It is sort of like cold meds that you buy over the counter when it was found out it was used to make meth they put a limit on them and put them behind the counter and you have to show ID to buy cold meds because of drug addicts.

I think if there is anything that can hurt the public there is going to be a outcry from the public for officials to control it and in the end it will hurt some people.

The same goes with narcotics there is a no win situation because of the circumstances but you as in us have to have that relationship with our doctors and do what needs to be done to make sure we get the medical care we need and sometimes it will come at an expense for test such as MRI's or what ever to prove that we need to have certain meds legitimately. It is sad but it is how it works

I agree with Manny. The problem is the doctor. A good doctor will judge each patient and if you have a good relationship you will get the care and treatment that is best for you. But the first duty of the doctor is to do no harm so he has to take every precaution to make sure that the drugs he prescribes will not be abused by the patient or by someone else.

Of course there are some doctors who have shaky reputations themselves and therefor will not prescribe because they are under investigation. There are also some who truly believe that the drug is bad and won't prescribe it...but that is a human nature thing. I went to a top surgeon to see about TOS and he doesn't believe it exists!! Ummm should I accept his determination or do I find another surgeon?

The other thing that many patients won't accept is that they are abusing their meds. Most addicts were once legitimate patients. They went into the orthopedist with a strained ligament and were given Oxys. They took them as directed ... even after the pain went away. Then they go back because they are hooked. And when that doctor says no they go to another and another.

I would rather be inconvienienced and even do without something that is killing people. We have to show ID to purchase alcohol, we (in NY) have our cold medicine linked to our drivers license, we submit to blood and urine tests to get another script. Drugs are pulled from the market because the risks are worse than the benefit. Small prices to pay to save lives.

I see your point Lady Fair. IMO if abuse & death over snorting ADs or any other medication were to make the headlines like narcotics I'd say yes. Someone with no understanding & most likely people who have never had the serious need of an anti depressant would push to stop or greatly limit the distribution.

There has always been this stigma when it comes to narcotic pain meds. Now I'm not sure if its my imagination but it seems to me when the "Rich & Famous" started appearing in the news so did cracking down on prescribing.

The sad part is there will always be a way for some to get what ever it is they want & there will always be those who pay for their poor choices.

Its not the drugs its the people that abuse them.

Years ago you did not get pain meds for any extended amount of time unless you had cancer. I pray we never go back to that way.

There will always be those who abuse anything they can get their hands on.

As it stands now we will be limited in the relief we will get because of those who make bad choices.
The changes that will take place with in the PM world are not are PMs choice but our governments.

The sad part is those who really want to get their hands on something will find a way. Those who can afford to pay for it will get their way.

There are times its not that someone ODed but mixed medication that should not be mixed. Went from one doctor to another without informing either.

At a Gyno appointment I had to sign a release for the doctor to be allowed to do a pharmacy check on me & my meds.

I felt violated & cornered. There are times my pharmacist will send me across the street if he is out of my meds or has a generic that does not agree with me. He makes the call & he understands, but the doctors who do these checks will not. So what does that mean? I have told my PM & my pharmacist has assured me he will have my back but the other doctors won't care. I know that.
i can't help but think this checking on patients pharmacy & medication history will be mandatory some day also. If its not already.

So I have to explain to every doctor & hope they get it? When most do not understand one thing about CP & our meds.

The PMs can do everything in their power to assure their patients are legit. There will be those who have pain inflicting illness that does not appear on any test t& I pray they do not suffer.

I went 2 yrs with no real proof of my pain, it was there but took its good ole time showing up. I can't imagine living in that pain. I had no one say "I'm sorry we thought you were crazy, Im sorry we charted you were bored &/or depressed"......................I can't imagine how it will be now with the changes the DEA want.

The only hope we have is standing up for ourselves & working with our doctors to assure them we follow the rules. As offensive as it may be I'd comply with whatever my PM wants so I can maintain some quality in my life.

The Dr. Oz show was a start but he was a bit late in the game. Sadly enough.
Our bodies may fail us but we have our voices. We may very well have to let those voices be heard & the more voices heard hopefully the harder it will be to ignore.

I do get what you saying & its sad. We all pay for the poor choices of others.
Its like my neighbor committed the crime by robbing the bank but just because I was at the same bank making a deposit I'm in prison with him . Hope that makes sense.
Sammy

Sammy I think it's more like "your neighbor robbed a bank" so now the bank has to have an armed guard (which comes out of their revenue so ultimately you the customer pays for it) and you have to swipe your ATM card at the door to get in.

