It took me awhile to come back to this thread because you've given me a lot to think about.

First I'll just say, I'm quite aware my current partner is not normal. Beats me where he gets his capacity from. Even as often as we have sex now, I get the feeling he could wear out three of me. I don't understand it but I'm appreciating it while it lasts.

Cole, I'll address a couple of things you said. And thanks again for your candor.

"if you head back to the bedroom because you want some sex, and you catch him cleaning up, it is highly unlikely he'll be able to have sex with you right then"
I haven't been confronted with this situation, as he does not masturbate when I'm around. I don't think it's happened with past partners, either.

"our marriage suffered because I experienced most of my sex life without her"
I can see that in your case it represented a deficit in your intimate life together. The amount of time you spent gratifying yourself was the same amount of time you weren't having sex with her. I don't know if that's always the case. I've read various studies, surveys etc, some of which suggested that people actually masturbate more when they have access to regular sex.

"I find sex with Gabi generally more satisfying when I've not watched any for a while" sounds perfectly valid. I haven't asked any of my partners if they find this to be true in their sex lives, although I haven't noticed that this is the case with me.

"Porn shoots the dopamine spike up much higher than sex without it. Consequently, upon having consumed some porn for around two-three days, if I try to go without it, it is like hardly any feeling can be generated." --I've heard conflicting accounts regarding porn desensitizing people to real-life sex. Again this may be down to variation between individuals.

There seem to be a lot of parallels between porn use and drug or other addictions, as you described there is a direct chemical correlation. I suppose I haven't encountered a bona fide porn addict. To clarify: I've met a sex addict who also used porn constantly but it didn't seem to diminish his desire to have sex with real people. To him it was all part of the same thing. He just needed gratification all the time -- and no, for the record I couldn't handle someone like that.

It might also have to do with a person's background. I have mostly dated people who grew up with unrestricted access to internet porn. None of them seemed addicted to it, it was just the standard way they got off with themselves, having begun at an early age. I have had a couple of partners watch porn while I was performing sexual acts on them and it never occurred to me to be jealous. Not sure why, maybe I should be, but it wasn't the norm. Other times people have filmed me while I was doing that, and I feel like I got a charge out of the fact that they were going to replay it for gratification later. For that matter, I know people replay actual sex experiences they've had when they masturbate which I think is probably pretty healthy.

It's interesting to hear others' perspective on it because I guess I'm not the most sexually jealous person. To put it another way, if my SO slips and has a drunken indiscretion, I'm likely to dismiss it. On the other hand if they were emotionally involved with an outsider in a way that was threatening to me, I would feel far more betrayed than if it was physical. Being left for someone else is my worst nightmare. But to me that seems like it can happen with or without sex.

Anyway I've never been jealous of porn. It's always seemed like a very normal thing for me. I found it in my parents' house growing up, along with my mom's vibrator (which I stole). I'm actually kind of glad that porn has shifted from print and video to digital, it's much easier to conceal your personal porn collection that way. I wish my dad had taken more care to shield me from his (not that it's bad that he used it, just that it was his and I don't think I was ready to know at that age what he used to masturbate with)

As far as that movie -- I don't have access to it right now, I lost my Netflix account. I read the synopsis which indicated the character preferred porn to sex with real people. I can kind of see why someone would prefer porn or masturbation to sex -- you have total control, you don't have to address anyone else's needs but your own. What confuses me is why would that person then seek out a partner? I just don't have any examples of this situation in my own life to draw from.

""if you head back to the bedroom because you want some sex, and you catch him cleaning up, it is highly unlikely he'll be able to have sex with you right then"
I haven't been confronted with this situation, as he does not masturbate when I'm around. I don't think it's happened with past partners, either. "

Well, it was an If statement which I believe would be true for 99.9% of men. I don't think Gabi's ever encountered that either. Though to be honest, there were a few close calls. Speaking of which, you may not have been aware. There have been a handful of times when I had opportunity with Gabi, but didn't pursue it because it had been less than an hour or two since I did it and I knew I'd have a hard time performing. (And no, Gabi, it doesn't mean anytime I have a problem it is due to having had a climax recently.) In those few instances, I inadvertently traded having sex with her for masturbation.

" I suppose I haven't encountered a bona fide porn addict. To clarify: I've met a sex addict who also used porn constantly but it didn't seem to diminish his desire to have sex with real people."

I've been on two other forums where people talked about sex openly. One of them was promoting delaying sex to be two weeks apart for varied reasons. Frequently we'd have people on there struggling with porn addiction, trying to break free of it. Much like the CA no contact threads, they'd report in something like, "On day 11 with no porn..."

