Divorce after Twenty years together Community Group
I want to start something for those of us that were married for a long long time. I think that we face a little different issues than those who were dating for a few years or even married for shorter period of time. Being married for so long we have older children some have grandkids dealing with teenagers and their reaction to the divorice empty nesters dating after 40...
I posted a journal entry the other day about the Court Ordered Parenting Class I had to attend. It got a great response so some of my friends on DS suggested I make it a discussion topic. This is my first discusstion topic so here goes.
My state requires both parents to attend a parenting class ( not together) but YOU HAVE TO GO or big trouble. So when I went to the class there was a whole group of us huffing and puffing and PISSED OFF that we even had to be there. The way I felt was I have raised three totally AWESOME KIDS SMART, CARING, LOVING, FUNNY, HAPPY CHILDREN. Plus i'm a teacher I deal with children everyday and have since my oldest was born 25 years ago. My thought since being THROWN into single parenthood was FINANCIAL. I don't like to miss work I don't like my check to be smaller than it should be. I have to count every penny now so missing four and a half hours of work did not sit well with me at all.
About 15 minutes after the class started I knew that this four and a half hours even though it was costing me financially would have cost MY SON ALOT MORE EMOTIONALLY, SPIRTUALLY, AND PHYSICALLY DOWN THE ROAD.
Now I know like me there are alot of you out there that say " Hey i'm doing everything right" or " I never say anything bad about my ex in front of the children" or my favorite " It doesn't matter what I say he or she knows we love them and none of this was there fault" Right WE HAVE ALL SAID IT. What I learned though is that it doesn't have to be anything you say it is also your body language, your attitude even the tone of your voice. Here's a good example just from my experience my son comes back from a visit and IMMEDIATLY I start in with what did you do? Where did you go? Who was dad with? These are all valid questions right I mean what kind of Mom would I be if I wasn't interested in my son's weekend. So all excited he says Dad took me golfing and to the movies we had alot of fun.
My response " Oh that's nice i'm happy for you honey" except when I said it I was rolling my eyes and talking through my teeth. Why because I was pissed off that I can't take him to have any fun because every cent I make goes for rent, food, electricity ect....
My first mistake was NEVER drill your child about there visit because children are very PROTECTIVE and he or she may feel the need to have to LIE because they don't want to upset their parent. In my son's case he actually told me that he didn't want to tell me anymore what he did at his dad's because it always made me cry that I couldn't afford to do these things wiht him. He is 10 so he is understands why i'm sad for not being able to have more fun with him but, he doesn't understand why i'm upset because dad can. To him mom and dad are the same so why does it matter which one takes him to have fun.
Also children know that they are 50% of mom and 50% of dad so if one parent is saying things like " Oh God your dad is such an ass" or " Why does your mom have to be such a bitch" all the child is thinking is "Well if i'm half of my dad then what does she think about me"?
None of us would ever intentionally EVER want to cause our kids more pain. Let's face it during a Divorce especially if your like me I was married for 23 years and my ex just came home from work one day said " Smells good what's for dinner mama"? Then after dinner told me" I need to go live by myself for awhile and find myself again" My whole world came crashing down so just from pure survival I only focused on MY PAIN and totally forgot about the PAIN my son must have been feeling too. I lost my husband and partner my friend and lover. My son LOST his DADDY his security, his comfort, and his BEST FRIEND. I lost my home, so did my son, I lost my car, so did my son, I lost some of my friends, well so did my son when we had to move and he had to change schools too. Everything I was feeling he was feeling too only he doesn't have the life experience to know how to handle his loss or what to do with his feelings.
Guess what THAT'S OUR JOB TO TEACH THEM BY SETTING THE EXAMPLE. If you got a phone call from your childs school saying that your child was being mean and calling another child mean nasty names and being verbally abusive would you just do nothing? No, if your like me you would not let this behavior go un noticed right? So why should we be allowed to do the same thing to our kids about the other parent?
I know the pain we all going through sometimes it's almost impossible to hide our feelings of hurt, and anger, and sadness. I am putting a challenge out there to all of the now single mom's and dad's DO BETTER. Even if your holding your hand over your mouth not to say anything bad about your ex, DO BETTER watch your body language and tone of voice when your child is talking about your ex. They feel it, they know it, and most IMPORTANT PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR. They need to know it's OK FOR THEM TO LOVE BOTH OF YOU AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO CHOSE BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU.
What if we had to chose which child to LOVE could we do it???????????
My state requires both parents to attend a parenting class ( not together) but YOU HAVE TO GO or big trouble. So when I went to the class there was a whole group of us huffing and puffing and PISSED OFF that we even had to be there. The way I felt was I have raised three totally AWESOME KIDS SMART, CARING, LOVING, FUNNY, HAPPY CHILDREN. Plus i'm a teacher I deal with children everyday and have since my oldest was born 25 years ago. My thought since being THROWN into single parenthood was FINANCIAL. I don't like to miss work I don't like my check to be smaller than it should be. I have to count every penny now so missing four and a half hours of work did not sit well with me at all.
