If only we could be unfeeling and have no long term attachment. But of coursethat's not possible.
But if we could, we can see a pattern of another "tribe".. Not one we belong to but they are "out" there.So maybe there are two tribes ....us and that other tribe that we definately DON'T belong to.

The pattern of that other tribe doesn't seem to change. They have no reliable conscience, no sense of loyalty, some pattern of destruction (most often themselves), and are somewhat cowardly (which is why they lie) and exhibit low self esteem.

What are "our" tribe to do about this? Well we are here and giving each other support. We are helping each other to learn about people that we don't understand. WE know absolutely that we are good people and should absolutely forgive ourselves for the fact that they have beaten us down and have confused us. We shouldn't waiver on the fact that we are very valuable human beings and there are people out there who will never get it. Unfortunately we married and devoted ourselves to those disfunctional people.

The cream always rises to the top. It's never too late. peace and happiness, Lucy

My husband left in October, so I am still very new to this (although it seems like an eternity).
He has totally re-written history, and feels like everything that is and has ever been wrong in his life is my fault.
I have to constantly remind myself that he is wrong and I am a good person, and that I cannot control what he thinks of me, so I might as well get over it :) Easier said than done.

LMB, it takes time to work through the emotions following separation and divorce. It's different for each person.

It's been close to 4 years for me, and I still have times when I wonder what went wrong and why couldn't my ex have tried harder to make our marriage a good one. Why did he leave it all to me? What did I do that made him choose not to be with me even though he didn't leave the marriage? I believe I've found some possible answers which comfort me, but until my ex can tell me himself, I have no idea what actually happened. I wonder if he knows himself. All I know is that I became so lonely in our marriage, I felt so abandoned and rejected that I felt like a part of me was dying, and I had to escape before I lost the battle altogether.

Now that I know more, I recognise his behaviour as passive aggressive and in the end, narcissistic. I responded in the typical way of spouses of these people and eventually, I realised that if I were to survive, I had to get away. I'm one of those you talk about who is sooo happy to have gotten away.

Just because your ex accuses you of being passive aggressive doesn't mean that you are. They also have the happy knack of accusing their spouse of the very behaviours they have themselves! They like to project their emotions onto others, especially anger, and then enjoy watching us squirm with the power of the emotions. I can distinctly remember the smirk on my ex's face whenever he managed to make me explode with anger in the last days of our marriage.

I would suggest that you find a good therapist who can help you work through your emotions, feelings and thoughts about what happened in your marriage, what your ex did to you, and what he said to you. Then they will be able to help you find your self again, to learn to trust yourself again, and help you regain your self-confidence and peace of mind.

The cream does always rise to the top, as Lucy says.

love and hugs
kamary

I am experiencing the same thing with my ex. I wrote a journal entry about it; he also carries a lot of anger towards me, is rude, disrespectful, etc. I totally ignore him and take the high road.

I only communicate with him if I absolutely have to, usually concerning legal issues (we still share a leased property). But when I deal with him, I do it through writing. I don't call. I don't know where he lives and don't want to know.

It seems he and his skank ho/now wife continue to want to engage me and I simply do not respond.

There is really nothing you can do about closure. You have to get that in your own way. PA types will never admit they are wrong, and he will always likely try to blame you. You have to remember it is HIS PROBLEM not yours.

I would suggest if you are having issues with how YOU should handle him, I would recommend counseling. It sounds like you still have some unresolved issues from the divorce.

Sending loads of hugs!

Kamary pretty well took the words out of my mouth -- and especially what she suggested about getting into therapy. I know of very few women who survived being abandoned by their husbands who didn't get into some kind of counseling in the aftermath of it.

As to the CLOSURE you talk about, here are some random notes I have found here and there that address that issue:

Today many people use the idea of closure to suggest that a happy conclusion is possible in every relationship. That is not true. Closure does not happen between people. It happens within us. We say to ourselves, “This is done. It is finished. This is what was accomplished in the relationship; this is what could not be accomplished. Now I begin again.”

We cannot demand closure from others. They get to be who they are. When we demand closure, what we are really saying is, “I won’t change. I want my answer. I want my prize.” But that will never work for you because your lover is not the patsy of your desires.

You are like a writer who can’t finish a book. The closure you seek can only come from within. Ask yourself why a “very happily married” person would seek to commit adultery. Answer that and you will have both the closure and the closure to this affair.

We all have needs. There's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship that fills your needs in a healthy way. No relationship is perfect, and it's very important to understand what you need from a relationship, what you can do without, and, -- more importantly -- what you already have inside yourself.

Closure doesn't come from having endless tearful conversations with the ex. You broke up because the relationship was not filling one of the partner's needs. Those conversations should only happen if you really think that something will change and those needs will start being filled.

I think that true closure comes when you care enough about yourself to know that you deserve to have those needs filled.