But I think I need to clarify something. I didn't say that viewing porn caused a lack of desire for sex. On the desire front, I'd bet for most guys it increases it. That fact is probably what bothers some BS's about it. An A is about fulfilling a fantasy life. Fantasies, whether porn in the head or porn on a screen, feed those, as it did for Gabi. Obviously not everyone exposed to it is going to cheat (I didn't), but if someone has already cheated, feeding the fantasy life is feeding the wrong wolf.

Also, whether someone is addicted to sex or not (and there is a clinical definition for that, not just because someone really enjoys it and does it frequently), doesn't bear on whether or not they are addicted to porn. I would define that addiction like this: if you can't climax without it, you're addicted.

But even if you're not addicted, what tends to happen is at first the porn gives you those high dopamine spikes. If I'm not mistaken, I recall seeing some scientific charts on that, Sex w/o porn a climax would spike around 1/3 of what cocaine provided. With porn, it was around 2/3 to 3/4 of a cocaine spike. But if used continually, the body adjusts for it and the spike gets lower and lower until it is back to where sex was without it.

If you go no porn, the body has a time of withdrawal. That is, without that additional stimulation, it is harder to perform. It's like deciding to eliminate all sugar from your diet. For a while, everything tastes bland and unappealing. Once you get used to it, you notice all sorts of flavors you didn't know were there.

I'm sure there are individual variations on that. To put it in perspective, since I was born in the early 60's, I didn't have much porn readily available to me. The few things I did see were pretty much soft porn. It wasn't until the late 90s that internet porn took off. Even then, it was "covered" in key spots and you had to pay to see the really hardcore stuff. Then around 2000 -2003, you could find small vids of sex acts without dishing out a credit card. From 2003 on, the vids grew longer and showed more. In the last few years, one could easily find full 20 minute, free, hardcore porn. Easily accessible to a five year old who can browse, with no pretensions of hiding anything.

Those dates are approximates, and I'm sure since the early 90s if you were willing to pay, you could download vids. But they had to be short because most people were on dial up back then. Downloading a 20 minute video would have tied up the phone line for a day or more, and prove quite costly to pay-as-you go accounts. So it wasn't until the advent of high-speed internet that most people had much access to porn videos.

My point it laying all that out, is my experience with online porn, really any kind of porn, that I could watch frequently, didn't start for me until I was around 40 years old. I didn't grow up watching porn everyday. You had to go to a store and buy it, and you had to be 21 to go into the special room where the hardcore movies could be rented. Not so easy as sitting down and clicking a few links, and you're off. Nor very anonymous. Someone knew what you were renting, even if it was just the cashier.

Consequently, it very well may be that for a lot of younger folks, they aren't as affected by this effect. But it also means as they get older and it gets harder, it will have more of an effect upon them. That said, one of the guys on that site I mentioned was 13 who felt he was addicted to porn. He also lamented that he had trouble performing with his girlfriend. But who knows if there were other factors to that than porn use.

As a side note, this dopamine high is also what makes a new relationship sex give so big of a bang. But as the relationship gets old, the excitement dies off until they find a new one, and it starts over again. People who have sex with a lot of people on a regular basis get addicted to that new-relationship high, and promotes serial cheating once married, because they find it difficult to simply turn that off.

Anyway, it is individually varied, I'm sure. But the real question is, what are the percentages? I don't think we know that. What we do know is how the body responds to pleasures, especially when overused. They no longer give us the same good feelings they once did. That's why for many, porn is a slippery slope into the real thing. Much like alcohol. There are a good number of people who can have one beer or glass of wine, and stop. Then there are those that if they took one sip, the next thing they know, they're drunk. I can watch porn, and unlike years past, not end up binging on it.

But back in 2005 -2008, after a month break if I grew tempted and watched, then I'd end up watching it every day. Only one time in that period, back in 2010, did I watch non-stop for more than a month and not notice any inability to perform with Gabi. I remember it because it was unusual.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. :)

Cole I read your response talking about men and multiple climax. I've only had 2 partners. The first was closer to your description but my H must be the odd one. He can within an hour climax 3 times. Of course the opportunity doesn't present itself often. Kids, schedules exhaustion limit our length of time we have. However he frequently has 2 within 15 minutes. He's never complained about discomfort.

