I am so sorry you are feeling the pain of an EC. We have all been there. If you have read any of my posts, I was a wreck. I would be sitting at my desk crying and my work suffered. My office manager had a good hard talk with me. It helped -- a little. My family tried to make me happy and forget, but as the old saying goes "until you work in my shoes"....

It wasn't until I found this site that I didn't feel alone any longer. Here everyone actually was experiencing the pain I was and understood. There is a topic called "Detachment" that helped me more than anything. I read and re-read it. I can allow myself to detach for awhile, to concentrate on things that are fun. You have a lot of interests. Pick one or two and really concentrate on it.

To me, detachment means I can set aside, with God's help, my ES and his family and concentrate on me. My prayer is always that they come back into my life but I have to let it be in God's timing.

It is sort of like after Christmas we let go of all the preparations, buying, planning, etc. for another year. I have let go of my ES -- just for now -- and changing my thoughts to "when" he comes back, not "if" he does. Thinking that he will be back sometime frees me to concentrate on my own life right now.

You are in my prayers.

Purple, I am so sorry...I wish I could be there to give you a hug! I thought I would share a few things that helped me out of that pit of agony and despair...with one caveat. I just posted about a very bad day I had a few days ago, and questioned whether I had "let go" too much, because I couldn't even remember all my grandkids' middle names and birthdates. (I finally remembered my gd's middle name :-) I'm saying this to tell you that I don't really know if the way I did it was "right", but I do know that I had to do something to pull myself together and attend to the needs of my family. I still had two teenage daughters and a son with a chronic illness living at home, plus I had to put forth a lot of effort to undo the damage my SIL had done to try to tear apart our family. Because of this, I took the only way out that I could, which was the "detachment" of the other thread, although I didn't recognize it as that while in the process of it.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'll share my way and you can take or leave whatever you want from it :-)

To start with, I counseled with my pastor, who recommended a Christian counselor. They were both able to show me some of the deeper issues that had taken place, mostly of my SIL's doing, which was able to help me realize it wasn't me, or at least not just me. I had to realize that none of us--NO ONE--is a perfect parent...but most adult kids still manage to have at least a semblance of a relationship with their parents. The puzzle piece that helped me answer the question of "why" was recognizing my SIL's involvement. Regardless of whether or not you have someone else who has played a part in the estrangement, I believe that if you can come to terms with the guilt and shame (if you struggle with that), it gives a little bit of peace in the situation...at least it did for me. And that's the thing...a little bit of peace here, a little there...will finally give you a greater measure of peace in your life overall.

While in counseling, there were a few steps I took that helped me start to get a grip on things and let go of the pain a little. At the risk of being criticized, I will share that I had to stop begging God to bring my daughter back. Night and day, as you are saying, I was begging with Him, pleading for the nightmare to come to an end. At some point, I had to say, "God, I know You are sovereign in this situation. I know You love me and my daughter, and for some reason have allowed this thing to come about. Please protect her and the children, help me forgive my SIL and daughter, and give me strength to help the rest of my family through this." And then I stopped praying about it. I had to accept things the way they were, and let God be in charge. I tried to push thoughts of the estrangement...of my daughter and my sweet grandbabies...out of my mind. When I asked my counselor how to handle the thoughts of them, he said just say a quick prayer for them and then push the thoughts away, so I did. That's the type of praying I did...but no more begging. I also had to take down pictures of them all, and put away any "Mom" things that had been gifts from ED, because they always made me cry. I know others here have done the opposite--kept their loved ones alive in their minds by looking at these things...but I just couldn't do it or I think I literally would have gone insane. It was like constantly reopening the wound, every single time I would see a picture of any of them.

So here I was, with 7 huge gaps in my life where my ED and her family had been. I realized how much of my identity had been wrapped up in mothering and grandmothering...as others have said here, I believe some of these things had become idols in my life. I had to sit down...literally...and make some goals for myself that would help me become someone other than JUST a mom and grandma. I wrote out four columns on a piece of paper, labeled Heart, Mind, Soul, Body, and I made goals in each of these areas. For instance, under "Mind" I wrote down "Take classes", "Learn ______", and so forth. And then I started working on those goals...have gone back to school, taken up photography, started a new way of eating, etc. The piece I'm afraid I neglected until more recently was the "Soul" column...I didn't pursue some of my goals of Bible study and prayer that I think I should have.

