I agree with you on this too. I personally think that TV has been the greatest cause of the degeneration of our society in general. It CAN be a good tool for informing of current events in the world. But shows like Honey Boo Boo and some of the other base reality shows only reveal to us what our society has become.

But I also think that other "movements" have also played a very large role in degrading women. I know this probably will not go over well, but I think the Women's Liberation Movement was the single most influential slippery slope that began the breakdown of the family and the role of motherhood as being the highest calling in scripture. I was an eyewitness to the "morning show" promoters of Women Libbers encouraging women to get out of the home and ridiculing those who chose not to. I actually had a woman, who I did not know personally, ask me what I did for work and when I said I was a stay at home mom she lectured me right there in the store if I recall correctly. I remember that I got a tongue lashing because I was not helping to contribute financially to the cost of running a house and therefore leaving all of the responsibility to my husband.

So, in many ways I think we did contribute to bringing it upon ourselves.

I only had one chance to be a mother, and I have to fight the feeling constantly that I blew it. My son was born when I was 36 after years of infertility and the loss on one child before birth. I then lost another child before birth after my son was born. I wanted to do everything right: natural childbirth, LaLechi League, homeschool. None of those things worked out. I was incredibly grateful when the little man came in with the epidural, my milk didn't come in, and my son, after several years of constant battle, at the end of his high school studies simply wouldn't cooperate and we had to put him into public school, the same one I had gone to 35 years before and swore I'd never darken its doors again.

I successfully kept him away from TV as he grew up, but I failed with the computer which in his generation took over the minds of our children. Had it not been for the computer so much would have been avoided. He was able to have a much too close cyber relationship with his girlfriend in high school, which of course led to the real thing. I kept him in church and 95% of his activities revolved around Christian based organizations and Christian people. I knew that I just could not be all things to him so I tried to have other Christian people in his life to take up the slack with camping and drama and youth groups. He was a bundle of energy, which I am not, and so I relied on "Christian people" to be Christian people. Most of them were. Many, many people were wonderful to him, and he had so many experiences in our large church that were very positive and taught him so much about independence and contributing to a cause.

But not all the Christian people were really serious about being Christian people, and when he became involved with his girlfriend at the age of 15, I was taken off guard. Without going into the whole thing in detail again they led him away. As the girl was leading him away with sex, I foolishly thought that the relationship would end, and I more foolishly thought that the other parents cared about what was going on. I trusted them too much.

My son came away believing that they were much better people than we were. The mother was a nurse and so I had "wasted my life" being a homeschool mother. They had a better house and more money. so he didn't want to bring the girl over to our house. And that infernal computer which "he had to have for school" became his drug of choice.

I don't know what the answer is. So many other kids who grew up with him are doing just fine. His best friend from the age of two until he took up with his girlfriend is still a virgin and is going with one of his best friends from Royal Rangers also still a virgin. Many kids are going off to Christian colleges and becoming missionaries. And so I'm left feeling like a blew it. I watch on Facebook as the people I knew share their pictures of their sons and daughters who love them so much and just came back from a vacation.

You can have a Christian family and go to a Christian church and try to do it the Dr. Dobson way, but sometimes, everything just collapses in front of you. Now I'm still trying to do it the Christian way and forgive and not be too confrontational. I've never done a thing to these people other than ask the pastor to speak with them and write letters asking to see my grandson. I've given them gifts. I've heaped coals on their heads. And I feel like this Christian family has slit my throat and left me in a ditch to die, and my son went right along with it.

I will not turn away from Jesus Christ. Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him. I'd sure like to see a glimmer of why He has allowed this though.

I don't believe going to a christian school makes the kids turn away from bad behavior. When my nephews played football and basketball against one of the Catholic private schools, the coach said he had never heard such vulgar words come out of those kids mouths. Even my nephews came home in shock at the words those good Christian kids from a private school used.

And my cousin's daughter was a teen counselor at a Christian summer camp. She couldn't wait to go each summer. Later I found out all the young counselors would sneak away at night into the woods and drink and have sex, and the adult leaders had no clue, or looked a blind eye - not sure.

So, I believe that unless our children have truly accepted Christ into their hearts, any Sunday School, church camp, church services, etc. will not hold them true to God. It is something they need to do themselves.

And then there's my son who had accepted Christ and was walking a good Christian life style - until he met my now DIL, who did not believe in Christianity, hated her birth mother and left home to live with her dad and step mom and told lies about her birth mom (who I later met and found to be a wonderful christian woman), who persuaded my son to leave his family and extended family for her. All of us were shocked beyond belief. But the heart and the lure of sex are very powerful weapons of satan.

