COPD & Emphysema Support Group
COPD is a progressive disease characterized by airflow obstruction or limitation. Emphysema is characterized by loss of elasticity of the lung tissue, destruction of structures supporting the alveoli and of capillaries feeding the alveoli. Both have symptoms that include shortness of breath, among other respiratory troubles. If you are a COPD or Emphysema sufferer, join...
SoftFlower
Summer vacations are upon us and some of you have expressed concerns about going to higher altitudes, either by flying, or by driving up to the mountains. You may remember that as you ascend in altitude the available amount of oxygen in the air decreases. That means that your arterial blood oxygen, and your oxygen saturation, also decreases. Pulmonary patients, who already have low blood oxygen at sea level, may have a problem at altitudes as low as 3,000 ft. (Remember that planes are pressurized at about 5,000 to 8,000 ft and occasionally even higher!)
Before we get started with a discussion of oxygen needs, it is important to point out that many people with lung disease, even fairly severe disease, have been evaluated and found to have no significant problem with oxygen levels in their blood. If this is true for you, great! If not, read on.
High Altitude Simulation Test (HAST)
How can the doctor tell if you need to increase the liter flow of your oxygen, or if you need to be put on supplemental oxygen when you fly across the country, or drive up to the mountains? Needs vary with the individual and can be hard to estimate in the individual with lung disease.
Your doctor may refer to a nomogram, which provides an educated guess about your oxygen needs. He may order a HAST (High Altitude Simulation Test) which provides accurate information and is easily done in a pulmonary function lab. Another option is to perform a walking test to see if you desaturate, and how much, with walking. This can help him to estimate your oxygen needs at various altitudes.
Oximeters - Oximetry
Many patients, who have gone through pulmonary rehab programs and gotten sophisticated about their oxygen saturations, purchase their own oximeter. This usually requires obtaining a doctor's prescription and license number before your purchase from a medical supply company. On rare occasions, an insurance company will reimburse the purchase cost if you get a prescription. It is worth checking on.
If you wish to purchase an oximeter there are several small ones on the market. We've had the most experience with the little Nonin 9500 Onyx finger probe oximeter, which can be purchased for about $350.00, plus tax. But, we know other patients who have been price gouged for as much as $700.00! Shop around.
There are several places where you can now buy a small Nonin Onyx oximeter without a doctor's prescription. The Nonin 9500 is a little bigger than the size of a thimble and provides your heart rate in addition to your oxygen saturation. It comes with a long cord and can be carried around your neck like a pendant.
At the REI sports supply store they have been renamed "SportStat, and are marketed for detecting altitude sickness, also caused by low oxygen levels at altitude. Check the local store or order one at 643-382-0013 for $395.00 plus tax and shipping.
Richmark Medical Supplies sells the Nonin Onyx for $340.00 plus shipping if you live in IL, WI or IN. If you live in another state it is $359.00 plus shipping. Call 1-800-882-889 and ask for Tom.
Aeromedix sells their Nonin FlightStat (what the Onyx is called when sold without a prescription) for $367.35 including shipping. Look up their website at http://www.aeromedix.com or make a toll free phone call to 1-888-362-7123 for further information.
Oximeters are great for patients who have gone through rehab and are very knowledgeable about oxygen, oxygen saturations and oximeters. Their physicians are often comfortable with having them titrate their oxygen according to their saturations. If, however, you haven't gone through rehab, or your program hasn't relied on oximetry, there are some concerns about using this technology without a thorough understanding of its limits. You should definitely get your physician's advice on this. Remember, oxygen is a drug, and the dose (the liter flow) should be prescribed by your doctor and changed only with your physician's advice and permission.
Breathing Techniques
We are going to provide a little crash course on oximeters, dedicated to Iris Patton of Neff, Ohio who asked us to tell her know more about them.
The first thing you need to remember is that the oxygen saturation provided by an oximeter does NOT have the accuracy of an arterial blood gas (ABG, a test done on blood usually taken from an artery in your wrist). However, oximeter readings are a lot less difficult (and less painful!) to obtain, are great for providing trends, and are certainly a lot less expensive.
Several things can affect the accuracy of the reading that you get with a finger oximeter including some nail polishes, (especially blue, green, black or metallic ones), poor circulation, and having had a cigarette in the past few hours. If you smoke, don't waste your time and money buying an oximeter! The oximeter can't tell the difference between the oxygen (O2) in your blood, and the carbon monoxide (CO), thus giving you a falsely high indication of the adequacy of the amount of oxygen circulating in your blood if you have been smoking!