I know I'm dragging this on, and I also know my way may not work for everybody, and some may even say I've done things wrong, but I wanted to share what worked for me. If I could go back and change some things, I would have spent more time in God's word and prayer, but that is coming now, when I am calmer. Another thing I found, which may be counter-intuitive, is that I couldn't listen to a lot of Christian music, at least not music that wasn't praise and worship. So much of the music on the Christian radio is about God's blessings in the face of trials, etc....which is very comforting! But I found it kept reminding me that I had this great, big, horrible trial that I was in the midst of. I found music that was more worshipful, or even just secular "oldies" music would help me get my mind off the pain and cheer me up. I would put on my headphones and dance around the kitchen to Simon and Garfunkel or the Moody Blues :-) It's just what worked for me...

And, as much as I was thankful to have found this site and so relieved to know others knew how I felt, I had to leave for a while because it, too, was always a reminder of the estrangement. I came back, again, when I was a bit calmer (although panicked about seeing ED at my daughter's wedding!)...I am glad to be here now, and can talk a more about it, but in that initial stage of such raw pain and trying to start my life over, so to speak, I had to stop thinking about the estrangement all the time.

Please forgive me if I have said anything offensive to anyone, or if my method of letting go seems wrong. There are, and always will be, bad days. There is no easy way of traveling this road. I remember thinking, when I would find something that would make me laugh, how foreign it felt to be happy. It would always catch my attention! A smile, or a splash of joy...now they are more frequent and aren't as noticeable :-) And now, I feel free to pray for my daughter. I feel that I have been released from the barrage of emotions (at least most days :-) and can pray now for her situation, for strength for her and her family. I can even, sometimes, humbly ask that God heal our relationship, although it is not the same desperate begging and pleading I did earlier. I know I can survive without her, if I need to...as painful as it seems. I know there are other things in my life that bring me joy. And, I never would have believed two years ago that I could find the strength to see through such a terrible trial by fire, but, also as others have said, by God's grace I am not the same weak, needy mom that I was two years ago. I feel more dignity and confidence and can look ahead to the future and dream of achieving some things in my life even at my age...of learning new things and going new places--literally and figuratively--with or without my ED in my life. Of course, I would rather have her :-) ...but I have come to accept the fact that I may not, or that if I do the relationship may be fundamentally different than it was before. I believe she, also, is not dependent on me anymore (obviously), so we will probably never connect in the same way. Maybe that's not all bad...adult children are supposed to leave their parents and cleave to their spouses, and make a new life for themselves. As hard as estrangement, which is an unhealthy break from parents, is, I believe that somewhere in between there may be a healthy level of independence and mutual respect that our EKs can come to...if they choose to do so. Ultimately, it is still their choice...and God will not override that. He will change circumstances, and pursue lost sheep, but He won't force them to lay down their will, I believe. He will, though, give us grace to endure the separation, the pain, and the unfairness of it all...

Love and prayers and hugs to you, my sister...

I appreciate MamaDon's post concerning the process of detachment. I am right now implementing changes in my life to support my decision to detach from my ED and her family.

So I have removed the pictures of my ED from the cell display on my phone. I had a photo of her when she was 30 and we had just celebrated her birthday and were on the way to see her Grandmother to celebrate Mother's Day. A happy and fun picture of her...a happy memory. Well I took it off my cell phone so that when I use my phone the first thing I don't see anymore is HER PICTURE.

Then I have removed from my screen saver on my Nexus 7 and laptop computer pictures of my precious little grandchildren. So now when I open either one I do not see these little ones.

I have removed all pictures of my ED and her family...all wedding and holiday pictures from my abode. I will not be reminded of the happier times that are now gone.

