Rummi,
My thought is he needs to get in for a biopsy and ultrasound, that should give you a pretty good idea of what is going on with the liver. You may have to find a new GI Dr. so you get a fresh perspective. Best to find out then wonder. Best wishes.

I am going to say this as kindly as I can and yet it's going to seem quite harsh. I will not sugar coat this. My response is based on my experience (see my profile) and is the truth as I see it. I also know that many on here will see it the same way.
The fact that he has liver problems with varying ideas of how serious and the fact that he has drank a lot in the past and still wants to and thinks it's ok is proof that He has a problem he's an alcoholic. I rarely ever diagnose anybody else's alcoholism but there is no doubt in this case.
Every time he picks up a drink he is pulling the trigger on a revolver with one bullet. Eventually he will have the drink that kills him and there will be no turning back. If he is drinking he is committing suicide and it's the most selfish self centered thing he could ever do.
The question for you is what are you going to do. This is my suggestion. Get strong get really strong tell him if he picks up a drink he is out of your life for good and follow through. Suggest that he go to AA it has the ability to change his life. Several of us in this group are involved in the program. Then you should start attending al-anon. There is a reason you are with an alcoholic and al-anon will help you discover why and how to avoid it in the future. Otherwise you will end up with someone just like him.
I'm sorry if this hurts but there is no legitimate rationalization for his drinking or you tolerating it.
God Bless Good Luck

Also get him to a heptologist or a gastroenterologist that specializes in liver disease.

I am goin to be blunt, rude even.

Let me make this clear to you. IF he HAS CIRRHOSIS and STOPS drinking, he may have over 20 or 30 years to live.
If he DOES NOT he will be DEAD in a COUPLE of years, tops.

I am sorry, but is his choice.

Good luck to you,

There doesn't seem to be any proof one way or the other as to whether he has or hasn't got cirrhosis. The sensible thing to do is to get blood tests and a CT scan or an utrasound scan.

If it means going to another doctor, or getting a referral to a liver specialist, or both then so be it. A definitive answer will put your minds at rest one way or another. I hope the news is good.

As for his drinking, it all depends whether you believe him or not that he only has one or two drinks. Heavy drinkers/alcoholics are notoriously good for appearing 'normal' and sober while lying through their teeth.

As a former Alcoholic (if there is such a thing) I agree with all the above advice.
Why can't the scientists develop a benign substance with all the pleasant effects of alcohol without Nasty one's?

The UK has always has a problem since the Gin house's of the Victorian era.
Maybe if America had legalised some other drug during prohibition, No I can't think of America without the Booze!

Hello
Your situation is a bit confusing due to the varying opinions on diagnosis. I know for myself that at the start of 2008 I saw a GI doc who told me yes, I had
cirhossis, but it was very managable with very few drugs. I was not drinking at the time, so I that was very good, and I took my meds and followed my diet perfectly. In August of '08 I moved back with my husband and found a doc down here and told him of my history, and kept on my meds (only 2 at the time) but before my referral for a new GI doc went thru I ended up in the ER with heavy bleeding and now am waiting to be put on transplant list. That's a far cry from managing my illness to almost dying. So I know what you mean and I agree with other on here who say you really should get the advice of another doc. You never do know and once you hit this stage, well...it's just not good. As for the drinking, I won't lecture to that, but just to say that with any liver condition, the best course of action is to not drink at all. Easier said than done for some...I was lucky, I've been not drinking for going on 2 years, even before I was diagnosed with any issue (simply because I wanted to just give up that lifestyle) and I was required to go to treatment for consideration on a transplant list last year, but before that I did it on my own...no AA, no nothing. Others swear by AA and that's very good too. I know that you need to be strong, but not just for him, but for you. Perhaps you do need to make it clear that it's you or alcohol. I don't know you and it would be wrong to say just get up and go....but sometimes putting the clear and only choice there is what needs to be done. He needs to stay well, but so do you.
I do wish you the very very best of luck and hope that whatever you decide you can find some answers to his illness and do the very best you can for both of you to stay healthy.
God bless,
CA

Ms. Rummi. That is what you must be feeling after reading all of these opinions. I have to say that I agree with Reed the most. He is dead on (no pun) on his assessment of the situation. He needs to find a doctor to find out what the hell is wrong with him and he needs to quit drinking PERIOD. I go to AA every Sunday and there`s a lot of caring members with nothing bad to say! You are welcome also. Al-anon is for you, go there whether he stops or not. BTW I quit early enough so my liver has recovered a bit and feel fine!

