I agree completely and I have this same condition.

Now that I learned boundaries, then I can see others violating boundaries or having no boundaries and having walls so it is very frustrating to me.

And if I express my own feelings then often other people are perplexed by it.

I even have this one "friend" that brags about paying thousands to his Lawyer and he is anxous about going to Court soon for an assult case, and I say duh - stop assulting people and your stupid problems will go away.

Another friend of mine smokes cigarettes and he spends all his money then comes around crying about being poor and always trying to get some money from anyone, but if I give him some cash then first thing he does is buy a new pack of smokes.

And very many people in society seem like they can not even say "hello" without a near nervous breakdown. So I agree that many people can not function on a simple social level.

My boundaries are fairly strong too so that I quickly shut out a lot of people. The German-German Iron Curtain works for me too.

And my family can not even use the word "codependency" without contempt.

If we want to have many friends then we must act like fools and throw away our recovery.

IMO, when one reaches this point then it is time to start taking the lead in society, and with neighbors and family, because they are incompetant dysfunctional people and we can not allow them to be in charge anymore.

So what can one do Booky? Is there a middle-thing? Something between protecting your innerself and mingling with the masses?

It would seem that this situation is what they call a "Volkskrankheit" (volk = folk; krankheit = sickness). You have to remember that people in this country has the 2nd highest consumption of beer in the world, so I am not exaggerating when I say more than 1/3 of the inhabitants has an alcohol problem (You can legally drink at age 16!). That would by default make the other third co-dependent.

I am still looking for the other third which is neither, and I haven't found them yet, at least not where I live.

That is very funny, and I am happy to see you have a sense of humor, and yes I know you are being very serious and you mean what you say, but that cold hard honesty is what makes it so funny.

I had not realized you were in Germany, as I was thinking the "DEU" some how stood for "Denmark" or some word in English, instead of the German name for Germany being Deutschland. The Internet reaching around the world is super cool.

So I too was serious in my previous post here last sentence, that we need to take the leadership role in our communities and put the codependency recovery methods to better use.

This is why I wrote a book about codependency to be published soon, and I have started to campaign for election to some political position here in my Maryland USA, and when some thing happens in my extended family then I try to take charge and keep stuff civil, because otherwise they will make a mess of things.

I see it like the USA had Bush as President and he made a mess of everything, but now we have a sensible person in President Obama, and so we need healthy people to take the lead and keep the idiots out.

That is our task, IMO.

And the majority of people will follow a healthy leader, so as we get more healthy then we need to move ourselves up in rank.

I think that if you don't feel like talking to someone, then don't. Sometimes, I just feel like texting or IMing. Just do what you feel like doing. When you are more relaxed and have energy then get out and go play.

Well you have just described the essance of codependency. The feeling, that when you are with people, you have to give of yourself, even when you don't want to, and then resent them when you do....ah, yes, I know it well...classic.

I worked as a claims adjuster and I handled each and every claim as if it were the most important thing...I killed myself doing it...I handled claims at the speed of light, just to lighten the clients burden, no matter what it did to me. At work, people came to me all day, every day with their problems...those type find us because we do listen and support them, even if they tell you the same shit over and over again. We begin to get annoyed and drained but still do the same thing, day in and day out. I felt so resentful and drained, I disconnected my phone at home. I would run home, lock the door behind me and not answer the door if someone knocked. I made myself a prisoner.

When I learned about codependency, I too erected huge walls, not knowing what a personal boundry was. I kept working on it and took baby steps and forgave myself when I felt I wasn't getting it. The key for me was to treat myself as gently and caring and kind, I had treated other people. So, as an example, I posted on my office door "Employee At Work, Do Not Disturb" trying a little levity but making my point. When people would come and tell me their sob stories, I reminded myself that I am not God. How arrogant we are to think we have the power to "fix" everyone, as if we could.
I would look at them, nod and say simply, say "God that sounds terrible" (validate). I hope it all works out for you. Good luck". and then I would turn around to my computer and finish working. We are our own worst enemies...when people tell us their problems and don't ask for help but we give it anyway, that is our responsibiltiy. Another little tool I use is wait to be asked instead of just jumping in...that would eliminate 95%. And if people ask for help from you and you feel like helping, then help. If not, I just say "I'm sorry, I wish I were in a position to help, but I'm going thru something myself"...or whatever.
We've taught people how to treat us. Now you've got to teach them how to treat the new, recovering you. Little by little when you change, people change the way they react to you....
When I go to bed at night I thank God for helping me take care of myself today. I'm in AA and the premise of "service" pissed me off for along time, because of the obvious. Plus, no offense men, AA was started by 2 guys and that is what they did to not be self centered. I am at a point now where I provide some service to the group, by making coffee, etc., but I have to keep myself in check....I do what is comfortable for ME!
Anyway, hope this helps....(Hi Bookie...I come to this site (cody) because I know I will "see" you...take care, bitemepa)

Weiss...you sound just like I did before I was diagnosed with situational depression. I started taking meds & started feeling a lot better. Have you spoken with your doctor about this?