More expense and more regulation because someone did something bad. But the alternative is to risk another robbery.

Wow this is a really good thread. I don't know if anyone mentioned it but wasn't the oxy HCL the thing that they were having trouble with, that worked great for CP, but was being abused, that they had to put plastic in it or something?

David.

A few months ago I heard on the news that kids are abusing Ginger. That's right, a spice. I was dumbfounded. I'm not going to ask "what else?" because there may be something else.

Thank you manny... I knew you would get it....

keeska... your comment is partly why I posted this ... Thank you. Ginger huh>>? UGG... I am not that shocked anymore but gross right?? LOL


The way I see it ...( just an random example) Snorting / shooting/abusing Ginger wont shut down the entire "Ginger Industry" So... you go right ahead! Have AT IT idiots. As long as you don't AFFECT anyone else and their life by the *stupid* that YOU do -- that's all that counts.

Yeah, I was going to mention the ( fictional?) LOL... tales of getting high off of licking a frogs butt ( rain forest or someplace) .... BUT>>> I 'm pretty sure there would be someone shutting that down real quick in case a person were to OD on a frogs ass... but wait... NOT unless a Pharmaceutical company could get their mitts on it and bottle the gloppity goop ( dont even want to THINK about what it is ) send it to greedy plastic surgeons in Beverly Hills primed and ready to squirt this stuff in the lines of bored housewives trying to look like they are 20 years old again.
If ...BIG $$$$$... is involved .... rules and regulations seem to change mysteriously because everyone wants " a piece of the pie" - so it seems.

But that's a **WHOLE** different can of worms...LOL

sammy...

I wanted to copy/paste so many things that you said in your post (because I agree with you on your comments) so... I will just skip all that ...and say I agree... LOL

You said ..."its not the drugs its the people that abuse them. "
Yes right on !

AND

"The sad part is those who really want to get their hands on something will find a way. Those who can afford to pay for it will get their way. "

I DO think people miss the point about drugs; Rxd and illegal and the reasons why people have to be responsible for themselves. An arm has to lift up a substance and a hand must put it in a mouth. Quit blaming others and not using your own brain to think. Seems that people rely on others to tell them whats right or wrong or safe or not. I think its only going to get worse. Government will rely on that more and more and slowly it will become the norm.

Open those eyes IF... you like to eat what you want and raise your children the way you want... ( on and on)

Anyway I have to close - dont have any more time.

Nice day all....

wow lladyfairhair thank you thats a awsome post i agree with what you posted

i also I see your point Lady Fair

@ sammyo1 here where i live they do the checking on patients pharmacy & medication history i think

As a sufferer of chronic nerve pain, I can't help but think, "Addict -
but for the grace of God go I." I lost count a long time ago of the number of doctors I've seen. I can say that most of them have offered me some type of pain medication. I have never been able to take tylenol, advil, aspirin, hydrocodone, percocet, etc, etc.

I finally came across a LLMD by luck. (My nephew worked for her and got me an appointment. She wasn't taking new patients at the time.) She actually LISTENED to me when I gave her my medical history. She did some tests and determined that I am physically incapable of processing 60% of all medications. At last, I finally had the answer as to why the pain medicines made me so sick! They build up in my body and become toxic to me! It isn't just pain
medicine either. It's some of the antibiotics, anti-seizures, anti-convulsants too. I have a list that I have to consult whenever a doctor wants to change any medication.

Wouldn't it be nice if a brilliant young scientist came up with a test to determine if a person would become addicted to pain medicine if given them? Perhaps lives could be spared, families wouldn't be torn apart, jobs wouldn't be lost, etc., etc. Yeah, I know that will
never happen.

As for the anti-depressant hypothetical example, I think that's already happening. I imagine a severely depressed person that finds an anti-depressant that works probably feels "high" because he's no longer depressed. So he stays on the anti-depressant. "Needs" it in order to function. How many people in the world take anti-depressants? I'm currently trying Cymbalta because it's supposed to help with nerve pain. (I hate the way it makes me feel and it doesn't seem to help much but I've had 3 or 4 doctors recommend it.)

Anyway, I feel for those of you that are having such a hard time getting the pain medicine that you need for relief from your pain. I feel for the person that gets the pain medicine thrown at them and then becomes an "addict" too.

Another great discussion topic here on DS!