Be strong and draw a line with you on the sober side, if he wants to step over great, if not........................Jeff

I agree with everyone and the truth is I think that all of us who are faced with the situation, with a loved once, are forced to make a very difficult decision. I love my fiance dearly but I know that his problem is much bigger than him or me. He has tried multiple drug treatment centers and for some reason has a very negative opinion about AA. He says that most of the attendees of AA are lying about their sobriety and are hippocrates. I have attended AA meetings with him and to tell you the truth I found them to be very informative and comforting. I do have to add that I lived with an alcoholic father. He stopped drinking when I was 14 and has been sober ever since. My dad never attended AA nor rehab. and he managed to stop cold turkey. I guess because I saw him do it I kind of expect my fiance to do the same. My dad tells me that my fiance will stop when he chooses to and that no rehab or AA will help him stop. He says its all in the mind and will. He tells me to be patient and to give him space to figure out for himself and not to be so pushy. To leave him alone. Well I have a hard time doing that because I love him and I know what alcohol is doing to him.
As for the ultimatum, Well I have already told him that the drinking has to stop. I did not tell him completetly stop but told him that we could enjoy an occasional drink during special occasions. As long as its not a habit. He agreed with this however I know that even a little bit is not good. The thing is that I am torn between two philosophies. One is to "Live and let Live" enjoy life and have fun and whenever its time to go "go out with a bang" and then the second is "no, I must take care of him and provide him with the best medical care and nourish him with the best foods and comfort as I possibly can" and protect him from hurting himself by making sure there is no alcohol around. Which means he must change his lifestyly completely. You see he is a musician and a bartender. Booze has always been a part of the lifestyle and now its like I want him to do a complete 180. I guess this is why I am willing to compromise by saying a little at a time in hopes that one day he will choose for himself to stop.He is a very intelligent man and is very aware of his humanity. He tells me that he does not fear death and that when its his time, hes ready. That he is not going to live his life in fear. He tells me that he loves me and that he is willing to compromise so we'll see. RIght now he is locked up due to multiple DWI'S so when he comes home is when the real test will be. Hes been sober now for 1 year so he has had plenty of time to think about what he has to lose. To add to his package, he is bipolar. This makes this situation even more complicated. Believe me, I have my hands full. Let me just end by saying that, my fiance and I have been best friends for over 15 years, since high school. HE is not some random guy I just me and decided to make a life with. Its because of the history that we share that makes letting go so much harder. I know what a great guy he is. The problem is that he is sick with two very powerful diseases, Alcoholism and Bipolar disease. They have such a strong hold of him and I am doing everything in my power to fight for him when I know that if he was in his sane mind, he would be fighting too. I am not a quitter and as long as I am healthy and sane minded I will continue to search for a solution or a way to help my beloved. I must because if I let go he will be lost to everyone. That is not something I am willing to do without a fierce fight. Now we have cirrhosis to deal with. And well, another battle I am faced with. As long as he gives me an inch of hope and as long as he is willing to try to continue to improve I am willing to stick around.

Rummi,where to begin? Your fiance is an alcoholic, you know it and he knows it. As an alcoholic myself, we can be very cunning, deceitful and lie more than tell the truth. The problem is when you lie to yourself and fall for it with everyone else. How many times did I say "leave me alone, let me figure it out for myself" etc, etc..
I have been married for 21 years and my wife and I have been friends since 6th grade.The hardest thing I have ever had to do was listen to my wife say was stop drinking or she was leaving with the our 3 girls. That was 2-23-09. The second hardest thing was to walk through the doors of AA with all those liars and hippocrites but unfortunately that is what we are. That was 2-24-09.I will always be grateful to my wife for standing up to me and that I was not too dumb to listen. I was diagnosed with cirrhosis about two months later.
I had the most negative attitude about AA as well but I now know that my biggest fear was that it would work. I enjoyed my lifestyle which was all about drinking it was almost required in my occupation as well (or I thought it was). I have not had a drink since 2-23-09 and I know if I have one now it will not be just one.
Sorry for the sermon but the alcohol has to stop before the cirrhosis can be addressed. A Dr can explain that better than I, but go find one who knows cirrhosis. If I can be alcohol free for almost 5 months then your fiance can for one day. Worry about tomorrow when the sun comes up. I will be praying for you both. tbonz
p.s. AA is working for me but there are many different options.

GI Bleeds don't happen for no reason. They afe often associated with cirrosis. Your husband needs to see a real hedpatologist instead of a GI doc - and he needs to do it immediately.

The majority of these posts start by talking about AA and alcoholism before getting to your question. Your husband should check this out too, but it is secondary to the real problem.

Since he dislikes AA, look up Schick Shadel on the net. 10 days and 2 recaps and the problem is gone.

But - I say again! Hepatologist, NOW! Stop guessing.

Rummi,
I was somewhat confused in your first post as to what was actually going on with your fiance. I an still unclear.

Firstly you say he had an esophageal bleed (once) in 2004. Cirrhosis is the most common cause for this type of bleeding, but not the only cause. If it was varices and left untreated then 70% of people with this condition will die within the first year. The varices can be caused by alcoholic cirrhosis or viral hepatitis.

Was he treated for esophageal varices?

You then go on to say that he had a Mallory Weiss tear in 2007. The most common reason for such tears is forceful or long term vomiting or coughing. There does not seem to be any connection with cirrhosis.

Between then and now, it would appear that nothing else has been wrong with him. So now I don't understand why he has had conflicting medical diagnosis in the last two years. Diagnosis of what??

