My Ex and I did marriage counseling. He didn't want to work on his issues, he was only interested in mine. Any advice the counselor gave, the EX said it was "optional" because it was a suggestion. The last session the counselor said, "I can do no more for the two of you, goodbye and good luck. Call if you think you need to." I basically saw it as counselor throwing in the towel, the EX saw it as we graduated or something. Not long after that we divorced. So yeah, I can relate

I tried marriage counceling for his cheating. He got caught(first of many), and we decided to do counceling -it was a complete joke. All it did was make him angry, and we'd fight more on our way home. No honesty, maturity, empathy or listening for him. Everything was my fault and I had no right to feel the way I did. Talk about chipping away at self esteem over and over again.

I didn't get anything out of it except disappointment. Bottom line is: You need to WANT to go, not be forced into it, which is what I was doing to him. BIG MISTAKE. But then again, who the hell want's to admit that they need therapy?

I mostly went for therapy on my own. The few times my ex came, he either charmed the counsellor into thinking it was all my problem, or if they thought he should make some changes, he would refuse to go again.

One actually told him "if you don't do something, you'll come home one day and she'll be gone" and he ignored him and refused to go back.

I saw another one first, on my own, with a view to gaining the courage to leave. She talked me into asking him to come along for couples counselling. Next thing, I was the problem and what I needed to do was bare my breasts while doing the gardening?! Excuse me? She completely ignored everything I'd told her. Needless to say, I didn't go back that time, and there were no bare boobs in my garden - not mine, anyway.

We went for counselling again at my ex's insistence after I told him I wanted a divorce. She announced that we were hurting each other (surprise!) and would benefit from a separation. He had the first consultation and after that, it was like whatever I said, it didn't matter to her. I was the problem. I'd love to know what he said. As I've said many times before, he has the 'silver tongue' and can convince anyone of anything. He would prove the old adage "he could sell ice to the eskimos".

I agree that one needs to want to go to therapy or it's just not going to work. Trouble is my ex's only want was to convince the counsellor that he wasn't at fault and do no work on himself at all.

My sister had the chance to spend some time alone with my ex recently and she reports that he hasn't changed one iota. So there you go. And I am so glad that I am free of him. Life is so much more peaceful and full of joyful moments.

love and hugs
kamary

My husband went twice. The first time with me and he walked out and left me there and walked home in the rain (at least he left me the car). The second time he went alone to a different therapist and he came home and told me that he didn't need therapy because she had told him that he was "any woman's dream". He must have told her quite a story too. If she even told him that - what therapist would say that to a man without even hearing the other side?

LOL every woman's dream? Gardening naked? ha ha ha seems like they are all the same at the core doesn't it? I could garden naked, if I wanted to scare the animals off :)

"I wasn't "happy" in my marriage, EVER" and "we have NEVER been happy together", seems to have had been established since matrimony. You've somewhat described in small detail your conclusion was based on his controlling passive behaviors. Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, a form of mental abuse. Your being baffled for years, the confusing, rolling of your eyes, and having to "hide your feelings", are often responses resulting from a spouse's incongruences. My point is, who could make sense of a mate's fickleness! You are correct, you can't manage someone else's behavior nor force them to change nor make them take accountability.

Just as you don't know what "happy" is [it will eventually come back], you also have recognition of the "unhappy" bells ringing off. You're half way there. So maybe your focus is to throw off any assignment of being flawed and start pinning the tail on the pony where it belongs.

Thank Tobywinn,, what I struggle with is actually "pinning the tail where it belongs" because I guess i have been programmed to think everything is somehow my fault. Although I know, rationally this is not the case, but I still struggle. What's interesting, is everyone in my married life thinks my husband is such a great guy. I constantly hear from his co-workers how great he is. Friends think he is wonderful too. But in this process most of the female half of the friends have reached out to me and are supportive, but the male half haven't made an attempt with him, at least I don't think so. His "bad" behavior is only channeled toward ME,, no one else. he had been a great dad and very attentive in a supportive way toward our daughters, but never towards me. my point is, he is capable of being loving and supportive and NOT abusive, but not when it comes to me. It makes me think he just hates me. Around we go back to ,,, what is wrong with me that he hates me? I cannot wait till one day i can exclaim "I'm lovin life" like I've heard some friends say. I have a lot to be grateful for, (4 healthy kids and one fantastic grandson) but I am just not in the "lovin life" catagory. and that brings me back to my spouse telling me years ago that I am an unhappy person, and never content- like it's a personality flaw that I have. I need to get out of here so bad to figure all this out.

Welcome aimeemcoe...sorry for joining this conversation so late. What your feeling is something we've all felt in the early days of divorce. It can be scary and overwhelming. The behaviour your ex has is something a lot of our ex's do...mine was really good at tearing down my self esteem and then somehow making it look like it was a character flaw within me...which made him look like a victim. Research Gas Lighting and Narcissistic Personalities...very enlightening for me...it explained a lot. I think there has been quite a lot of really good articles posted here over the years...perhaps one of our members has some material readily available.

