Codependency Support Group
Codependency is defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for another person's struggles. A codependent person may try to change, or feel shame about their most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with the other person's struggles. If you are on a journey towards self-love, this support group is for you. Join us and find others...
Hi! I just joined this group, because I live in a relative de-populated area where support groups are too far away.
I am by default co-dependent, because I the wife of an alcoholic husband. We both work at "managing" our linked dependencies.
Some time ago, my husband was in a clinic for about 6 weeks, after a total abstinence period for about six months. He decided for himself that he wanted to undertake a therapy for his alcohol abuse. Close to the end of this therapy they had a weekend session, where the spouses, life partners and significant others were invited to an open discussion - sort of like an AA meeting.
I should add the clinic was a program sponsered by the German Lufthansa and the Good Templers Association. The directress was not a clinical psychologist, but a trained AA therapist.
Towards the end of the open sesssion, where everyone could express their views, she called me in for a "private discussion", which went something like this:
"You have a very aggressive stance towards alcoholics", she began.
"Let's just say I have a lot of repressed anger for being treated like I am part of the problem. But I don't think I was being aggressive towards anyone here", I replied.
"Well, to be honest, your lack of empathy for the poor victims of alcohol shocks me", she reprimanded.
"What you mean about that one guy, who was whining that if his third wife had never have left him, he wouldn't have gone back to drinking, so it was all her fault? And the fact that I told him that first step in being successful in managing his problem was to accept responsibility that he is responsible for opening a bottle, and he can't blame anyone else? Or the fact that I think that is YOUR job, and YOU don't like it when I do it?" I asked with a touch of sarcasm, but never really loud.
"Alcoholism is a disease, you understand", she started.
"Yes", I interrupted, "But unlike cancer, polio or MS, it is not a virus seeking a hapless victim; alcoholics foster their disease actively, knowingly, and consciously. They make a choice to continue to be sick or not."
"Well, if that's your viewpoint...." she sighed, before saying, "As long as you have that attitude, you will continue to be part of the problem, and not part of the solution."
"Pardon me?! Part of the problem? Look, Mrs. Sch------, I just spent the better part of the year learning that it is not my fault my husband is an alcoholic. I had to teach myself that I no longer accept the responsibility for his behaviour. That I will resist being his shepard, his guardian angle, his mummy, and the person who irons out the wrinkles in his life when 'shit happens'. I will resist making his decisions, telling him what he should or should not do, and becoming angry when he disappoints me and most of all controlling his behaviour. Where do you get off telling me I am part of the problem?"
"Well, you have to understand that alcoholism is a disease, and if he is going to be successful in combatting this disease, you will have to support him. For instance, I think it would be better if you promised me, you won't drink alcohol anymore. You both should just say no to alcohol", she said.
(Counted to five here so that I would not become angry.)
"No", I said. "I am not going to change myself, my life, my personality, my dislikes, or sacrifice my wants or needs for his sake. That is what co-dependency is all about. We give ourselves up for their sake, and they get to do what they want."
"Yes, but don't you get it? When you form a team and say 'we don't drink alcohol' that you are supporting him to resist his addiction?" she countered.
"I don't think you understand what you are really asking of me. I think you are asking me to continue being co-dependent, so that he ultimately makes it my responsiblity to say no to alcohol. I have to be the one who says, 'No, we don't drink.' I think you have this sort of myopism about alcohol. Look if he was bulimic or diabetic, would you be sitting here asking me to never eat a piece of cake again for the rest of my life? If he was addicted to shopping, who would buy groceries? And what if he was addicted to sex? Would you honestly think it would be good for me to remain celibate for the rest of my life, for his sake?"
"But, those addictions are different...."
I don't think so. And I hope I was right, when I told her that being abstinent just for his sake was just another form of co-dependency.
I am by default co-dependent, because I the wife of an alcoholic husband. We both work at "managing" our linked dependencies.
Some time ago, my husband was in a clinic for about 6 weeks, after a total abstinence period for about six months. He decided for himself that he wanted to undertake a therapy for his alcohol abuse. Close to the end of this therapy they had a weekend session, where the spouses, life partners and significant others were invited to an open discussion - sort of like an AA meeting.
