Cheaters Anonymous Community Group
This is a support group for cheating spouses looking for understanding and strength. Betrayed spouses are welcome to post ONLY if they can do so in a supportive manner (no bashing...these posts will be deleted), and please do not comment on 'Cheaters Only' posts.
Hi, I am new here. I am going to apologize now for the long post. I will try to keep it as short as possible.
A little background-unfortunately I have cheated on my H and he had cheated on me years previously. I had never cheated until I found out about his infidelity. It set me on a path of complete self destruction and cheating with 4 men over a 15 year period (one was a one time thing with a guy I knew from HS and weirdly enough didnt even like). There were years in between where I was good and had sought counseling each time. My husband found out about each affair. I tried to focus on my marriage but would find myself back to looking for attention and validation and for some reason getting it from my husband was not enough.
My husband was very remorseful and has been a very loving husband since. I make no excuses for my cheating and know I made these decisions consciously.
6 1/2 years ago I broke off my last A and went into counseling for over a year. This was by far the best counseling I ever received as she delved into the why and not the actual affairs. She told me affairs are actually smoke screens and not the issue to deal withbut the reason behind it (I was diagnosed with abandonment issues from being raised by a narcissistic mother).
The A left me with no self respect or dignity. I do not blame the AP as I knowingly entered into this and saw red flags immediately (he was single and I was his go to when he had nothing better to do). I could have gotten out sooner but chose to stay because of my addiction to the preceived feelings and highs I felt.
After counseling I was doing very well and have not even so much as looked at another man nor felt any need to get attention.
Out of the blue I notice this much younger guy looking at me. I didn't think much of it and ignored it because he is so much younger that I figured it was nothing much and didn't really care... but then I noticed him doing it more and when Id walk by I could see him looking at me out of the corner of his eye which I thought was kind of funny actually.
I have seen him around but never really spoke to him. Of course my curiosity got the best of me and one time I was speaking to a child I know who was right next to him and I make a comment about the weather to him. First time we've really spoken. He lights up with this huge smile and responds. After this we start to have small conversations but with others around. Nothing deeply personal at all. We get into teasing each other and I can feel he likes me but he is also very shy. Sometimes he will completely ignore me and if I approach to say hi, he starts talking to me right away. He looks at me when he thinks I do not see him looking then looks away when I catch him although a few times we hold the gaze and smile.
He has made some comments to me that lead me to believe he likes me but then it seems as if he is possibly naive and only joking. He has not made any sexual references but told me once I should go out with he and his friend (I thought he was kidding). He's asked me if I needed a ride home once when he knew I was going out but again he doesnt seem to be saying it in seriousness. My husband has been "around" during these times and he knows him but not well.
Last time I saw him, he made a point to come over and ask me a silly question he didnt need to ask. I asked him for his FB a week before this and we are now friends on FB. A few weeks ago, after we became friends on FB, I sent something to him and made a funny remark that was slightly sexual but not about me and he sent something back slightly sexual too (the remarks were about the person in the picture-a gay guy). I am now away and we correspond via messenger but he only writes about once a week (hes never written more than this and it confuses me) and it is very basic stuff, nothing below the surface. At Christmas and NY we hugged and he gave me a very long hug with a kiss on the cheek. Also, I asked if we could message in secret messenger and told him others have access to my computer and if he felt uncomfortable Id understand and he seems ok with it.
Im not sure what he wants, if anything. He seemed to go out of his way to talk and flirt but no mention of anything even slightly provacative or sexual yet he was the one making these kind of forward and flirty comments. I have no intention of doing anything more as I like things the way they are but I guess I am really confused on his actions. If he sees me in person he will come right up to me and I have no doubt he will hug me when I get back....but online is a very different story. Again, he is very shy, acts kind of nervous around me and although I see he goes on FB alot, he barely posts and will once in awhile "like" other's posts but never mine. I recently posted a meme on his FB and he wrote a funny note underneath so I know he liked that I did that. I am not sure if he is scared to "like" my posts because he is nervous or afraid of rejection because he probably doesnt know what I am thinking either? Am I just a joke to him, something to fill his time when he has nothing better to do? Looking at his FB, I think he has only had one girlfriend and it didnt last very long. I think he is very green in the dating/love department and as a side I found out thorugh a girl who knows him that his mother left when he was younger and now lives out of state with a whole new family. Wondering if that could be playing some weird part and he has "mommy' issues and here I am the older woman? Thinking we both could have abandonment issues and somehow subconsciously feel that? I really dont know and am perplexed as to what "this" even is. I could come out and talk to him as I feel comfortable with him but weve never discussed anything and I too have a fear of rejection (not as a lover but that he'd freak and not want to be friendly because I misunderstood his actions).