Your oximeter will give you a heart rate as well as an oxygen saturation. Don't get the two confused.
A normal saturation, at sea level, is about 98%. Many patients with COPD will have an oximetry reading in the mid or low 90's, but that is fine. People without pulmonary disease also have low oximeter readings when they go to altitude. In Denver (5,000 ft. altitude) a normal saturation is about 90%.
You should have an oximetry reading above 88% but don't worry if it jumps around and briefly drops below that. It can be due to your activity or circulation, a bent finger or arm, cold hands, or even due to holding your breath rather than exhaling with effort. Consistently having levels drop below 88% is of concern and should be reported to your physician.
Most physicians prefer that you maintain an oximetry reading of at least 90%, keeping it between 90-94%. The preferred level depends on your individual condition and the type of pulmonary problem that you have. This is where you turn to your pulmonary physician for advice specific to you. Remember, each of you is an individual with different needs.
If you are observant, you will find that pacing yourself helps keep your oxygen level up.
You'll probably find that your oximetry readings will be high, even "normal", when you are sitting, and that they will drop with activity. If you are really smart, you will find that your breathing pattern can make a significant difference in your oximetry levels.
Those of you with restrictive disease will find that your oxygen saturations may plummet with activity if you don't carefully pace yourself and practice good breathing techniques.
If you have COPD, when you breathe slowly, breathe out longer than you breathe in, and use pursed lip breathing (PLB) it can sometimes make the difference between a normal and an abnormal oximetry reading. If you have a form of restrictive disease, you may need to try different breathing techniques to see what works best for you. Slowing your breathing helps, and using PLB usually helps.
If you are doing good pursed lip breathing you should be able to increase your oxygen saturation numbers while you are doing the PLB. The lower your saturation, the easier it is to "blow those numbers up". The closer your saturation is to normal, the better your technique needs to be in order to increase your saturation numbers. There are lots of patients with low oxygen saturations who are able to increase their saturations all the way up to 93% with good PLB technique. We've seen some super stars get all the way up to 98%, much higher than the saturations they have on 2 lpm of oxygen!
WARNING! If you work too hard at your breathing techniques, you will see that you actually lower your saturations! So, relax and don't be an over achiever!
Why would you want to do use PLB to increase your oxygen levels when you have oxygen prescribed for this very reason? For peace of mind! If you have confidence in your ability to keep your oxygen saturations at a safe level with your own breathing techniques you never have to panic if you temporarily run out of oxygen! Also, proper breathing techniques, including a slower breathing pattern, enable you to better utilize your prescribed oxygen and you may find you need a lower liter flow. Investing in an oximeter, if only to practice breathing techniques, may be of value for those of you who have compromised oxygen levels with activity or at altitude.
PERF, The Pulmonary Education and Research Foundation, is a small but vigorous non-profit foundation. We are dedicated to providing help, and general information for those with chronic respiratory disease through education, research, and information. This publication is one of the ways we do that. The Second Wind is not intended to be used for, or relied upon, as specific advice in any given case. Prior to initiating or changing any course of treatment based on the information you find here, it is essential that you consult with your physician. We hope you find this newsletter of interest and of help
I hope this helps someone here....Holly
Before we get started with a discussion of oxygen needs, it is important to point out that many people with lung disease, even fairly severe disease, have been evaluated and found to have no significant problem with oxygen levels in their blood. If this is true for you, great! If not, read on.
High Altitude Simulation Test (HAST)
How can the doctor tell if you need to increase the liter flow of your oxygen, or if you need to be put on supplemental oxygen when you fly across the country, or drive up to the mountains? Needs vary with the individual and can be hard to estimate in the individual with lung disease.
Your doctor may refer to a nomogram, which provides an educated guess about your oxygen needs. He may order a HAST (High Altitude Simulation Test) which provides accurate information and is easily done in a pulmonary function lab. Another option is to perform a walking test to see if you desaturate, and how much, with walking. This can help him to estimate your oxygen needs at various altitudes.
Oximeters - Oximetry
Many patients, who have gone through pulmonary rehab programs and gotten sophisticated about their oxygen saturations, purchase their own oximeter. This usually requires obtaining a doctor's prescription and license number before your purchase from a medical supply company. On rare occasions, an insurance company will reimburse the purchase cost if you get a prescription. It is worth checking on.
