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Romans

IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski

The first order of transformation must be understanding the born again experience. Your spirit is the substance within you by which are able to either know God or not know God. Jesus said in John chapter 3 that we cannot even see the kingdom of God  unless we are born again. So let's explore Romans 7 and Paul's writings. When Paul said "when I do what I don't want to, and what I want to do that I do not, then it is no longer I that do it but sin that is within me"  What did he mean by this? To answer this we must begin by knowing that he was talking about his past experience as a Pharisee. Think about it this way, Saul became Paul after receiving Christ. In Romans 7 he is explaining his predicament as Saul, the Pharisee. He knew the scriptures very well and wanted to serve God. He realized that the law did not change the nature of man, but rather exposed the nature of man, and the nature in Saul was sin. God, through the law revealed the sinful nature in man. So again Romans 7 Paul is talking about how he could not escape the law of sin and death working in him prior to being born again. In verse 24 Paul says "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" And in verse 25 he answers his own question saying " I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Taking us into Romans 8 and victory over the nature of sin!


 


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh(sinful nature), but after the spirit(born again or divine nature). 2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. NOTE: There is only one word for spirit in the original language. The word spirit in these verses is talking about the spirit within man not the Holy Spirit so I changed to little "s" as opposed to the capital "S".


 


I HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN!!!! Jesus has quickened my spirit out of sin, into life, making me the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, allowing my spirit to now fellowship with God, who is spirit by the which my mind can be renewed and be transformed into the image of Christ  because now I can know the things of God. Sin no longer has dominion over me. I HAVE BECOME A SON OF GOD! I became a son of God full of the life of Christ on the day I was born again. It is not something I am waiting to receive, I have received it already. It is that life that allows me to fellowship with Christ or to truly know Christ, not just know of Him. If you believe you are a sinner waiting for Grace to change you on the day you leave this Earth you will have missed your opportunity to know God, or rather be known of God.

LavenderC
LavenderC
John 14:25-26 NIV

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

It is the Holy Spirit who guides us in our fellowship with God.

1 Peter 1:23 NKJV

"having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever"

A born again person (Christian) follows the Bible's instructions.
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
Yes, Yes, the Holy Spirit comes once you have been born again. Being born again qualifies you to receive the Holy Spirit. So there had to be a change that took place in us first. The bible says that the Holy Spirit will be in you, He cannot reside within a sinner. Likewise the Spirit(Holy Spirit) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. So After we have been born again, and our human spirit has been quickened from death to life, the Holy Spirit can come dwell on the inside of us and guide us. Notice it says likewise and also, so what was already there? The incorruptible seed(your born again spirit) of Christ that we received by faith in Christ that changed me from a sinner to a son.
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word is not a book it is a person, Jesus Christ. So now would it blow your mind to know that if you have received the incorruptible seed, and you have, that the Word abides within you, not just on the pages of a book. And the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to reveal the Word of God that abides in you. We often times strive to attain that which we already possess because our mind has a remembrance of who we used to be before being born again, not who Christ has made us to be as sons and daughters of God.
LavenderC
LavenderC
From the article below

"Being "born of the Spirit" is also referred to as the "new birth." The new birth is the work of the Holy Spirit, who places the believer in a right relationship with God. It is a work of God, not of man:"

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_485.cfm
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
Yes, it is His work done in us.
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
So let's look at our example, Jesus. He was born into this world full of life, that life was the light of man. This is a reference to His Divine Nature, The spirit within Him was life. This was why he was able to walk without sin. Now according to the bible He did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until He was baptized by John in the river Jordan. He was not doing miracles before this time, but He was without sin. In 2 Peter 1:4 it’s written: “… by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” You have indeed been made of incorruptible seed when you were born again. The spirit of Christ is not the Holy Spirit. The spirit of Christ is the divine nature of which you are a partaker. The Holy Spirit also helps us revealing the divine nature in us that we received when we believed the testimony of God concerning His Son. Not taking any glory away from Christ, just saying that as He is so are we, because we were made to be sons and daughters of God.
Group FounderMarleneJ
MarleneJ
I believe Scripture teaches that God places the Holy Spirit within us as he saves us. Without the Holy Spirit, we are not saved.