I have cancelled my facebook account and it will be completely gone within 14 days per the information I received from facebook.

When I begin to think about any of them, I do say a prayer and focus on something else. For the longest time whenever I went into a store, I would see things and think of them...things I would normally buy for my daughter or Son In Law or the little children. Always thinking of them....Finally that has stopped. What a relief to realize that this is not part of my thinking processes anymore. It took forever to get over this practice.

I have looked at the Christmas presents I have already purchased for my grandchildren and will make a decision what to do with them. Beautiful things that are suitable for a little girl 18-36 months old and a little boy who is 2.5 years old. Even though my little granddaughter is 2 months old, I sent boxes and boxes of little outfits to my ES that covered her basic wardrobe for at least 18 months!

I have decided not to say anything negative to my parents about the latest ugliness from my ED that has brought me to this crossroad. Right now they have sent $$$ to my ED for the new baby and actually were sent lovely thank you notes. My parents are divorced but remain friends, even though they live in separate states. In any case, they are Christians and both 88 and have written to my ED about her actions and such...imploring her to acknowledge her Christian faith and her Godly obligations as a Christian. They right now feel she is moving toward some reconciliation.

Of course I know better. I will let them have the long distance relationship with her and hang onto this allusion. In fact my father gave my daughter away at her wedding. He is now struggling with cancer and we are all worried that we may lose him in the next few years. He has never seen their little boy who is now 2 years old and of course the new baby.

So I will not put forward any conversation about my ED and her family. If they come up I will be pleasant and nice. I will encourage my parents to have a relationship with them.

And I have started a new weight loss and exercise program which will help me feel better both emotionally and physically.

I am not narcisstic, but I will forcus on myself and my needs for the time being. Not to leave the rest of my family out, but do things for others that make me happy and fulfilled.

I will love myself and be kind to myself.

And I will continue to pray that the Lord's will be done. And sometimes when I feel like I really would like to disappear from it all, I will remind myself of the blessings I do have.

So well said by all of you. We did not cause this estrangement although all of us would admit to not being perfect. No one is including our ED. The real key is that we can not change our EC, only God can if that is His plan. Until then, we can love or EDs and ESs and pray for them and their families and that God will work in their hearts.

I have, also, found that remembering to count the blessings that I do have is important. Life is precious and life is short. Each day is a gift from God that we can never get back. He deserves our praise.

Oh wow you are an AMAZING group of mother/grandmothers!!

Thank you SO much for all the tips here - which took time to write down and not nice to return to - so I appreciate them all the more.

Indeed, they are a veritable diamond mine of useful info. I am definitely encouraged to do these things. Time as you all say, to concentrate a little on us - mums do tend to neglect themselves at the expense of their great love for their children...now to develop new interests. I will start with joining others for a hike on Saturday and have already joined the local church (I had been neglecting going to fellowship).

I took the childhood paintings, reports and school/ballet certificates and put them into a box which I dropped off at my ED's attorney (I am not allowed to speak to her, email or phone her). Inside, I sneaked a poem I had written about her and my love for her. I also sneaked in some sweaters I had knitted in intricate Fair Isle for my granddaughter who turned six recently. I haven't had them back, which I am glad about even though I won't have any feedback and don't expect any at this time. I have kept the love letters to Mom which she wrote in her childhood, but packed away in a memory box. At your encouragement and because the sight of them hurts me - I will remove the photographs from my walls.

It is rather like a death isn't it? I like the tips on prayer as well. I have to hand this all over to God and then stop pleading with him as I have been doing.

I must admit that because of the anger against my ED for doing this - disowning me so cruelly - I miss my granddaughter more. I am still busy reading "Let it Go" by TD Jakes and hope this will help.

How can I ever thank you for all the encouragement and help? Thank You - those two words are just never enough - but thank you.

I wish we could all meet. Can you imagine?!

God bless you as you move forward. Always remember that God is in control and will always do what is right (with the estrangement) and best for us even though we may not see it at this time. He sees the whole picture.

It would be a blessing to me all of you wonderful people.