~C

In your response to all of your kind input, I would like to add a couple of things. I have a number of Internet "friends" because writing goes much easier on my nerves than vis-a-vis verbal communication, since written ords emit less intended emotional weight than talk. So chatting is just fine, and works great as a physical boundary. If someone violates my boundary, the pain switch is that little red x in the upper right-hand corner. I have closer I-Net relations than personal ones, which suites me fine, but my therapist has used the word "reality-escaping" more than once, although I think I-Net friendships are nice, because people cannot "walk all over you". I spend a lot of time by myself, and I like this, but my therapist thinks I need to "work on this".

And I went through the phase of wanting to be a girl scout all the time, and have cast that aside. I learned I cannot not really help people all that much; that I don't always have the genial ideas or the best solutions to problem; that I don't have to get involved in other people's love relationships and take sides and try to help them get back together again. I've been through all that.

Now I have reached a phase that I just don't care about them at all. It seems like it's gone from one extreme to the other. I feel sceptical and cynical all the time. I tell myself the only reason people even want to be my friend, is because they want me to do stuff for them, and I don't want to do anything for anyone anymore.
People tell me about how family members got arrested, or their house burned up, or they were in a traffic accident, or their husband ditched them, or they got fired, and all I can say is "uh-huh".

At the end of all this drama, they ask me, "And what's new with you?" And I say "Oh, not much." I don't tell them that I am not getting along with my husband. I don't tell them I am afraid of losing my job. I don't tell them that last week I was contemplating suicide - and waiting for that awful feeling to just go away. It's none of their business. It's not about them; it's about me, and they can't (and wouldn't if they could) help me anyway.

I suffer from dysmethia. It's a form of depression similar to bipolar, except bipolar people get enthusiastic for a while, before falling in depression hole. People with dymethia go from normal to blas to depressed.

Medication is not considered a solution for anyone who is not in a clinic for treatment, because things like Prozac are banned in this country as being potential addiction substances. The medical community believes regular medication for depression is addiction by perscription, so medication is only administered in extreme cases (people who have actually attempted suicided and are temporary committed).

I treat my depression not with pills, but by reducing sugar and carbohydrates in my diet, excercising twice a week, going outside as much as I can, distracting myself with monotonous tasks like cleaning, filing or sorting, and seeing a therapist, who wants me to work on social skills, which just don't interest me at the moment. Maybe this phase will pass, but I just don't know how to get out of this "I don't care hole".

Hi there. Do you think your situation maybe that you are changing and need to find new like minded friends. Throughout my life I can see when I have moved on and when people have out grown me.
I happily leave a social occasions when people talk about the world around them and feel miserable when I come away when a conversation is all about one persons misery etc. Coda meetings are different because people talk about themselves with a high degree of honesty, however, I still must say being involved with people who are engaged in the world around them is the place where I feel most happy.

Hi to you too!

The thought did occur to me that I have "awoken" to find that most of my friendships consisted of me having the feeling that I was responsible for the emotional well-being for most of my friends, and now I have outgrown that phase.

However my therapists points out that what I am doing is reactionary - a form of denial and passive aggression. He says that now I am aware of what co-dependency is, that I rebel against friendship because I view all friendship as a form co-dependency, and if I keep it up there is a higher potential for becoming schizoid - one of those psychotics who can only monopolise and manipulate people for short periods of time, uncompromising any only on their terms.

I thought I had outgrown these friendships, too, but my therapist said their is more to it than that. He said it might be that I have become disinterested because I am still looking for victims to save, and I just realised these friends don't need, so that I might be looking around for new friends who do "need" me.

He wants me to practice treating friends like kindergarden playmates now. He said, "Remember when you were in kindergarden, and you played 'teatime'? Try that for awhile. Make efforts to make small talk polite conversation, without wondering how the things you say or they say make you feel. Save that for later. Save that for yourself. At first just make it like a game with rules. And make one of the rules: you only want polite conversation, and you don't talk about their drama. Try it for couple times."

I don't really want to, because it seems as phoney as walk-on role in a daytime soap opera.