what about the other woman. did you ask yourself how this is affecting her? clearly she knows you are a man who is okay with deceit, she obviously is okay with deceit as well, that does not change the fact that somehow you lead her on as well. you need to understand that it is NEVER ok to play with a human being s feelings. not your wife s feeling, not the other woman s feelings. it is true other women know what they are doing, that does not excuse your overall behavior with women in general.

let it stand clear that in no way would i, as a BS condone what the OW is doing. i am definitely the kind of person who thinks OW need to do a lot of growing as people to be able to appreciate the damage they are causing on innocent people. I do however recognize other women are human beings with feelings and equal need for love and understanding. they are women who each has their own sad or perhaps not sad story. what we all should understand as human beings, is that we all need love and acceptance. how you go about getting that is the issue.

I sort of disagree with the idea that ambivalence by the CS means the CS will not ever want the marriage or BS wholeheartedly. I think it's a pretty typical psychological response tied to grief and shame and the justifications about our marriage that we used to convince ourselves during the affair. I think that is why letting the AP go completely often gives a different perspective on the marriage. The shame of knowing you are in contact with the AP is an interference.

Chipmonk4, my wife is fully aware of what I feel and how I feel. The exAP is fully aware as well, we were totally open with each other. Ironically she recently divorced her husband due to infidelity and other issues.

My affair was an exit affair and during that time I wanted out. If my AP told me to work on my marriage first, I would be divorced right now because I didn't want to work on it. I also didn't see what part I played to make my marriage the way it is. My wife and I dated for nine months before marriage in which it was totally based on infatuation. Then I went back to school full time studying at least until bedtime every night and 12hrs on Saturday and Sunday. Then after graduating we started a family that I wasn't ready for. So, we didn't lay any foundation, we well I for that matter didn't give time for the infatuation to grow into something else.

After going NC I noticed my faults and what I contributed. Now I'm just trying to get past the fog and do the right thing.

Chillwill, thanks for the background. whatever it is you decide, figure out what you want and stick to it. it is not ok to string along your innocent spouse, nor is it ok to lead your ex AP on. you seem to have decided you want no contact with AP. stick to that. if you actually want your marriage to work, do what you must do to make it work. no contact is essential.

The BS insight is valuable. We CS are, by nature, selfish assholes. Sometimes we need some tough love. If the BS's who comment here are just trying to help.

^ These are all things I tell myself when my blood stars to boil on this board when I feel annoyed by posters who just don't 'get it'. Our feelings are hurtful to others, yes, but we *know* that already. We're not idiots. At the same time, only we know how we feel.

Contrary to popular belief, affairs are not a walk in the park. The cause immeasurable pain for the CS too. These situations suck for everyone involved. Which brings me to my next point:

Your kids need you to work on you. You are a crap father if your parenting through a distorted affair chemical-induced lens. They deserve sanity in their parents. If you pour your "purpose" into them immediately, without doing the individual work, you'll risk enmeshment - when you F up your kids because you inappropriately rely on them as children, role reversal, if you will.

Your doing the right thing. Make some friends on here and share our journaling... It helped me alot. It took over a year and a critical relapse, but I'm in a pretty good headspace now. Always room for growth though!

Apologies for all my typos - I hate typing on the phone!

I love you PD, but I'm not a selfish asshole.

My actions at the time may have been selfish, but in general I am without a doubt not a selfish asshole.

I've worked really really damn hard at become affair-free and re focusing.

shoretimenow, I feel the same way. I am a generous people pleaser, not at all selfish. My affair was probably the only selfish thing I ever did in my life. If I had valued myself a bit more, perhaps I would have been upfront about my relationship needs and had a better relationship with my husband all these years instead of disconnecting and leaving myself vulnerable to someone else's attention.

Ladies, I'm far from a selfish asshole too (I believe, anyway). I hope you picked up on my sarcasm..

It would be ridiculous to generalize people in such a way; yet BSs do. Ones who don't even know us personally. Who have no idea how much I sacrifice for my family; that I volunteer with the homeless regularly and spend countless hours talking to those in need and doing whatever I can to help a troubled soul.

But I let someone that wasn't on that certified piece of paper into my heart (and vaguna); so obviously nothing else matters.

Yes. I was definitely being sarcastic. :)

Ugh. I give up on responding on my phone. *vagina* hahaha!!

Actually, I think much of the time, cheaters are really people who are avoidant of hurting people's feelings, prone to fantasy, and path-of-least resistance people. I often feel like we know our marriages are broken, but we don't want to go through the fights and discomfort of working through those issues with our spouses. So, it's easier to let the spouse feel good, loved, supported, and meanwhile foster the warm fuzzy feelings with someone who doesn't see our flaws. And then if we fall in love with the AP, now we don't want to hurt either person and are reassuring to whichever partner we're with at any given time. We don't want to hurt anyone and end up hurting everyone. That doesn't sound like a deeply selfish person to me.

Whats crazy is that my AP was so open with me. She share everything with me. I know that you shouldn't judge but because of her past that is one of the reasons I didn't leave. But at the same time I love her more for her honesty.