About 15 minutes after the class started I knew that this four and a half hours even though it was costing me financially would have cost MY SON ALOT MORE EMOTIONALLY, SPIRTUALLY, AND PHYSICALLY DOWN THE ROAD.
Now I know like me there are alot of you out there that say " Hey i'm doing everything right" or " I never say anything bad about my ex in front of the children" or my favorite " It doesn't matter what I say he or she knows we love them and none of this was there fault" Right WE HAVE ALL SAID IT. What I learned though is that it doesn't have to be anything you say it is also your body language, your attitude even the tone of your voice. Here's a good example just from my experience my son comes back from a visit and IMMEDIATLY I start in with what did you do? Where did you go? Who was dad with? These are all valid questions right I mean what kind of Mom would I be if I wasn't interested in my son's weekend. So all excited he says Dad took me golfing and to the movies we had alot of fun.
My response " Oh that's nice i'm happy for you honey" except when I said it I was rolling my eyes and talking through my teeth. Why because I was pissed off that I can't take him to have any fun because every cent I make goes for rent, food, electricity ect....
My first mistake was NEVER drill your child about there visit because children are very PROTECTIVE and he or she may feel the need to have to LIE because they don't want to upset their parent. In my son's case he actually told me that he didn't want to tell me anymore what he did at his dad's because it always made me cry that I couldn't afford to do these things wiht him. He is 10 so he is understands why i'm sad for not being able to have more fun with him but, he doesn't understand why i'm upset because dad can. To him mom and dad are the same so why does it matter which one takes him to have fun.
Also children know that they are 50% of mom and 50% of dad so if one parent is saying things like " Oh God your dad is such an ass" or " Why does your mom have to be such a bitch" all the child is thinking is "Well if i'm half of my dad then what does she think about me"?
None of us would ever intentionally EVER want to cause our kids more pain. Let's face it during a Divorce especially if your like me I was married for 23 years and my ex just came home from work one day said " Smells good what's for dinner mama"? Then after dinner told me" I need to go live by myself for awhile and find myself again" My whole world came crashing down so just from pure survival I only focused on MY PAIN and totally forgot about the PAIN my son must have been feeling too. I lost my husband and partner my friend and lover. My son LOST his DADDY his security, his comfort, and his BEST FRIEND. I lost my home, so did my son, I lost my car, so did my son, I lost some of my friends, well so did my son when we had to move and he had to change schools too. Everything I was feeling he was feeling too only he doesn't have the life experience to know how to handle his loss or what to do with his feelings.
Guess what THAT'S OUR JOB TO TEACH THEM BY SETTING THE EXAMPLE. If you got a phone call from your childs school saying that your child was being mean and calling another child mean nasty names and being verbally abusive would you just do nothing? No, if your like me you would not let this behavior go un noticed right? So why should we be allowed to do the same thing to our kids about the other parent?
I know the pain we all going through sometimes it's almost impossible to hide our feelings of hurt, and anger, and sadness. I am putting a challenge out there to all of the now single mom's and dad's DO BETTER. Even if your holding your hand over your mouth not to say anything bad about your ex, DO BETTER watch your body language and tone of voice when your child is talking about your ex. They feel it, they know it, and most IMPORTANT PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR. They need to know it's OK FOR THEM TO LOVE BOTH OF YOU AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO CHOSE BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU.
What if we had to chose which child to LOVE could we do it???????????
-
-
I had gone to the grocery store. When I wheeled my cartback to my car I just stool there a minute. A few spacesaway a Tesla Cyber truck was parked. I had seen it on theroad a few times for a few seconds. But not close up.It looked like it belonged to 2126 and not 2026. I wasgoing to take a picture of the car but the owners cameback and drove away. It was an ordinary middle age...
I am curious as to what everyone thinks about what my lawyer advised me to do when the ex and his wife put up blogs deliberately within earshot of my kids and/or sent emails to the kids with either insult, or accusations, or psychological evaluations, etc on me.
My lawyer said that the best offense and defense is to just let the kids know what's going on. You can do that by just giving facts without opinion. There were many times when the kids were the first to see the mommy bashing and I hadn't until I was told by someone else. My lawyer said to just lay down the facts without psychoanalyzing or giving opinions or name calling or insults back to the parent.
I believe that one of the worst things parents can do is say stuff like, "Oh your dad/mom is just lost and confused and he/she will never know how bad he/she is. He/She just can't understand what he/she is like." In my case the ex said something like, "The light of a million suns will never allow your mother to see who she is or what she is like." That is the most manipulative thing I've witnessed the ex do to my children.