I assume his Latin and Hatian DNA have something to do with it. When exchanging stories amongst friends, those who have similar experiences have Latin or Hatian bf/H. Just thought I would add my 2 cents

I have an ex that could performance several times in an hour as well.. I am guessing that Cole is generalizing based on his own experience and his own body but not all men are like Cole, obviously...It's fine to talk about your own experiences but generalizing is all he has based his conclusions on and just one woman he's been with..
Just my opinion

Heard,

Part of it was relating my own experience. While there are men who can do it more frequently within a given amount of time (and that will vary too at different times in their life), the dopamine spikes and desensitization are a common and general issue with most men. As I said, I don't know what the percentages are, nor am I saying all men experience that, or that Spike's SO does. In that, however, I'm not generalizing from my own experience. It is, however, still a generalization and may not apply in a particular case. But my original point is that for many men it is an issue in how ready the can be for sex if they are heavy into watching porn.

For instance, a guy who is good at fantasizing can replay porn in their head that they watched while having sex, and so outwardly he would seem quite "normal" on the sex front, even if he is desensitized and would have a hard time climaxing without any images at all.

The fact that those who have fantasized all their life need that to climax indicates a desensitization going on due to the images. Like, it took Gabi around two weeks of not fantasizing before she could feel enough to climax again.

Since I can't easily fantasize, my performance in bed is affected if I watch too much porn on a regular basis. So, yes, different circumstances and physical/mental limitations will enable one to, on the surface, not seem as affected by porn. Doesn't mean the desensitization isn't happening, just that the person is able to bypass it with mental images and such.

But, no, all men are not like me. Probably not even a majority. ;) But a lot of what I've experienced does sync with either what I've read in studies is common, or I've encountered a lot of others dealing with the same issues to know I'm not that unique. I'm using my experience more to illustrate those things than basing the generalizations upon them.

Like, obviously there are guys able to climax a lot more per day or hour than me. But it is still true for all but a rare number of men, that most cannot easily, if at all, climax within five minutes of another climax. It can happen for any man (I think it has happened around 3 times in my life, one time since dday), but it is far from the norm. Which is why multiple orgasms are often presented as the Holy Grail to guys, because so few can do them that fast. Just not biologically built for it.

But I would certainly agree, these are still generalizations, and will not apply to everyone or every situation. I was simply listing out common reasons why masturbation/porn can be a hindrance to sex with one's SO, not that it is for Spiky's case or anyone else's for that matter. But I know enough to know they are not unique to me.

I for one have never been into porn. I didn’t grow up around it at all, didn’t really have access to it, and never really had an interest. The real thing was always so much better for me. Maybe I was desensitized somewhat because in college I worked as a bouncer in a strip club. I got to see a LOT of things, but it was nothing I could ever really focus on because I had to focus on other things. Add to that, I KNEW these women, I mean I knew their stories. It’s a cash business, and that is why they were there, of course the reasons why they needed the money varied as it does with anything, but I developed a mindset that people are paying for a woman to pay attention to them. While I get that may be very exciting to some, maybe because it’s foreign to their regular experience, or maybe they simply have no one paying attention to them in any other circumstances, I simply could not get over the fact that if I wasn’t paying them then they would not pay me any mind. I don’t know if that relates to porn or not, but do know that I don’t know these people, they don’t know me, and it feels like I am spying on someone’s most intimate moment, but it’s not MY intimate moment. My current fiancé was shocked that I didn’t have a porn collection or watch porn on the computer or on my phone. I think me and my ex-wife might have rented a porn movie or two in our first year of marriage but that was 23 years ago. I guess I am the far exception and not the norm. Now what is interesting is my F, LOVES PORN!! She watches it when I am not home, and she told me up front she loved porn. And does it inhibit our sex life? The only time I am disappointed is when she watches it and climaxes and then even though we have sex later on, it’s a lot harder if not impossible for her to climax then. I have told her that is selfish because she knows I love to participate in pleasing her, so she has agreed to not masturbate to orgasm if she chooses to watch porn when I am not home. But now we watch porn TOGETHER! It’s a part of the variety that is our sex life. Sometimes we lay in bed and just watch porn for a while, and that gets her in the mood, more so than it does me, but with her beside me we are always touching, so for me that works. I do understand why women would be jealous of porn, if they are being neglected because of it, that is 100% wrong and hurtful. It builds walls in relationships. But my suggestion to that scenario is if you cant beat em, join em. I would think that most husbands would love to have a wife who was uninhibited enough to watch porn with him, and with that sexual environment already created with the two of them in that close proximity, well to me it would seem the perfect precursor to sex. That way he doesn’t have to masturbate and she doesn’t have to worry about what he is doing because she is participating with him. Who knows she may even begin to find there are aspects of sexuality that she always fantasized about seeing but could not bring herself to look at it for, whatever reason.
But I do think that you have to add the whole idea of strip clubs in this equation. My F would LOVE to go with me to strip club. I am the one who really has no interest. Just some food for thought – As Always Be Blessed - GaC