One other thought about what you have written here -- what your X is saying (and thinking) about you is part of the psychological behavior called "PROJECTING." When he says these things to you, he is projecting ONTO YOU what he knows is true about himself. It is typical behavior for those who abandon; for those who are narcissistic. Turn a deaf ear to it. There is no reason why you have to be "friends" with him and very few reasons why you would need to communicate with him directly. You will eventually get over these "knots in the stomach" when he contacts your daughter. Trust me on this -- with some more time, the only feelings you will have toward him will be ambivalent. As you move forward into your New Life without him, he will have less and less influence on your thoughts and feelings. Time, my friend, and no contact are the keys.

Agree with the 'projecting' point. My X did it our whole life and I had no idea.

My husband is playing the victim in all this. It is utterly amazing. I am so upset I can hardly put 2 sentences together. He was livid that I had someone stay with kids while I was out of town for work. My kids asked for that. My older daughter told him that directly.

He screamed and yelled at me about it. He told me he was "going to screw me to the wall". He was going to have the sheriff arrest me. He was not going to pay any support/alimony. etc... etc...

He is sending me emails to make sure I know about the court ordered parenting class. He has caused great distress for his children and he is blaming me.

I did find my closure. At least I found things that allowed me to accept my marriage was over and leave. Mine is passive aggressive along with being very manipulative. He allowed me to find those things about him because he wanted out of our marriage. I didn't crawl away, I ran just as fast as I could.

You do have to find closure within yourself. Yes, he is projecting his PA actions off onto you. He had to leave them somewhere when they get too much. Of course it must have been your fault because an N never accepts blame for anything. I'm sure if you think about it this is what he did during your marriage. You will find acceptance and gradually realize you really don't need closure and like fine cream you will rise to the top and live a really good life.

((((HUGS)))

He's a ass...

He is sooooooo full of it. Yes, you know what he is full of! He just doesn't want to take the time out of his new life to see his daughter and it is soooooooo convenient for him to blame you!!!!! Stop buying into his nonsense. It is ridiculous. He's a little boy who wants to get his way (a new life with no responsibilities from the old)!!!!!! How do I know this? Let me ask you, if the shoe were on the other foot, could ANYTHING or ANYONE keep you from seeing your daughter? NO!!!!!

And speaking of PA, it is obvious that he is the one who is PA, HE is the definition of PA.

Unfortunately, you can't protect your kids from the hurt that their father will cause them so just do your best to be mother and father. He is useless.

Prayers and hugs!
Diane

"He thinks I'm being immature by not being able to have an adult relationship." In truth, anything he claims negative about you has NO POWER and isn't worth two cents! Learn to tell him to JUMP IN THE LAKE. There is no importance of what the ex THINKS of you. You do not give him the authority to label you and tell him to shut his pie hole. My dear, you are learning to take a very different and realistic perspective of self definition. My comment suggests to reconsider and debunk his ill fatal perspectives . His insanity thinking is just a tip of his own sick immaturity. Indeed you do have closure! Closure is what you say, it is determined by your choice, and is ENFORCED by your refusal to be involved.

You can control conversations with him, if need to be. You express the subject matter [example money and children]... point blank. "This is what I'm going to talk about !" The second he attacks your character, Shut it down, hang up, and walk away. " I'm not interested" and "We're done talking" are examples. This gives you control. Take it and practice.

The bottom line is...it really doesn't matter. I know in the beginning we just cant get our heads around the crap they spew about the marriage. There point of view is so distorted from ours...its almost like they were in a different marriage. You question yourself and your sanity. You wonder...where was I while all this crap was happening...why didnt I see it. They zero in on that doubt and use it to there advantage to justify there actions.... I sometimes think they really dont even know there doing it. They make us out to be horror's...we start to sort of believe it...not 100%...but enough to make us question and feel self doubt. The pain is unbearable to boot. Dont let it in! He is wrong and somewhere inside yourself you know that's true. It doesnt matter what he thinks or says...he's an idiot.

Dealing with it and coming to a place of indifference takes time and a lot of counselling. I'm almost 3 years post divorce and I'm not quite there either. I'm much better than I was a year ago but he can still get to me. I do believe indifference will come. I do believe I will be able to let his crap roll off my back and just shrug my shoulders and say...ohhh well.

You have more to deal with than most...you daughter needs your continued care...you need to give yourself a break and not try to fix everything. If your ex is being an ass...you cant change that. If he's making you out to be unreasonable...thats his problem. His anger towards you is not really about you...its about himself. Remember...when you point a finger at someone...you have 3 pointing back at yourself. We see in others...our own faults..he is using you as a mirror reflection. Just let it bounce off of you and know in your heart you are the better person in it all. If you can...summon up pity for him because he is pitiful. Work on your issues and let him marinate in his....Big Hugs...Kathy

Dairytech-well said. I KNOW it, but I can't always keep myself from reacting to him.

Lostandalone: You wrote " He told me he was "going to screw me to the wall". He was going to have the sheriff arrest me. He was not going to pay any support/alimony. etc... etc... "

Don't give that man the time of day. He is BLOWING SMOKE out of his a**. You don't have to listen to it.