It is not something we seek later. That would make no sense. How could we be born again without the Holy Spirit within us? I know that was my experience, too! From the moment God spoke to me, he placed his Spirit within me, to help me walk and follow Christ. We simply are not changed or born again without the Holy Spirit.

I know when I first started in Arminian churches, there was all this talk of getting the Holy Spirit at some later time! I was afraid to say anything, 40 years ago, but I knew something was wrong

I was a dead person. I had no way to make myself alive. But God made me alive in Christ, from the first moment I was saved. When I got home that night, I stared devouring my Bible. All the question marks and circles were answered, because I realized The Bible was all about Jesus!

"So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" 2 Cor. 5:17

"Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is your life because of righteousness. 11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you." Romans 8:8-11o

This passage clearly states that anyone who does not have the Spirit of God does not have Christ.

I know theologians argue about this. But Scripture is clear we are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved, or we are not saved!
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
So this is a sincere question. In verse 9 Paul refers to the Spirit of God, and then the Spirit of Christ, why the differentiation? Then in verse 10 if Christ is in you and then transitions again in verse 11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you. I see two spiritual aspects in these verses. To your point Marlene anyone who does not have the Spirit of God does not have the Spirit of Christ. Does this passage not say if Christ be in you your body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is your life because of righteousness, Which in turn, due to righteousness (spirit of Christ)creates a dwelling place to receive the Spirit of God which makes your mortal bodies alive? Is not the end of verse 11 when he says through His Spirit who lives in you not referring to the spirit of Christ or righteousness?
LavenderC
LavenderC
IrishDrewski - To add to the headaches of "Spirit," there is also "Spirit of his Son."

Galatians 4:6, NIV: "Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, 'Abba, Father.'"

Yesterday I search online about "Spirit of God," "Spirit of Christ," and "Spirit of his (His) Son." The person wrote

"In Galatians 4:6 it reads,

Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out "Abba, Father." (NIV)

Is Paul saying the Son of the Trinity, Jesus Christ, indwells in the believer as a Spirit next to the Holy Spirit? Or, is Paul saying the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Son?"

He concluded

"According to the new testament witness, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same Spirit (Romans 8:9)"

"It is through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, that the Father and the Son are said to "make [their] home" in the believer (John 14:23).

So, yes, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Son but also the Spirit of the Father. The Holy Spirit is therefore said to proceed from both the Father and the Son (John 14:26; 15:26)."

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/25086/the-spirit-of-his-son



I don't know whether you agree with him or not. .
IrishDrewski
IrishDrewski
I still see it the same way. Jesus said in John 15:26 that he would send (upon His ascension) the Comforter which proceeds from the Father. However the main point of my original post is the understanding that we are as Christ having been freed from the dominion of sin, made righteous and received the Holy Spirit. For a student is never greater than his master, but can be as his master. How will I allow myself to be transformed into Christ's image if I don't believe it is possible? John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

The more we behold Him not just as the man in a book, but in His glory the more we realize we are like Him because we have been given His divine nature. We are His offspring, all life, all creation sprang forth from Him and that same life or spirit is now in us. The creative force that allowed Jesus to demonstrate the love of the Father has been given to us. What are the possibilities? All things!
RJW
RJW
Thank you for sharing. My apologies for the delay in this reply, but interesting questions in the Replies, besides the main Post.

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:14‭-‬25 NKJV

When we read the whole Passage, we get a better understanding. The Word Speaks to Understanding on many levels, as It is God Speaking to us, personally. That Passage speaks of addictions and one could include Mental Illness. The things we do, but don't want to do. Pleasure in sin is wanting to do it. The Lord can cure addictions, but often He lets us endure them, so we know we need Him, for our betterment. This is also why we endure. To Know that we Need Him. Addictions have been even called Illnesses by many Doctors, thus a Mental Illness, as well. Are the Addictions or Mental Illnesses themselves the sin? No, but it can lead us to sinning, and some sinning that isn't unlawful. That is also why The Lord warns us to not start things which can be addictive. A perfect Christian in every way has a bad back injury. They start pain medication, that leads to stronger pain medication, then to illegal drugs for pain. Illegal drugs, that they will do anything to get their hands on, including breaking the law or non lawbreaking sins. O wretched one! Who will deliver even them? Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ. We can serve The Lord in our minds, denying our bodies need to sin. I pray that made sense. Thank you. God Bless.
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