If you wish to purchase an oximeter there are several small ones on the market. We've had the most experience with the little Nonin 9500 Onyx finger probe oximeter, which can be purchased for about $350.00, plus tax. But, we know other patients who have been price gouged for as much as $700.00! Shop around.
There are several places where you can now buy a small Nonin Onyx oximeter without a doctor's prescription. The Nonin 9500 is a little bigger than the size of a thimble and provides your heart rate in addition to your oxygen saturation. It comes with a long cord and can be carried around your neck like a pendant.
At the REI sports supply store they have been renamed "SportStat, and are marketed for detecting altitude sickness, also caused by low oxygen levels at altitude. Check the local store or order one at 643-382-0013 for $395.00 plus tax and shipping.
Richmark Medical Supplies sells the Nonin Onyx for $340.00 plus shipping if you live in IL, WI or IN. If you live in another state it is $359.00 plus shipping. Call 1-800-882-889 and ask for Tom.
Aeromedix sells their Nonin FlightStat (what the Onyx is called when sold without a prescription) for $367.35 including shipping. Look up their website at http://www.aeromedix.com or make a toll free phone call to 1-888-362-7123 for further information.
Oximeters are great for patients who have gone through rehab and are very knowledgeable about oxygen, oxygen saturations and oximeters. Their physicians are often comfortable with having them titrate their oxygen according to their saturations. If, however, you haven't gone through rehab, or your program hasn't relied on oximetry, there are some concerns about using this technology without a thorough understanding of its limits. You should definitely get your physician's advice on this. Remember, oxygen is a drug, and the dose (the liter flow) should be prescribed by your doctor and changed only with your physician's advice and permission.
Breathing Techniques
We are going to provide a little crash course on oximeters, dedicated to Iris Patton of Neff, Ohio who asked us to tell her know more about them.
The first thing you need to remember is that the oxygen saturation provided by an oximeter does NOT have the accuracy of an arterial blood gas (ABG, a test done on blood usually taken from an artery in your wrist). However, oximeter readings are a lot less difficult (and less painful!) to obtain, are great for providing trends, and are certainly a lot less expensive.
Several things can affect the accuracy of the reading that you get with a finger oximeter including some nail polishes, (especially blue, green, black or metallic ones), poor circulation, and having had a cigarette in the past few hours. If you smoke, don't waste your time and money buying an oximeter! The oximeter can't tell the difference between the oxygen (O2) in your blood, and the carbon monoxide (CO), thus giving you a falsely high indication of the adequacy of the amount of oxygen circulating in your blood if you have been smoking!
Your oximeter will give you a heart rate as well as an oxygen saturation. Don't get the two confused.
A normal saturation, at sea level, is about 98%. Many patients with COPD will have an oximetry reading in the mid or low 90's, but that is fine. People without pulmonary disease also have low oximeter readings when they go to altitude. In Denver (5,000 ft. altitude) a normal saturation is about 90%.
You should have an oximetry reading above 88% but don't worry if it jumps around and briefly drops below that. It can be due to your activity or circulation, a bent finger or arm, cold hands, or even due to holding your breath rather than exhaling with effort. Consistently having levels drop below 88% is of concern and should be reported to your physician.
Most physicians prefer that you maintain an oximetry reading of at least 90%, keeping it between 90-94%. The preferred level depends on your individual condition and the type of pulmonary problem that you have. This is where you turn to your pulmonary physician for advice specific to you. Remember, each of you is an individual with different needs.
If you are observant, you will find that pacing yourself helps keep your oxygen level up.
You'll probably find that your oximetry readings will be high, even "normal", when you are sitting, and that they will drop with activity. If you are really smart, you will find that your breathing pattern can make a significant difference in your oximetry levels.
Those of you with restrictive disease will find that your oxygen saturations may plummet with activity if you don't carefully pace yourself and practice good breathing techniques.
If you have COPD, when you breathe slowly, breathe out longer than you breathe in, and use pursed lip breathing (PLB) it can sometimes make the difference between a normal and an abnormal oximetry reading. If you have a form of restrictive disease, you may need to try different breathing techniques to see what works best for you. Slowing your breathing helps, and using PLB usually helps.