I understand your feelings that your life is over at 52...I felt that way as well in the beginning...but have learned that that is simply not true. I was with my ex for 30 years all together..when he divorced me for the 2nd time at 53 I realized I still had over 20 years of good living yet to do...that is a whole lifetime when you think about it..and I had full control over its direction...in a way...its like being 20 all over again...starting out a new life...only you have all those years of knowledge and life experience under your belt...you could choose to look at it as an adventure and the fear you feel...excitement of the unknown and uncharted ground. When we jump off the cliff into the great abyss of the known unknown...we truly do land on our feet. You will too...trust your intuition and just know you will be OK and what ever obstacle come your way...you are never given anymore than you can handle...Big Hugs...Kathy

I can only say that my seperation after 21 years has been very difficult. I cryed nonstop...I begged the creator to change my life...and a friend...has pushed me to my limits...ticked me off .....made me crazy...but motivated me to be a cab company owner....instead of just a cab driver....I guess what im saying is its ok to get mad....and get motivated even if you dont have a goal yet....youll be shocked at how yoj suddenly are able to be inspired without as much prodding by your friends.?

Of course, others on the outside would think he's great, folks are pretty good at showing their public face. Many here [and myself included] have described our eyewitness observances of a spouse's ability to switch off/on the persona masks when in public vs. the transformation into Mr. Hyde behind closed doors at the marital home. But here's the kicker, preferential treatment of others rather GIVING the preferential treatment toward the spouse is a huge bell ringer to the cognition. So reversing the question "What is wrong with him"? might be more appropriate. It may be that he's got the rules backwards and you decided to own it instead !!

I looked up gaslighting and narcissism. I do think my husband is self centered. He is lazy. He is indifferent. My therapist says he is VERY auditory. He is naturally smart. He was raised on a farm with 4 siblings. He has very little manners- wasn't raised with them. His hygiene habits he learned from ME. When we were first married and living on the farm he worked all day outside and then just hopped into bed. I was pregnant and the smell of him made me sick to my stomach-no kidding. I started crying when I asked him if he would shower and he said he was too tired. He then went to sleep. He doesn't care at all about his appearance. Some days he looks ridiculous in what he wears. When I point this out to him he gets snarky and sarcastic. He doesn't like to be told ANYTHING-- even if it is in a sincere, loving tone. . His dad called all the shots in the family, his mom was a doormat, who was just happy happy happy to breathe. She is not very bright. I guess I don't think of my husband as abusive outright, maybe there is some abusive behaviors in there???? guess it all doesn't matter anymore at this point. Don't know why I typed all this,, a part of me still needs to understand and know that I am not the only one at fault here. If I did nothing, didn't ask for a divorce or make a point of saying the marriage wasn't working, he wouldn't do a thing- he would just keep on keepin on. Again, he is indifferent.

aimeemcoe…..what "feels" like confusion is actually your mind at work stirred by these positive (yes positive), scary moments that happen in divorce. You will discover from within you what the right course of action is for 'you". To put it poetically, you will rise like a phoenix from the fire of divorce. Anyone that's been through it knows it's all consuming and painful on so many levels. When it's over it will be like a boulder is off your shoulders. Im older than you and felt (and at times still do ) just as you "who am I?" No one will "tell" you who you are anymore and thats a good thing. I was afraid of the silence in my home, now I fill it with time to reflect in silence or moments with "my" favorite music. There have been so many excellent responses here but most important "take care of you". I believe "ours" was a generation of "should's" , it will take a little practice to feel the freedom of that pressure being gone. These are just "my" thoughts and i hope there's something of use for you. For my part I "discovered" i love to Kayak…it came at a random silent moment in my house. Theres no one here to tell me "that's stupid" or 'impractical" and as i said "I'm" older than you. Grandma moses didn't start painting until her "70"s !!
I wish you Peace-filled thoughts today.

I agree, if there wasn't any hard core physical or mental abusive you can recall, you really have no official legit complaints. Looking for gas lighting and narcissism seems to be barking up the wrong tree. It's clear you weren't FOND of your stbx much after matrimony. Attacking your stbx hygiene habits might seem PETTY from 30 yrs ago and chic chat about his mother/father relations wasn't quite my idea of pinning the tail on the pony. Often when criticism is delivered sarcastically, most would get snarky.

The bottom line is, you're getting your wish as in divorce. It doesn't matter who he is/was, self-centered or not. It may be more important for you to figure YOU, as in your part , in having gotten into a marital relationship you weren't fond of. Good luck in your exiting of your marriage and hope you find happiness.

This might help you in understanding you've might have selected the idea of the husband rather than the essence of the person.

" How to Tell if You're With the Wrong Guy"

https://shine.yahoo.com/dailyshot/how-to-tell-if-you-re-with-the-wrong-guy-144538693.html?.tsrc=_voice

" Are you in love with him? Or are you just in love with the idea of him? In Holly Peterson's new book "The Idea of Him," the protagonist tackles those tough questions. It's a situa...MoreAre you in love with him? Or are you just in love with the idea of him? In Holly Peterson's new book "The Idea of Him," the protagonist tackles those tough questions. It's a situation familiar to many women. "I think when we go after people, we go after them for a bunch of reasons. Very often it's emotional needs that we're fulfilling," Holly says. "So sometimes we look for the idea of someone to fulfill certain needs we have, before we look at that reality of who that person is across the dinner table from us." Holly says people get so attached to the idea of someone that they don't let themselves realize that the person isn't quite right. So how can you tell if you're on the right track?"

Tobywinn,, HUH? gaslighting/narcissism was suggested to me by another person on this thread, and truly it does apply to my mom. Your comments were upsetting. I was just "venting" I guess about my spouse and why I had such problems to begin with in the relationship. That's all.