have that label, you have violated another human being?

"Yes, and then the argument will be made that the sex offender has condemned the victim to a lifetime of cruel and unusual self punishment because of the damage caused by the sex offender. "

then i guess you could argue that they are no better than a SO
lol

"There's also a saying from Einstein..."you can't solve a problem at thep level thinking that created it." "
from the creator of the atom bomb. well he didn't create it but his theories did. lol

I'm not saying that having the label says that you have violated another human being. I'm saying that this is the way many people think. They are closed to any other way of thinking.

I really admire the way you guys are looking at the way the laws are written and how to deal with things on this level. I think that needs to be done. We all need to be involved in that. What I am saying is that ultimately the whole issue will need to be looked at from a completely different perspective if we want to "solve the problem." And I mean the problem from a broad perspective.

That's why I was talking about someone who thought on the level of a Ghandi or Martin Luther King. There are many ways that people violate each other, not just sexually. I was violated by bullies at work about 6 years ago. It took me a long time to recover. What they did to me at work would be against the law in Australia, but not here. Does that mean I think that the law should have been involved? No.

I think we need to make the legal fight, but we also need to stay open to new ways to think about what we are doing. I 100% believe that the public registry needs to be abolished. I believe that it is punishment after punishment. But I also believe that our entire society needs some kind of attitude adjustment. And, you know, this includes us. Sex offense and the registry isn't just our problem. These issues wear away at the total fabric of our society.

So, I know you guys have been through a lot. Sparkyman, I read about your heart attacks. I'm so sorry. Ever since I was thrust into this mess two years ago, I've been through a lot, too. I've spent a lot of time just being sick. The registry and "tough on crime" laws that are outrageous cause a tremendous amount of pain...for all of us.

So, what do we do? We put up the good fight. Keep on going, guys. I'm with you. But let's also reflect on what we are learning from this. What can we do, as we fight to eliminate the registry to help people feel less afraid? What can we do to change the social attitudes that empower lawmakers to make these laws? What can we do to support each other so that we don't have the urge to violate in the first place? (OK, I get it that that's a big order, but I am just thinking out loud here.)

So, we have some good arguments. With the right politicians in place, we could conceivably be able to eliminate the registry. But if the people are still afraid, how long do you think that would last? I suspect that something else just as creepy would show up to take its place.

Food for thought.

Now I understand what you are saying and agree 100%

@ peekachu the Auisse bulling laws where brought in because a young lady killed her selfe over what she was going though it was a extreme case. I do think the laws for that down hear are way over the top and like the so laws it has hurt the families of the guys who where involed....no iam not say its right what they did. I just wanted to give you a bit more info on that one.

do they have a registry for bullies? do they send flyers to everyone in the community? sometimes the law makers are nuts in the head, and come up with the most silly things.

They certainly do come up with "silly" things...when they can get reelected feeding off people's fear.
And thanks for the info from Aussie friend, such as life. In the US, workplace bullying accounts for about 4% of suicides, so this is not insignificant, but very little is done about it in this country. If there were a registry for workplace bullies, I suspect some pretty powerful, high dollar people would be on it....that would never happen.

anti bully laws sound like another can of worms...why cant we have programs that teach the victims how to empower themselves instead?

Totally agree, jackiecook. There are continuing education programs for businesses. There are sex offender treatment programs. There is only one program, B4U-ACT, that I know of in this country that provides support to people who are at risk to offend sexually to support them in staying law abiding. Of course, they receive a great amount of distorted press and are shunned by many. There needs to be change to ameliorate fear in general and specifically around sex offence before the insanity stops. Britain and Canada have COSA(circles of support and accountability) and Germany has Dunkelfeld. What do we have? Mostly double barreled shotguns pointed in our faces all the time. Even Darkness to Light, which is an excellent program to teach people how to protect children still portrays offenders as monsters in the closet. We are all together on this planet and we are interconnected in ways we don't even imagine. We have to do better with this...for everyone's sake.

@ anarchy304 they where talking about doing that. The case that brought in these law was in the news a lot and they made sure that they said the names of the people involved what cafe it happened at to say the least they made it trial by media. The guys who where involved can't go back to that area to live or work and there families had to move. The guys got the maximum amount that they could give them mind you they only got done because of the note she left.
Yes there needs to be something in place 4% is a lot and I think that there needs to be something in place for people who are going though this.
As fair as sex offender corses go down hear each state is a bit different for us its eather a 3 month or 6 months of classes that they do while in prison its from what we have worked out a pretty intensive corses coz they won't let them work whill doing it. Yes they do have to register but right now in my state its not public but we are all waiting for that to change.