If you are doing good pursed lip breathing you should be able to increase your oxygen saturation numbers while you are doing the PLB. The lower your saturation, the easier it is to "blow those numbers up". The closer your saturation is to normal, the better your technique needs to be in order to increase your saturation numbers. There are lots of patients with low oxygen saturations who are able to increase their saturations all the way up to 93% with good PLB technique. We've seen some super stars get all the way up to 98%, much higher than the saturations they have on 2 lpm of oxygen!
WARNING! If you work too hard at your breathing techniques, you will see that you actually lower your saturations! So, relax and don't be an over achiever!
Why would you want to do use PLB to increase your oxygen levels when you have oxygen prescribed for this very reason? For peace of mind! If you have confidence in your ability to keep your oxygen saturations at a safe level with your own breathing techniques you never have to panic if you temporarily run out of oxygen! Also, proper breathing techniques, including a slower breathing pattern, enable you to better utilize your prescribed oxygen and you may find you need a lower liter flow. Investing in an oximeter, if only to practice breathing techniques, may be of value for those of you who have compromised oxygen levels with activity or at altitude.
PERF, The Pulmonary Education and Research Foundation, is a small but vigorous non-profit foundation. We are dedicated to providing help, and general information for those with chronic respiratory disease through education, research, and information. This publication is one of the ways we do that. The Second Wind is not intended to be used for, or relied upon, as specific advice in any given case. Prior to initiating or changing any course of treatment based on the information you find here, it is essential that you consult with your physician. We hope you find this newsletter of interest and of help
I hope this helps someone here....Holly
A few years before I was diagnosed, I noticed that on plane trips- (especially long ones) I would have more episodes of angina and at times feel so bad that I almost notified the stewardess. Thouhgt it was all related to the heart issue I was having. I also had problems after a day or two visiting family that lived atop a mountain ( I'm sea level)
When I was diagnosed, my Dr. wanted me to start using O2 when flying or at high altitude ( even though I'm not on 24/7 O2 at home- just at night)
What a difference.
No more chest pain, no more distress/ feeling of doom. He has me on 4 liters with flying though the most I use at night is 2 liters. But it has helped so much that I can travel more comfortably.
Get checked folks, it can open up the world a bit for you!
Hugs, Lisa
Hugs, Sue
I live at 2500 feet and often work at various sites from 5000 to 9000 feet. Good view up there, but not so good for breathing. I can do the 5K ft if I am not exerting myself, but no higher without oxygen...
Thanks,
Dennis
http://www.turnermedical.com/Nonin_Onyx_9500_Pulse_Oximeter.htm
Here is what I had in my head? Smoking increase my oxygen saturation by relaxing me. OK; I am an idiot. I did not know. I have paid careful attention to my oximeter since purchasing it. My Pulmonary Doctor and my Cardiologist INSISTED that I buy one.
My heart is in tachycardia frequently. I have to keep my heart rate
down. I have to keep my oxygen saturation up. OK, I understood the numbers and was doing as both specialists told me to do: Stop exerting when my heart rate reaches a certain number. Use oxygen and pursed lip breathing when my oxygen saturation goes
too low. Fine. One day, I had my oximeter on when I was smoking.
I noticed that my heart rate went down, instead of up------any my
oxygen saturation went up instead of down. This is exactly the
opposite of what SHOULD be happening. Smoking should make my
saturation drop and my pulse go up. It did not. I watched this for weeks. I finally came to the conclusion that smoking relaxed me and lowered my heart rate and increased my oxygen.
Elevation and/or altitude? I get into some bad trouble when I travel
to my sister's house to visit. She lives at 4500-4800 feet. I live at
around 2000 ft. When I go to visit the Oregon Coast, I feel like I can walk forever and can breathe so much easier, that is astounds me.
Being at a lower elevation, with better air quality is the reason I can
breathe so well on the Oregon coast. My Pulmonary Doctor insists
that I am wrong. His belief is that IF I actually moved to the Oregon
Coast to live, that my Emphysema would worsen. He believes that damp, moldy living conditions would be my downfall. I am not sure
what to do? I have always longed to live on the Oregon Coast.
Will the damp cool humidity and mold make me worse; or will the
better air quality and lower elevation help me? I do not have the
answer. Thank you so much, Holly, for sharing.
Using your pulse ox after smoking will give you a higher (false) reading, due to the carbon monoxide found in cigarettes. This is also true when every one is exposed to smoke from fires, etc. It does not increase the amount of oxygen you are actually receiving.