If he has had no symptoms of cirrhosis since the bleed in 2004, why do you even suspect he has cirrhosis? And what was he being diagnosed for during the last two years??

Cirrhosis as a disease is only called cirrhosis at stage 4 of liver disease. Blood tests, ultrasound and/or a biopsy will confirm it. But from what you say he has not had ultrasound or a biopsy or a CT scan. You say his 'labs' are normal, assuming this means blood/urine, I guess with no sign of raised liver enzymes.

Who told you he had cirrhosis? Was he diagnosed with alcoholic cirrhosis and if so HOW was he diagnosed?

Your second posting muddies the water even more......

When did he attend AA meetings and why did he go?
You also say that he didn't like AA and that is understandable. Some people get great benefit from it, others do not. There is a huge amount of controversy about the effectiveness or otherwise of AA, but that is not a discussion for this board.

You say you have not told him to stop drinking completely, but as I'm sure you know there is no half way measure for an alcoholic. They either drink or they don't. Occasional drinks at special occasions do not work.

You say that right now he is locked up for multiple DUIs - this pretty much confirms he is a hard core alcoholic. If he is a clever man and aware of his humanity he would realize the stupidity of drunken driving.

Then you go on to say that he has been sober for a year - Is that because he was jailed for 1 year or more? Or did he give up drinking before going into jail??

To compound the confusion, you then say he is bi-polar (which is controllable with drugs) and that he is now suffering from two diseases; namely cirrhosis and bi-polar disease.

Is he being treated for either? and what impact has one got on the other if any??

So, finally you ask for help. But help for what. There is no evidence that he has cirrhosis, and there is no cure for it anyway. The bi-polar stuff is way outside my realms of experience so I cannot comment.

So, taking your two posts together I am lost as to what is really going on and even whether he is free or incarcerated!

I know people here are always willing to help and will do their best to do so. But I feel you need to concisely state what the known facts are and not present a moving target with no clarity about anything.

I don't want to be harsh, but having spent a long time trying to pull your posts apart to try to help you I have ended up with more questions than answers!

Judging by the multiple answers already given in this thread from intelligent, knowledgeable people, I suspect I am not the only one who fails to understand either what the problem is and what you actually want help with!!!

Please clarify if you can, or just call me stupid!!!

Confossed from Atlanta,

Craig

Craig I am sorry for your confusion. Let me try to add clarity in the best possible way that I can. I ramble because there is too much to say. So let me start by answering your first question. His 2004 bleed was treated by Variceal banding. He had a minor bleed a few months after that but was treated as well. He was given Nadolol for treatment however he took it for a short while and then stopped until he met me in 2006. His next hospitalization was for the Mallory Weiss tear. During that visit the GI doc that scoped him told me that he had multiple stage 1 varices in his stomach and esophagus and that he would be dead in a year if he did not get a transplant. Now where it gets confusing is because another doc, the internist, told us that he didnt understand why that GI doc had told us that. He said that my fiance had a good 20 years before he needed any transplant. SO that was the first confliction. Now since then, my fiance has been healthy. No symptoms of Cirrhosis. SO you ask why I think he has cirrhosis. Well because that GI doc told me so. He said that even though my fiance had not had an ultrasound or biopsy he could confirm his diagnosis based on the varices.
Now about his drinking. Well he was going to AA meetings because of his probation. HE does not believe in AA. He does not like to go but since it was court ordered he went. From 2006 to 2008 he remained sober due to an alcohol monitoring device on his ankle and because of his strict probation. However in 2008 he failed a breathalizer test when he attended a probation meeting which revoked his probation and sent him to prison for 5 years. He has been in prison now for 1 year. Now the docs in there have told him that his liver is working fine and that they have no reason to believe that he has cirrosis since he has no history of HEpatitis nor a lengthy enough history of drinking since he is only 36. And since he has gone for periods of time without drinking they say that his liver has had time to regenerate anyway. SO I guess this is where I am confused. Shouldnt he have more symptoms by now. Especially since he has had varices since 2004?

As far as his bipolar. He is on medication for treatment however it doesnt seem to work and to be honest I dont even know if he is truly bipolar. THats a total different case. Either way he does see a psychiatrist and they prescribed Seroquel to him.But he is not consistent in taking his meds anyway.

And as for what kind of help do I need. Well I guess I just need to vent and share, not really help. I hope to attain information on related symptoms and course of treatment for cirrhosis. IN addition I would like to meet people who also suffer from alcoholism and cirrhosis and learn about their success stories in hope to apply similar strategies to my fiance to assist him in his rehabilitation. I guess I am doing my homework.

Rummi,
Thanks for making that clearer for all of us!

In terms of finding information, read back through the posting in both the discussions and advice sections. I would also point you in the direction of the alcoholics group though whether you get much actual help there is questionable.

Ask targeted questions here, and make use of messages if you want to ask someone a question, but don't want it visible to everyone.

We are all here to help and will do so. Ask away!!!!

You are welcome to message me at any time.

Thanks,

Not confossed any more in Atlanta!

Craig

And yes do get a firm diagnosis.