What a great discussion, and I agree, so many useful tips and suggestions for moving on. I also took down all the photos and put them in a box in the garage. I actually threw away some of my ES and DIL. I don't grieve for my son so much, it is the grandchildren. I don't know them anymore after 3 years. In fact, I really don't even care to be around my son at all, I am done with him and hope I can some forgive him for his betrayal, or his weakness, whatever it is. I am sorry to say that I feel somewhat disgusted at the thought of him and his wife. He has cut off his brother, my younger son, and also my brother, and I watch them grieve as well.
It ravages people like the sickness that it is. No way not to feel the pain sometimes. I guess as time has gone on, my pain has lessened, thankfully, but always there.

My ES also cut off his brother when his brother stood up for me. My DH didn't want to be involved so didn't say anything. All of the estrangement was my DIL insisting my son estrange from me and his brother. Much to their surprise, the rest of the family (my sister/husband/ kids) all cut off my ES until he wanted me and my other son back in his life. It has been 6 years now.

I went through all the feelings you and others have - grief, guilt, anger, hate, un-forgiveness, etc. But as time goes on and now that I have truly turned my ES over to God, I have taken on the detachment. In fact, just recently I put up my son's graduation picture next to his brother's picture so I see it every day and I have no feelings when I look at it. Partly because it was taken 12 years ago and his looks have changed and now I think I am finding healing for my heart.

I am so grateful to find this forum. I have looked for a local support group, but none were concerning estrangement from adult children, and when I spoke to others about the issue at a Celebrate Recovery meeting or Emotions Anonymous they didn't seem to really empathize if they were not going through it. To lose contact with your child because the child choses to leave you behind is the deepest pain that I have everry experienced.
My son started this journey away from us when he was 15 and took up with an emotionally troubled girl at church. I thought I was "safe in the water" at church, but when she became pregnant at 18, her parents decided to leave my husband and me out completely even though we tried and tried to be supportive. They wouldn't even talk to the pastor, and finally left the church. My son saw the baby for a while and was planning to marry the girl, but she finally broke off the relationship and took the baby away. She never put my son on the birth certificate, and no matter how much I encouraged him to get a DNA test and get visitation, he just decided to let my grandson go. And so I lost complete contact with the little boy. In the process of all of this, my son started a relationship with another girl, but I feel like he is doing the same thing he did with the first girl keeping her away from us and "deleting' us from his life. He refuses to answer any e-mails, texts, or phone calls, and when I leave cookies at his door, he doesn't even thank me. It seems like he has detached from his parents the same way he detached from his child. And I don't know how to respond any more.
I found this forum investigating the thought that my son might be a high functioning sociopath, someone who doesn't feel the pain of anyone. He lies, he hides, he pretends, and knowing the pain that I feel about his ignoring his parents, he remains silent. I am a very emotional person, and it is tearing me apart.
It's good to know that others are in this walk also, and I am not the only one, because I feel like I must have done something terrible for him to despise me so much. I cry at the drop of a hat and every morning I wake up with a sense of terrible sorrow in facing another day. I don't expect him to be overly affectionate. He's just not like that, but just a text once in a while, something....but I get nothing as if I am nothing.
A friend whose daughter is close to her said to me tonight, "At least you don't have to wait up for him any more." I told her, "I wait up for him every night, he just never comes home."

Tikva.... I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. Do you have a relationship with his present girlfriend? Maybe you could invite her to lunch and ask her opinion as to why your son is ignoring you and your husband.

But I would be very careful to not sound needy or too emotional. Just show a caring attitude and let her know how much you would like to see both of them once in awhile.

My mistake was allowing my now DIL to get me into arguments with her. I should have just walked away. I think if you have the girlfriend on your side, your son will be back. Just my thoughts.

Yes this is the strange thing Norske - if we ignore our ECs - there is a chance of them returning to their senses - but if we appear needy as you say, they just back off more.

Norske, I walked away from my son and DIL and it didn't do me much good. Sometimes, no matter what you do it doesn't work. I wouldn't want to see his photo everyday, although I cannot help looking at Facebook to see the grandchildren. I guess I will quit that if it gets too painfu.