What that does is put him in the spotlight of being compassionate and caring to the parent when in reality, the message is that the father/mother is a hopeless basket case of futility and will never be a good and decent person because he/she is too blind and incapable. It puts the parent they are targeting in the position of being a naive child. It literally rapes the child of feeling safe with that parent. And it rapes the parent of being a parent.
Any takes on any of this?
Thanks for sharing. I recall the class and it happened at the time when the divorce was just starting. I cried during and after the class I recall - much mroe about the loss of what the kids were experiencing at that time and the guilt. Just that the "ideal" parenting situation (or what we think is the ideal situation) was no longer available. I've tried for the most part to keep the high road. (and for any of my family to ensure they too did around the kids who were just a soph and junior in hs at the time). The reminders are important because its often a lonely journey for the parent-- and for the kid too.
Simolin - the parenting part broke my heart most.
For my children - their father sent child support and a call about every month or so. He selected to move away. Over time, I've seen her heart break as he didn't come to graduation, help her move into college, etc. My temptation (overlooked) is to commiserate with her -- but I listen, acknowledge her feelings of hurt and offer no judgment on him -- as that's her doorway.
How wonderful of you to share. My kids visited him the first summer - he moved to another state. He was in an angry agitated state and did lot of mom bashing. It didn't come from them and I didn't ask (shared through an aunt who just provided context of their visit)... and we've left it there. The manipulation of all sorts is so hurtful for the kids --
I've been wondering --- is it manipulative --- to have moved far away and distanced literally physically and emotionally from the kids -- manipulative to them darn it.
My ex (even in the marriage) used manipulation and statements at times when I'd (naturally as parent do) get after the kids to pick up, finish homework -- and as we do at times (when they tune us out) raise my voice. He'd insinuate I was a bad parent or unbalanced.... By the time of the divorce... whew-- that manipulation (that mostly you ignored - you loved the person or thought you did) was in full force fueled by narcissistic rigtheousness. IMO my ex sought to withdraw most if not all parenting without regard to the kids needs - but to prove a point -- see how hard it is... see what happens if you don't see things my way.... thought this was a good idea didn't you....
My therapist helped me see that what was there -- was more about him and his needs -- not the kids and definitely not mine (during the last several years of the marriage).
Your children will respect you and love you for being you. Being the best person and parent in the moment. Being stable and nonmanipulative in your love and care. It's amazing that kids over time willl being to sort things out
Cat... my stbx sounds very much like yours. One of the biggest problems in our marriage was that we were never on the same page as far as parenting our son. He seemed so desparate for our son to love him that he let him do whatever he wanted, gave him whatever he wanted - there was no discipline or responsibility. He undermined me at every opportunity, I was always wrong...no matter the situation. And told me so frequently in front of my son. He kept things from me (kid gets in trouble at school and wouldn't tell me) it's very embarrassing for the teacher to say "well didn't your husband tell you this?" So.. now at almost 18 yrs old, he's dropped out of school and probably has a substance abuse problem. So, when I say it's his choice not to come around - you see it's because I have rules and expectations and dad doesn't... what kid wouldn't choose that?
Funny thing... my stbx grew up with Ozzie and Harriet - I came from the "broken" family... and I'm the one who doesn't know how to be a parent???? I sure as hell learned what NOT to do.
I do take comfort in knowing though, that my son does understand my values so I guess something did sink in. He's made the comment to me "I wish dad would say no once in a while". The boy is ASKING for guidance and responsibility and his dad just wants to be his pal.
So, I'm actually kind of looking forward to the class - I'm sure I will learn a lot I don't know. I'm especially anxious for the stbx to take it - maybe an outsider will get through to him where I could not.
Thank you for this discussion.........
What so-and-so says about ME says more about THEM than it does about ME.
That makes it easier to just let go.
This is a very good post.
Yorkieluvr shared that the EXAMPLE her parents showed her during their Divorce stayed with her and she followed that EXAMPLE during her own Divorce. Thanks for sharing that because it just goes to show the whole " Do as I say and Not what I do " attitude doesn't really work. If we want our kids to grow up strong, independent, loving, respectful, people than we have to show them.
Divorce doesn't really come with a manuel for us all to follow and it's different for everyone of us. Each of us will go through the process in our own way from the lessons and experiences we learned as kids or adults.
I didn't come from a broken home my parents LOVED and RESPECTED each other ALWAYS. My Mother passed away from Cancer in 1976 when I was 11. My father raised 3 girls and 1 boy mostly by himself until he met my step mom years later. I look to the strength of my father now how full of PAIN AND ANGER he must have felt when the love of his life was taken from him so young. But, not for one second did I ever feel SCARED OR UNLOVED. My father set the bar high for me to make sure that my son never feels scared or unloved.