To get a more accurate reading you should try your pulse ox at least four hours after having a cigarette
Hopefully, this will explain it somewhat better.
Carbon monoxide Carbon monoxide concentrations in air, and therefore in human blood, are normally insignificant, but significant levels will follow smoke inhalation (fires, cigarettes, traffic exhaust). Hemoglobin affinity for carbon monoxide is twenty times that of hemoglobins affinity for oxygen so hemoglobin carries carbon monoxide (carboxy-hemoglobin) in preference to oxygen. Carboxyhemoglobin prevents oxygen binding to hemoglobin, yet being bright red, causes over reading of oxygen saturation (often 100%). Pulse oximetry should be avoided where significant amounts of carbon monoxide have been inhaled until levels have fallen. Significant carboxyhemoglobin levels usually occur in patients admitted from a fire. Cigarette smoking can cause over-readings up to four hours after smoking a cigarette.
Last cigarette at 1:04 am Eastern time-----my post #5 on this discussion. I am now 8 hours free of smoking.
I have trouble trusting doctors or other humans, at times.
I KNOW from life experience that I have what medical professionals label "paradoxical responses". Example: Morphine is given to reduce pain after surgery; only in me; it increases pain.
Knowing that I have many "paradoxical responses" (react the opposite of most people)-----played a role in me believing that
smoking may be helping me----not hurting me. I know it sounds crazy, but I can explain further. LOL Stimulants act as sedatives
in me. Sedatives act as stimulants. One cup of coffee will make
me tired and doze off. My mother only lived until I was 1 1/2 and
wrote of these reactions in my baby book. She noted I reacted
"opposite" to medications prescribed; and had many food allergies.
I was born this way. Yup. A new spin on the word oppositional.
LOL Of course, I can not discount the strength of denial in all of this; or I would not be scientific and objective. Denial plays a role
in continuing to smoke.
MY scientific findings? 1) Smoking makes my saturation GO UP as
shown on oximeter, and heart rate go down. 2) I have "paradoxical responses"; therefore a stimulant like nicotine will
relax me. 3) Denial that cigarettes cause death and worsen
Emphysema.
NEW SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS: 1) Disregard oximeter readings as being accurate while smoking. 2) Still possess "paradoxical responses" to some medications and substances. 3) No longer
in denial due to being objective. END OF SCIENCE EXPERIMENT
AND SCIENTIFIC STUDY: STOP SMOKING IMMEDIATELY.
The LOWEST O2 sat I could obtain was 90-91 % while fast walking the treadmill at 3.5 mph for 5 minute duration. My sitting on the beach at sea level is 96% saturation. With PLB I can get it to 98% O2 sat.
It looks promising I will pass the tests to fly with my own lungs and no O2 tanks.
thanks for the article.
dale(tinster)
http://www.clinicalguard.com/fingerpulseoximeter300cse-p-77.html
Here the oximeter I just bought. I like it a lot and it seems accurate.
The $35 postage fee to Puerto Rico was complete rip off- thieves.
The actual US Postal charge was $1.20 the rest was profiteering.
http://www.clinicalguard.com/finger-pulse-oximeter-octivetech-300c-p-37.html
dale(tinster)
They claim Puerto Rico is a Foreign
country that requires special handling
and special postage rates.
Yup it sure is much more difficult to write
00962 zip than 97842 zip.
Happens all the time.
How's $75 shipping for a $3.00 auto part smaller than my
thumbnail? $40 shipping for a SD photo card.
We really ARE part of America and PR is lot closer to Florida
thann New York or California are. Ticks me off.
They claim Puerto Rico is a Foreign
country that requires special handling
and special postage rates.
Yup it sure is much more difficult to write
00962 zip than 97842 zip.
Happens all the time.
How's $75 shipping for a $3.00 auto part smaller than my
thumbnail? $40 shipping for a SD photo card.
We really ARE part of America and PR is lot closer to Florida
thann New York or California are. Ticks me off.
They claim Puerto Rico is a Foreign
country that requires special handling
and special postage rates.
Yup it sure is much more difficult to write
00962 zip than 97842 zip.
Happens all the time.
How's $75 shipping for a $3.00 auto part smaller than my
thumbnail? $40 shipping for a SD photo card.
We really ARE part of America and PR is lot closer to Florida
thann New York or California are. Ticks me off.