JB

Tikva, I am also so sorry for the pain you are going through, but I'm glad you found us. We have all gone through the feelings of grief and despair...I am sure we can all relate to not wanting to get up in the morning to face another day of it. I know I can, anyway. It gets a little easier over time, I think.

I assure you that you didn't do anything terrible to deserve this...Satan loves to destroy what God has created, and a solid Christian family is a threat to him. Unfortunately, there's a lot of fallout we all have to cope with, but the guilt only adds to our pain. It helped me to realize that there is no such thing as a perfect parent, because we are all imperfect human beings. I had to ask God to forgive me for anything I did wrong, and then move on...and realize that God loves my ED even more than I do, and that He has everything under His sovereign control. He will not take away her free will, but He will give me grace to endure this great trial.

I read on another board here that, indeed, if you are able to have contact with your EC at all, they respond much better when we have control over our emotions...if they see us as weak and needy, it will cause them to lose even more respect for us. We must act strong, confident, and assured, even if we aren't.

Norske, I was able to put up a picture of my ED with us at the wedding...I don't look at it every day, but do once in a while. Still can't put up photos of my grandbabies, though :-( I ended up sending her an email this morning with some wedding photos...we'll see how that goes.

Love and hugs to you all...

I have asked them both to numerous dinners. She seems friendly and responds when I send her gluten free brownies. But I sense that my son is trying to make sure she doesn't know too much about what has happened in the past. She says certain topics are "taboo." And since we know all about it, he wants to make sure we are cast as the crazy ones.
I am kind of playing up to her and being very friendly to her, sending her little pictures of animals on FB because she likes animals.
I agree that she is probably key to the situation in the future, but she is after all a nineteen year old girl in love and there is no one who wants to stay in denial more than a nineteen year old girl in love. And of course she is not interested in maintaining a relationship with the other woman's baby. I understand that.
I will not be getting into any arguments with her, about anything. I spent six years in an adversarial relationship with my son's first girlfriend and it was awful.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their posts and taking the time to write the things you have. All of these situations seem so similar and the feelings of the parents just seem to run in the same river of love and pain.
I don't understand how our children some of whom have children of their own can just sever their ties to the people who brought them up. I don't see that these children were abused or treated harshly. In my own situation it is as if my son hates me for being the one to tell him not to lie, not to steal, and not to have sex with his girlfriend. I have been so angry with the people that encouraged my son to be distant from me, but now I am realizing that he is the one who must have told them lies that made them think I was too awful a parent to be worthwhile.
I said before that I am wondering if my son is a high functioning sociopath. There is a spectrum of this disorder just as there is a spectrum of autism. On the low end a person kills people without feeling, on the other end the person functions quite well in society and doesn't appear to have any problems, but they just don't feel compassion or empathy for anyone else. I wonder if my son was drawn to other people like him that could disgard me like an old shoe. I wonder if it really is something physically wrong with his amygdala in his brain. My relationship with my son hasn't been peaceful since he was a little boy. He actually got kicked out of a Christian school when he was seven because he wouldn't cooperate. I homeschooled him from third grade until 10th grade when his lying and cheating and refusal to do his work forced me to put him in public school. I was so grateful when he finally graduated.
He was so talented and intelligent and frankly I think that is part of the problem. He really is more interesting and clever than me. He has become arrogant and narcissistic to a great degree. But it works for him because he is successful and gets what he wants. He's 21 years old and is a manager in a wedding catering business and has already taken his girlfriend to the Bahamas on a cruise! I would never have been able to do those things when I was his age.
But I have to admit that when I was 21 I left home and moved 3000 miles away to the other side of the country because I wanted my own life. I didn't cut off my parents, but I didn't stay around them either. Now I wonder if I'm being "disciplined in kind" for the way I treated my parents. I came back when I had a child 15 years later, but had really messed up my life.
I'm just so tired of the dysfunction and lack of love that everyone has displayed all while functioning in the church. I'm just so tired.