I should add the clinic was a program sponsered by the German Lufthansa and the Good Templers Association. The directress was not a clinical psychologist, but a trained AA therapist.
Towards the end of the open sesssion, where everyone could express their views, she called me in for a "private discussion", which went something like this:
"You have a very aggressive stance towards alcoholics", she began.
"Let's just say I have a lot of repressed anger for being treated like I am part of the problem. But I don't think I was being aggressive towards anyone here", I replied.
"Well, to be honest, your lack of empathy for the poor victims of alcohol shocks me", she reprimanded.
"What you mean about that one guy, who was whining that if his third wife had never have left him, he wouldn't have gone back to drinking, so it was all her fault? And the fact that I told him that first step in being successful in managing his problem was to accept responsibility that he is responsible for opening a bottle, and he can't blame anyone else? Or the fact that I think that is YOUR job, and YOU don't like it when I do it?" I asked with a touch of sarcasm, but never really loud.
"Alcoholism is a disease, you understand", she started.
"Yes", I interrupted, "But unlike cancer, polio or MS, it is not a virus seeking a hapless victim; alcoholics foster their disease actively, knowingly, and consciously. They make a choice to continue to be sick or not."
"Well, if that's your viewpoint...." she sighed, before saying, "As long as you have that attitude, you will continue to be part of the problem, and not part of the solution."
"Pardon me?! Part of the problem? Look, Mrs. Sch------, I just spent the better part of the year learning that it is not my fault my husband is an alcoholic. I had to teach myself that I no longer accept the responsibility for his behaviour. That I will resist being his shepard, his guardian angle, his mummy, and the person who irons out the wrinkles in his life when 'shit happens'. I will resist making his decisions, telling him what he should or should not do, and becoming angry when he disappoints me and most of all controlling his behaviour. Where do you get off telling me I am part of the problem?"
"Well, you have to understand that alcoholism is a disease, and if he is going to be successful in combatting this disease, you will have to support him. For instance, I think it would be better if you promised me, you won't drink alcohol anymore. You both should just say no to alcohol", she said.
(Counted to five here so that I would not become angry.)
"No", I said. "I am not going to change myself, my life, my personality, my dislikes, or sacrifice my wants or needs for his sake. That is what co-dependency is all about. We give ourselves up for their sake, and they get to do what they want."
"Yes, but don't you get it? When you form a team and say 'we don't drink alcohol' that you are supporting him to resist his addiction?" she countered.
"I don't think you understand what you are really asking of me. I think you are asking me to continue being co-dependent, so that he ultimately makes it my responsiblity to say no to alcohol. I have to be the one who says, 'No, we don't drink.' I think you have this sort of myopism about alcohol. Look if he was bulimic or diabetic, would you be sitting here asking me to never eat a piece of cake again for the rest of my life? If he was addicted to shopping, who would buy groceries? And what if he was addicted to sex? Would you honestly think it would be good for me to remain celibate for the rest of my life, for his sake?"
"But, those addictions are different...."
I don't think so. And I hope I was right, when I told her that being abstinent just for his sake was just another form of co-dependency.
That being said, I do think you may be going through a bit of an anger phase. Support is needed, but sometimes the one who has been hurt is not the one who can give the support. That's why they have AA meetings.
I always wonder which came first, the alcoholic or the codependent. I was married for 13 years before my husband became a sex addict. Have I always been codependent? Is that why I picked him? Or did he have something to do with "making" me codependent?
Sorry, more questions than answers, but I believe she was way off base and you did a good job of standing up for yourself. But maybe a little anger is there....
Actually, in this case I did think I had the right to become angry. I used to not be able to become angry until this - just upset. Had I known nothing about co-dependency, I would have agreed, been willing and complient. I would have done what Mrs. Sch-------- wanted me to do.
But I found that sometimes I had to make myself artificially angry, in order to be heard; that sometimes you must behave loud and assertive, so that other people respect your decisions (and sometimes to convince yourself I mean what I say). Most of all that passive, submissive behaviour of "doing what you are told to do, because the authority figure wants you do this", is prolonging co-dependency.
All and all, I found out that I don't agree with the Good Templer program, which in end effect incorporates (e.g. abuses) family members by co-hearsing them to change their behaviour to cater to the addict's problem and they label it "support".