I can tell you 100% unequivically I will not cheat. I have been there and done that, had the D day and know the pain and suffering it causes all involved. I am not kidding myself and have enough counseling under my belt to know where to draw the line. I think my problem is I do not ever want to be a joke or a time filler for anyone ever again. I am happy to be friends and have fun joking. I guess I am looking for an answer as to what you think this is for him? A friend sees how he is with me and thinks he really likes me but is too shy and scared to say naything because I am married. Thoughts?
Thank you for your reply. It is nice to come to a place where you are not ripped apart for sharing your feelings and issues. I really appreciate your feedback and know you are right. I need to hear this.
After posting, I started reading some of the threads on here and found them to be extremely helpful as well as informative. Reading the thread "Why Did You Cheat?" was especially helpful as each answer fit me to a T (no surprise). I have felt for a while I could be a "love addict" and discussed this with my counselor I saw for over a year after breaking up with my last AP. Like many, I was in a bad state, almost to the point of suicide because I felt this cycle of cheating would never end. People who do not cheat do not understand how it is, how it is like a drug and that we need counseling and help just like any other addict (at least I did). They think it is so easy to just walk away and that the decision to cheat is one we take lightly and have no remorse or guilt. SO untrue! I prayed every single night for God to help me stop and give me a way out and thankfully he did. I have been praying a lot about this as well because of course I want to do the right thing.
I started fantasizing about boys from a very early age, probably 2nd or 3rd grade where I started having crushes on boys. No doubt this behavior came from my home life and the fantasizing had continued from there until I got help and finally found an excellent counselor (sad the others I had previously did not help me this much). Although I fantasized about other men in the early years of my marriage (as it was not the greatest), I never crossed a line and cheated. Somehow after finding out my husband had it completely devastated me (another person showing me I didn't matter). In the end, I believe this is what it really boils down to-I keep trying to rewrite history from my childhood to prove I matter. We know that strong pull of fantasy, feeling wanted, feeling special, feeling like we MATTER is just that, a big fat fantasy. So we want to keep pursuing it till we can finally say "aha, see I really do matter"........ except that never happens.
But, there is good news. I am self aware and my husband knows about this guy.
He saw a message from him, innocuous as they are, and asked me about it. I had not seen it yet and my husband and I both have each other's passwords to our emails and FB and he saw it when on my FB page. I did talk to him a bit about this guy and told him I thought he may have a crush on me but wasn't sure and that we joke with each other and are friendly. He knows I am friendly with many people we see together on a daily basis so it doesn't surprise him. The guy and I talk in our conversations while my husband is in the vicinity so in some ways it is not a secret but other ways it is. I will not see him for 5 more weeks. I do believe I can pull back, keep my conversations with him friendly, and since our conversations online are innocent can move them to the normal messenger if he does write me again (doubting this since he leaves for another country soon for a month and barely writes anyway). I guess I need to do some work on myself and see what is going on and why this has creeped up again. It is so odd because I have been fine and not even looked at other men or cared one bit. I admit it came out of the blue and pretty much shocked me that I even cared. Honestly, the guy is a very sweet guy and I do not think he would ever "pursue" me. I do think, most likely, he may have a small crush on me but genuinely just likes me and probably senses something in me like I did him, kindred spirit maybe? Crappy mothers? lol
Thanks for the needed sound advice. I needed to hear it. For the record, only a couple friends know my life story and I do not feel they would want to hear it. I did talk to one friend here and she seemed very uninterested even though I have listened to her for hours and days on end when she had issues with her former BF. I find the people I could talk to are very self absorbed and just don't want to hear it, hence my coming here.
I just had a very long talk with my H so am feeling like I am going back to my good place. :) I really like this forum though as the people seem very kind and understanding so I may just stick around.
I had a man I had been hugely hung up on, obsessed with and had kissed but not done anything else with and we ended up being able to be just friends. Eventually he changed quite a bit and I ended up unfriending him. I think I am able to do it because if they can be my friend, that almost means more to me and I end up caring for them but as a friend not a lover. I know it sounds weird but I have not kissed him nor had any type of personal deep talk or relationship so I know how to stop the fantasy (easier than it used to be) and move over to a simple friendship. Not even sure that will happen as he is so much younger. Again, I do wonder if he has "mommy" issues and looking for the replacement. He seems very innocent, a bit naive and very green. I know I need to back off and stop the addictive obsessive behavior and that 5 weeks give some plenty of time to do so.
May I ask, what do you think led to you having affairs? Are you happy with your marriage? The threat of losing a spouse can bring things home but I caution you, it does not fix the issues you may have had that cold have led you to the affair. The issues that led you needs to be addressed, not so much the affair itself, IMHO
It sounds like you've had some great counseling. You're right that those who can't relate don't understand that this is a daily struggle for us. Unless we lock ourselves in a closet and never venture into public, the drug is ALWAYS around.
Good luck to you. Make some friends here and journal; it's been helpful to many of us.
Prettyanddumb-thanks for the support. People are very nice here. It is nice to see.