Thanks for letting me participate:-)

@ Tigg & Manny.
That is very true. A good doctor will treat his/her patients based on a trust factor they have developed. Yet if what Ive been hearing is true the doctors will be limited on what they can prescribe & how they prescribe it.


For the longest time my PM has requested my husbands presence, especially when making any changes. He feels not only is he there for my protection, as 2 sets of ears are better then one, but for his.

At first I did not like this but with my husbands input he is better able to assess. Now he does not & cannot make every appointment but we try for the ones that are important.

He has shared experiences with patients & let it be known if there is fear of abuse he will not drop the patient but work through it. Now I'm sure he expects some cooperation. I admire him for this.
He tries to let his patients know you can come to me.

I try to put myself in his shoes & although I don't always like his calls I understand the reasons behind them. I also acknowledge that building trust when it comes to prescribing is an ongoing process. He has pointed out that patients will turn to meds for the wrong reasons although they are prescribed for the right reasons.
To watch for this & be careful. Now because he has taken the time to point this out I keep everything he says in mind.

He also stated over a yr ago it would come down to PMs needing or wanting proof of pain causing conditions or injuries. I have to believe the effort to make changes have been in place for longer then we realize.

Both my husband & I noticed a change in my PM & his office during a couple visits. We could tell something was different. Shortly after he basically told us he had to change the way he ran his practice & this was not by choice.

As for keeping track of meds & pharmacy's used I believe the system is called MAPS.

I can see this being implemented in the future for patients & I can see why.
Although even for me it can be misunderstood. I plan on speaking with my PM about this & my pharmacist. I do use the 2 but by the suggestion of my pharmacist. My PM has admitted not all generics are created equal & there is a small percentage of people who respond different to certain ones.

The future may bring some challenges & as I stated we may have to fight for our right to have compassion & fair treatment.

This has brought up an interesting point. Are patients that are compliant suppose to go without because of those who make poor choices?
Perhaps as far as the "rich & fameous" perhaps they should focus on the doctors that treat these celebs instead or saying the drug is the killer. As stated these people have to willing be putting these pills in their mouths. If we need proof so should they.

Once again its not the medication its the person who abuses.

I can say in all honesty my sister or husband or who ever can take a cold & sinus medication & its more impairing then meds I'm on or been on....Anything that can be abused will be. Ginger? For gosh sakes.....The world has gone crazy.....

Yes the Oxy has changed. For some it no longer works. others say its the same. The addicts I'm sure have moved on to another med to abuse.

Ive heard of others who had problems digesting, absorbing or whatever you want to call it, their meds. Good point & one to keep in mind.
That doctor should be commended & I wish there were more out there.

Hope I did not stray to for from the topic but wanted to share what my PM has shared with me thus far.
This is what abuse has craeted.
I have 0 tolerance, not only for my own sake but for those who suffer do to others poor choices.
Sammy

Excellent thread and I get it. Thank you lladyfair for starting it. Your hypothetical could happen with any drug. Right now at this moment there are other drugs out on the street that we may know nothing about. Manny you so nailed it with the ingredients in cough meds that were used for the wrong purpose.

Much to think about and I have thought. In regards to anti-depressants....your body becomes dependent on them and withdrawal can be as bad as from narcotics. Yet prescriptions are never questioned. Those drugs for me can be filled up to 4 or 5 days in advance and you can get a 90 day supply.

So hypothetically if it became a street drug and regulated I hate to think about the general population. Your point is well taken lladyfair. Pain medication is no different and has as much purpose as anti-depressants.

Manny and Tigg2 both are right on relationship with doctor. I believe the GPS and Primary Care physicians are taking as much heat now as pain management clinics. It is possible they are given criteria now on what they can prescribe and quantity. I think they are "under the gun" so to speak.

In the past I would have said having a good relationship with a doctor who has seen you for over 10 years would be enough for the doctor to justify prescribing what they believe is right for their patient. Now I think those doctors are under the microscope and have to keep good records and prove need for narcotics.

Tigg hits on another point. Responsibility of the patient is important. It is very easy to abuse when the med is justified. A percent of the population
just doesn't have respect for meds in general. Antibiotics are taken until they feel better and are stopped. Some pay no attention to dosage and take it when they remember. Some double the dose if they forget.

Narcotics can be very dangerous in the hands of these people. A small overdose can result in death. Do I think that is the case with my friends and fellow chronic pain sufferers? Absolutely not. That is why it is important to have a doctor who knows you and all of your health issues.