So - moms - I think we all did the best we could and we just have to let go and let God. God is weeping at the behavior of our estranged children, and he knows we would welcome them back with open arms, should they choose to come back.

I also believe God gives us gifts to do other things, in addition to parenting. That is what we all need to find now. There is a lot of life left and I want to follow whatever it is that God is calling me to do. My problem is that I just don't listen sometimes.

Just want to clarify something that I said above...." So, in many ways I think we did contribute to bringing it upon ourselves." The "WE" was not singling out estranged parents - the "WE" was as in ".....we as a society" who bought into the movements determination to get mothers out of the home and into careers being the most important have to bear "some" of the responsibility for the breakdown of the family.

Right on Norske. I agree with everything you wrote. A little different circumstance--My D went to a small Christian elementary school, and thrived. When she insisted on going to an affluent Public High School, against my protests, her grades dropped dramatically.Their peers have great influence on them, and it's hard to parent in a society which is base. I remember when my ex mil thought in the early 1980's how disgusting the bad breath commercials were! Now the sexual performance commercials, commercials for sexual devices, what is the world coming to? What would she think now?

I am sad about this world, our country, (sorry to say) the outrageous debt the US is in, and to China, of all things!! Sending jobs away from a country which is desperate for jobs, all for the almighty dollar! And more money being printed at alarming rates, with no value behind it, will increase the depression (recession). I am not optimistic about the economy. What reason is there to believe the word will improve, the US economy will improve?

I am so disillusioned with churches, with Christians in general, not to you on here! This is an exceptional site, that is encouraging--it's rare, and I hope it stays. But Christianity is not what it should be. There are no people I know who care, keep one another accountable, encourage one another. Maybe I'm just living in a corrupted city where no love can be felt in general-just a rat race. Neighbors slander and gossip one another.

I also ask God over and over what can I do to be of use for the rest of my life.? I have no agenda, please guide me, what is your purpose for me??. I listen, but don't hear an answer yet. My wish is to go Home where I will be loved, but I know He won't let me go Home early, ny mom still alive at 95, oh Lord, please not me.

Sorry Tikva, i feel your pain. I know exactly how you feel. MANY MANY MAYBE MOST children grow up and are influenced by a spouse. Becoming negative toward a parent is not unusual. And yes, mothers are bashing material for teenaged AND grown D. I am or was, don't know anymore. I did ask D last month to know what I was bashed about--I really DO want to know, Too painful to ever ask before, she told me in 2002 her and sis were bashing me-who says that to a mother? but now I am strong enough to ask.. SHe was too rude to acknowledge the email. I know C who are lacking in respect for P's cannot be happy peolple.

My conclusion is that parents love their children unconditionally, children do not love this way, grown ones don't. Young ones do because parents equate to survival, but grown ones go their own way. A parent-grown child relationshp is not on a level playing field. NOT mutually unconditional love. ONE WAY unconditional love. Parents, esp. mothers love unconditionally. Better not to hope for fulfillment from a grown child. Usually it is men who go along with their wives, but my d gave up all she was for a husband. What she liked, what she believed in etc. gave up immediately, I was shocked to see it. But our grown children put all their dreams in their spouse and the children they will bear. as it should be--cleave from the parents-but still honor them-meaning being decent-this I don't see. I will not see my children doting over me if I ever get a terminal disease. Unless divine interervention has occurred. I will not treat a terminal disease.

I think the lesson for me was that I put my children, my comfort, my business, my success, my house ansd possessions, my image, my significant other before God--those are all idols in His eyes. Idoltry is a subtle thing. "many will say they know me, but I won't know them". That is a major head's up to me. I want Him to know me, so most of this isn't that important. Though painful enough to feel slayed over and over.

When and if our grown and cold hearted C ever SUFER--then they MAY have empathy someday. If a son gets kicked out by the wife, he may be back. I know with my D's, some disaster or tragedy would have to happen to soften their hearts. ONLY when I experienced exactly what I did to my d's p. gma, did I have sorrow and empathy for her. Only that could show me what she went through. We are dense and largly insensitve, selfish creatures, how God can love us is AMAZING-I tell Him how amazing is His ability to love all the time. How do You do it?

God will show it to us all the why's, He will make good come of our agony, because we love Him. I said that all the time Tikva, Though You slay me, I still trust in You. when we go Home, I'm sure we will say "ooooh.....that's why..." There could easily be very important lessons that required those dire situations.

I think in Oswold Chambers' conmmentary, he said that the hearts will grow cold within families, but the tribulation will re-unite people. So there IS something to look forward too :)