Do not EVER change yourself, Pickingup!

The reason you can't understand why your stbx could treat you so cruelly is because HE changed. You didn't. HE quit loving you. YOU did not quit loving him. This is the case with most of us here and once you accept that, it is easier to move on. The reason you and I could never have done that to our exes was BECAUSE we still loved them. Our exes didn't love us. They may initially, but then, they changed. So, please, please, please, Pickingup...do not ever change who you are. You KNOW how to love and what it truly means. You are lucky in that way.

HUGSS
SO

I totally agree with starting. We did not waver in our love and commitment...they did. I am one of the few who have been able to talk to my ex about what happened and get honest answers. It didnt help with the heart ache but it put things into perspective which allowed me to let it all go and focus on myself and my personal healing. Since I am divorced twice to the same man I think there was the thought in the back of my mind that thought he would change his mind again...that was part of the reason it took so long for me to move forward. In the beginning I struggled with the same questions you are right now...it was just so hard for me to get my head around his actions and lack of empathy for me. You have to just keep telling yourself...its not me its him...Big Hugs..Kathy

I don't know about "winning and losing," I think we both lost. However, I know I've been changed.
Although I've been able to stay open hearted, even becoming more compassionate through the divorce, I have lost my ability to trust. I don't know if it's for now or forever, but it's not there. I no longer ask anything that would put someone in a position to lie to me. I ask about facts or their opinions, and only about things that don't matter enough to lie about.
The advantage is I no longer have to worry about if someone is telling the truth or not, it doesn't matter anymore and I don't have to get all co-dependent. The disadvantage is, no longer knowing if someone is telling the truth or not, I keep them far enough away that it really has no way of causing trouble for me whether it's true or not.
I avoid the drama and worry, but also avoid intimacy and closeness. Life is a lot calmer and serene, but a little lonelier.

"Do you think some ex spouses do "IT"........... Answer: IT is not you, but IT is one's own inside job. The animated movie "Inside Out" about the little voices inside one's head is a clever way of depicting their behavioral responses.

Maybe this is food for thought. But for me, it's not important as to how "it" is done by the ex, but rather, what response I choose from knowing the ex's act WAS done. In other words, what do I do with the information is up to you.

Tobywinn, I am really starting to realize just how much my stbx has permeated my brain, just how much I let him. It's scary just how much power I gave up to him. Was it just easier to have someone take care of me? It's always so good to have someone to lean on. I have so much to work on. The above question is a biggie but now I have to work on defining what success looks like for me. For so long, how I judged being successful meant how he saw it. PHD. Tenure track at a research institution. Being a researcher not lecturer (even though I would love to just teach.) He used to call those people scrubs. It had to be full time, full benefits, no more than 3 classes a semester. God the list is so long. Never mind that I didn't care about these things. I WOULD love to just have a full time, tenure track job. Heck a full time job. Just getting him out of my head and trying to figure out what I would be happy with is a struggle. It's funny. He's done with academia. He didn't get his dreams as a reasearcher. So all of a sudden, he's been on the government jobs (CIA, NSA) and now with start ups. Towards the end he was trying to have ME start looking for government jobs too. U see he was done so now he didn't care that I was still pursuing my goals. He was done, so it meant I should be done.

I think that's a big part of it. It is beyond my comprehension that a person could treat me like this. I can't understand it and I realize I never will. I am NOT him. That is not how I think. I would never project the way he acts and feels onto myself. It's not possible. I also know what you mean about judging your success was about how he saw success. If he failed, you failed. If he loved to eat steak, you would eat steak. If he was fat, you would feel embarrassed for him. But that's not about you!! You gave him the power to control who you were. You have to take back that power and make it about you. You are in charge of your success, you are in charge of your happiness. If he is a failure, he is a failure, not you.
I have always played a part and never identified who I was as a separate person. I was Lisa's mom, Gene's wife, my mother's daughter, the woman who does all that volunteer work.....I was never Janis who had a daughter named lisa. It is so hard to get your identity back.
When I shopped for groceries I would still buy what he liked. Eventually I discovered I like vegetables. I do not like steak.....it's incredible feeling finding out who you really are and who you were meant to be if not for his control of you.
You are getting so strong!

Thanks. Jljlost, u are getting strong too. TODAY I CHANGED MY FIRST DIAPER! Well, not mine but my nephew's! lol. Then he crawled into my arms and fell asleep. THIS WAS A HUGE STEP FOR ME. My stbx said he won't have children with me because I am not capable. I can't take care of kids. he would have to do that too. I never understood this. I took care of him! I cried after my nephew fell asleep in my arms. I was crying because I saw the level to which he believes I am nothing. He has completely devalued you. He thinks I am incapable. No wonder he said I would always be a mess and I am not a functioning adult. The truth is I bought into his image of me but a part of me never believed it. How can I be so incompetent and be succeeding at a phd and teaching on the college level? Got my drivers license with a perfect score on the first try or learned 2 languages from scratch to pass my foreign language exams? how can I be so unlovable when ALL of my 7 nieces and nephews love me? They are children after all. They want to be around good people who nurture and make them feel safe. The image he has presented and the reality are so at odds but I know that once they are in the throes of the affair they re-write history and we become monsters.

Pickingup,
You ask the same question I have been pondering for 2 years. I had my ex on a pedestal and idolized him. How he ended our marriage is something I never dreamed he would ever do. I am still shocked that this "nice" guy did what he did. He was so mean and nasty and I try to recall that when I find myself missing him and feeling that I still love him. I need to understand that I should not feel love for a person that did that and said the most awful things to hurt me. So you are not alone with your question. Most of us wonder how their exes did what they did to us. You actually are doing so very well. I think that you will be much better off and have a much happier life someday. You are right - if your family loves you - then you are loveable. You sound like a very loveable and kind person. Keep up the great work! It takes effort and you are putting in the work to get through this.
Hugs to you,
Donna

I believe I do have to change a little. In addition to being open, loving, forgiving, kind, respectful and compassionate towards others, I have come to understand that I need to start treating myself this way, too.

I have spent most of my life doing all that I could to make my ex feel loved and happy. I think I made a mistake. In working so hard to make his life happy, I forgot about taking care of me.

So I am thinking Yes, I want to continue to be open, loving, forgiving and kind, but I want to first do these things for myself so that I can come as a whole person to a new relationship.

No more making my life all about another, putting up with being treated badly for the sake of 'love', I'd like a relationship which is between two people who meet in the middle with respect.

love and hugs
kamary