Counseling helped a lot for sure and I have to say I have not been tempted or had any issue till this.
I am very lucky that I have been away because I think that helped.
What do you do to help keep things in perspective and in check? Have you had counseling yourself to help?
My H saw a message in normal messenger and has seen us talk so knows we are friendly. I fully admit to wanting this to be more flirty and hoping it would progress but thinking it would not go past talk. I realize I was "flirting" with disaster and fooling myself. I am pulling back and keeping myself in check. I will not pursue any chat with him nor try to engage in any conversation while we are both away. The conversations are so boring I can have us move them to normal chat once we are back if he does contact but will deal with it when we are both back. He will wonder why I am going back and forth. We only flirted a bit so no talk at all about sex, bodies, looks, feelings, family, none of that at all. More friendly flirting and teasing and that was it.
Thankfully coming here and reading has given me the slap in the face of reality I needed. Because I have the counseling under my belt, and because I have not gotten very close I have no trouble backing off and staying friendly without the lusting. I know it was a feeling I was starting to chase anyway and I wasn't getting much in return because he is a sweet and decent guy and I do not believe he would be with a married woman (and I am not wondering either!). If this were 6 years ago I would probably not be able to stop and would pursue till I had him in a romantic relationship (dont believe in reality that would happen-just my fantasy). I have my faith which is strong and helps me a great deal.
Sarbear I knew what I was doing and probably fooling myself at the time. Getting away helped some but coming here, praying, reading many posts and having long talks with my H gave me more clarity to stop the nonsense and that is exactly what it is.
As I said above, I have been able to move feelings to friendship before as long as there was not intense feelings or more time invested
I think once I get back enough time will have passed that we will both be able to be friendly but keep it in check. I had not gotten to the point of no return and very glad I am stopping those behaviors now. The fact that he was flirting but not trying to pursue me or take it to a next step also helped. I have to say I respect him so much more because of that. I think he's just a really sweet guy with a crush on an older woman and that is all it is to him.
Are you still heavily involved in the A or are you trying to break free from it?
When I had my A that ended in 2010 it was very difficult for me to end it but because he was being such a jerk and I was feeling used I knew I had to make the decision (not to mention I felt HORRIBLE lying and cheating). This A went on for over a year and a half and when I ended it I still went back to talking to him for over a year but never saw him again. It was a difficult time and I had a lot of trouble exiting completely from his life. I was finally able to do it and once completely out could see clearly what exactly it was. While I had all the emotions, I realized after I was only a booty call to him. I craved more but he refused to give it. No long talks, no dinners, no cuddling. I was so addicted. As I said, I was in counseling over it and it helped me so much to understand myself, why I allowed it and why I craved the FEELINGS. Most of us it ends up being something from our childhood. I encourage you to find out the why and try to back off. Its not fun and yeah it feels like withdrawal from a drug (not that I know what that feels like but I can imagine!). I never, ever want to feel like that again or allow myself to be used like that. Are you married?
I can tell you it never ends well. Ever.
Welcome, this site (along with IC) has been invaluable to me to help me sort out the nuances of my behavior, make change, and continue to move forward and navigate solutions.
I have to agree with Passenger. Your post screams that for someone 'done with cheating' 'done with affairs, hate the lying, etc' 'know the devastation of dDay' you are spending way too much time fixating on what this guy thinks of you. Your actions don't meet your words. Hey, I get it, I know its hard. I spent my first 15 months here preaching why affairs are bad and I was in one all along. In reality, if you are spending so much time thinking about what he thinks....you are taking away from your marriage. You replied to Passenger that you wanted this to get flirty.....so someone completely done with affairs that's like waving a red flag that there are still issues within your marriage or within yourself that haven't been addressed or need to be addressed again.
There are small issues but it would be too long a conversation for here and I dont know if I could even put it into words. I am not unhappy and I think I have a good marriage. My husband is a sweet and kind man. Maybe in some way I am just not fulfilled but that is not on him, that is on me. I have to figure out how I can get that from something good (like exercise, hobbies, etc). I don't have the answers right now and Im not sure how to find them. I have daydreamed and fantasized about boys/men since a very young age and it stopped after counseling. All of a sudden it is back. I do not know why. Boredom? BTW it isn't fixating it is outright obsessing. Ive done that all my life too :(
Thanks for the words of support and reaching out. I hate being here (not here but in this spot so to speak). I thought I was "cured."
We all have choices, right?
I haven't figured it out if its just the way I am now wired.....like an former alcoholic cannot have another drink, some can't even be around alcohol OR if what I thought was fixed is not.
For me, I do not need counseling again......incidentally, I cheated my way through that too some......but its always an option. Maybe it is the way I'm wired now.....like a scape route....I remember my IC once said that people in A-free marriages, when there is stress or boredom or conflict, they discuss it, or they handle it proactively, they don't run to 'someone else'. I remember her saying that and envying those people that she was speaking of.
We can only do this one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time.