They approach alcohol as the evil and not the addict's behaviour, and beg the family to eliminate all aspects of alcohol from their lives, including asking the parents of alcoholics to forego alcohol, to boycott events or gatherings where alcohol is served, to boycott restaurants or interest groups which cater to alcohol tastes, and even to ask children to "remember daddy's problem and switch the TV programme if a beer commercial comes on".
If the Good Templer's treated sex addiction like they would alcohol, nobody in the entire family would even be allowed to go to the pool in a swimsuit. This is not an exaggeration, because according to my experience, they treat the source of the addiction the problem, and not the behaviour towards the source.
I found that they bascially seem to depend on a certain degree of co-dependency to "support" the addicts. Somehow I don't understand how a massive avoidance programme for the entire family really helps the addict cope and understand his addiction. It would be like someone in the family who suffers from depression, and everyone has to put on a happy face - cost it what it will, and then somebody inadvertantly forgets, and turns on a sad song on the radio, and puff! They're depressed again. Avoiding depression doesn't eliminate it. And in the same way, when the addict sucombs to their addiction again, the anger and disappointment in the supporting family is pre-programmed, because all the avoidance "support" was in vain.
How the alcoholic deals with it can be choice. Depending on how advanced the disease is, he may have lost his ability to make the right choices. Having alcohol in the house is like have drugs out in plain site for a cocaine addict - it is always best to remove the temptation. Especially early on - it may simply be too much for the alcoholic to deal with. Alcoholics do NOT foster their disease willingly - it is a battle they fight on a daily basis.
You beat me to it..good for you..
I tried to get my husband to quit pot for 10 years.It never happend until I moved out and all the sudden he quit to try to get me back. HAH.
Also agree that Alcoholism is a self harm behaviour, just like cigarettes, eating too much, anorexia, or SI that I do.
My x never helped me with my problem just put me down about it, meanwhile I was spending hours upon hours on his health and problems.
Being supportive is the right thing to do, but there is a point. And that point is entirely somehwere else with abusers.
Also some alcoholic's are codependants.
I am also codependent.
I attended a treatment facility last month for codependency; a live-in one week treatment program.
I was the only recovering alcoholic there.
What an eye opener.
I was there for my codependency, and surrounded by people who were not alcoholics, yet were affected by alcoholics. It was a profound experience for me, and for the others, to be in the same place... and to, while obtaining treatment for our codependency, see each other's perspective.
Support and codependency can be extremely difficult to discern when there are strong emotions involved, such as resentment, anger, self righteousness, fear, etc. in the mix.
Many times, when some of the other people at the treatment centre were openly expressing their anger and frustration about the alcoholics in their lives, they'd notice me sitting there, and become quiet - like I was one of "them" (from the enemy camp). And I felt, at times, not only like the enemy, but also like they were the enemy.
Extremely positive, and difficult, experience for us all.
At the end of the week, when we were to tell each individual what we liked and appreciated most about all of the others, individually, I was rather shocked and humbled by what every single one of those people told me.
They thanked me for helping them to understand more about what alcoholism is all about. They learned that there is not the bad alcoholic and the good codependent.
They understood more about the disease.
All alcoholics are codependent, and because they were not born with a bottle in their mouth, codependency came first.
They learned to drink to cope, and it became an addiction - predisposed or not - don't know, don't care. Not relevant.
If you love your spouse, or your father, or mother, or brother or sister or son or daughter.... and they are trying to get or remain sober... why would you ever drink in front of them, or have that toxin anywhere where they could have access to it. That is certainly not a loving action. Support is a loving thing.
If you were trying to lose weight, I would not have all of your favorite cookies, cakes and chips in the fridge and on the counter - especially if you were trying to recover from an eating disorder, or emotional eating.
People die from alcoholism every day - it is a deadly disease.
Saying that you will not be supportive in that way is not about refusing to be codependent - it is a matter of anger through a method of control.
That is what codependents do - they Control.
Recovery from codependency means digging into ourselves to find the ways in which we try to control all those things we have no control over and learning to give up that control.
Support is NOT the same as codependency or control.
Peace and blessings,
Wendy