cage Community Group
group for people with some depth who enjoy debating theories. if you have an opinion on anything, throw it in - works better with some good arguments to support it though :P
cagedDreams
ok, this an old theory of mine, we're a bit short on threads so here it goes:
i'll start with the 2 most important factors in this thinking;
1 - the concept of nothing and things coming to being out of nothing; true nothing is a negation of everything so i haven't been satisfied with any explanations of how things come into being out of this, whether it be the big bang theory (where did the singularity come from?), religious angles (where did god come from?), chaos theory (chaos implies something being in chaos, where did that come from?) or many other theories that try to support these or similar as at the end they all fall into the trap of some ever existing environment which isn't logical as everything has a cause even if its in an exotic dimension other than time and space.
2 - Our true self and its purpose ; This real self is known to anyone who's practiced meditation and has also been realised by western existensial philosphers - what i'm talking about is the pure awareness that is beyond our thoughts and emotions, has no substance when you look into it and from a functional or practical point of view has no purpose whatsoever. It helps to use a combination of the eastern and western techniques of identifying this 'self' as the eastern way really helps you 'see' it by not rationalising it and western way is good for actually understanding for the purpose of tying it into other bits of logic...for me, zen is the best eastern path and Jean-Paul Sartre the best existensial philosopher (although i'm yet to decipher a lot of his old time english :/)...even Descartes ended up changing his famous "i think, therefore i am" into "I am, I exist" once he realised the true self is beyond thoughts ;)
Anyway, time for the theory; Basically, if we really think about the first factor, something coming out of nothing for no reason (there can't be reasons if there is nothing) just can't happen....but, if we're going with the concept of true nothing being a complete negation of everything then there being nothing falls short of that as we end up with 'nothing' existing!
So the only way we have a true negation of everything would be for nothing not to exist as well which can only be achieved by everything existing but that in turn has to be negated as well!...ok, i have gone completely nuts but i'll keep going :D
....now, how the hell do we get out of this funny loop? in comes the second factor, something that brings everything else into existance without them existing and doesn't itself really exist...hope you're following....
this true self of ours, its the one thing we can be sure exists but the more you look into it, the more you'll find that it lacks any substance - you can reflect on yourself and say you identified yourself but if you think about that, you're the one doing the reflecting and what you found is something you possess (similar to posessing your body but the body not really being the true you), and if you reflect on that component, you'll find the same, you are reflecting on the thing reflecting on the thoughts so you're not that thing and so on, never allowing you to actually put a finger on the real you, because the real you has no substance and hence doesn't exist....
....but at the same time it exists and is aware of these mental loops you're going through without going through them even though its you and you seem to be going through them...i love these loops but i'll jump out before i get stuck here.....
....next, this 'self' does the same thing with external entities, making them 'real' - if we were to break things down, there is basically nothing but a soup of particles (and even that is just a construct of our awareness), its us who identify these as 'my body', 'tree', 'dog', 'monitor' etc...these are simply concepts we use as part of our thought process for practical purposes and there is no reality to them without our awareness of those thought processes...
....and that awareness is not really required for those practical purposes...take for example a robot in a manufacturing line, it does its job perfectly well without being aware that its just bolted a 'door' to a 'car'....now, you might say that even though the robot isn't aware, those things still exist but that percieved existance is nothing more than your awareness of the thought in your head about their existance and that thought is nothing more than some electrical impulses based on past input from the senses which are themselves just some chemical reactions within the soup of particles out there....
....ok, starting to go on a bit too long so i'll do the rest briefly for now....basically what it comes down to is that as we all have different perspectives in life, the combined 'selves' or 'awarenesses' of us all (and any aliens out there) through all time makes it possible for everything to exist without truly existing. Some things like laws of physics and logic exist from all perspectives as they hold this artificial reality together but they don't really have any substance either (think of it as the common definition of artificial reality, the software would be its structure but software in action doesn't actually exist, its just a flow of current in circuitry and current is not software), other things like fairies and elves only exist for some perspectives as they're not necessary for any practical purpose but must exist to negate their non-existance and am sure they're as real to people who see things from that perspective as this monitor in front of me is to me but none of it is really real as the only thing that exists is nothing and for that to exist nothing can exist including nothing.......hope you enjoyed, i'm gonna go take my medication now...lol
i'll start with the 2 most important factors in this thinking;
1 - the concept of nothing and things coming to being out of nothing; true nothing is a negation of everything so i haven't been satisfied with any explanations of how things come into being out of this, whether it be the big bang theory (where did the singularity come from?), religious angles (where did god come from?), chaos theory (chaos implies something being in chaos, where did that come from?) or many other theories that try to support these or similar as at the end they all fall into the trap of some ever existing environment which isn't logical as everything has a cause even if its in an exotic dimension other than time and space.
2 - Our true self and its purpose ; This real self is known to anyone who's practiced meditation and has also been realised by western existensial philosphers - what i'm talking about is the pure awareness that is beyond our thoughts and emotions, has no substance when you look into it and from a functional or practical point of view has no purpose whatsoever. It helps to use a combination of the eastern and western techniques of identifying this 'self' as the eastern way really helps you 'see' it by not rationalising it and western way is good for actually understanding for the purpose of tying it into other bits of logic...for me, zen is the best eastern path and Jean-Paul Sartre the best existensial philosopher (although i'm yet to decipher a lot of his old time english :/)...even Descartes ended up changing his famous "i think, therefore i am" into "I am, I exist" once he realised the true self is beyond thoughts ;)
Anyway, time for the theory; Basically, if we really think about the first factor, something coming out of nothing for no reason (there can't be reasons if there is nothing) just can't happen....but, if we're going with the concept of true nothing being a complete negation of everything then there being nothing falls short of that as we end up with 'nothing' existing!
So the only way we have a true negation of everything would be for nothing not to exist as well which can only be achieved by everything existing but that in turn has to be negated as well!...ok, i have gone completely nuts but i'll keep going :D
....now, how the hell do we get out of this funny loop? in comes the second factor, something that brings everything else into existance without them existing and doesn't itself really exist...hope you're following....
this true self of ours, its the one thing we can be sure exists but the more you look into it, the more you'll find that it lacks any substance - you can reflect on yourself and say you identified yourself but if you think about that, you're the one doing the reflecting and what you found is something you possess (similar to posessing your body but the body not really being the true you), and if you reflect on that component, you'll find the same, you are reflecting on the thing reflecting on the thoughts so you're not that thing and so on, never allowing you to actually put a finger on the real you, because the real you has no substance and hence doesn't exist....
....but at the same time it exists and is aware of these mental loops you're going through without going through them even though its you and you seem to be going through them...i love these loops but i'll jump out before i get stuck here.....
....next, this 'self' does the same thing with external entities, making them 'real' - if we were to break things down, there is basically nothing but a soup of particles (and even that is just a construct of our awareness), its us who identify these as 'my body', 'tree', 'dog', 'monitor' etc...these are simply concepts we use as part of our thought process for practical purposes and there is no reality to them without our awareness of those thought processes...
....and that awareness is not really required for those practical purposes...take for example a robot in a manufacturing line, it does its job perfectly well without being aware that its just bolted a 'door' to a 'car'....now, you might say that even though the robot isn't aware, those things still exist but that percieved existance is nothing more than your awareness of the thought in your head about their existance and that thought is nothing more than some electrical impulses based on past input from the senses which are themselves just some chemical reactions within the soup of particles out there....
....ok, starting to go on a bit too long so i'll do the rest briefly for now....basically what it comes down to is that as we all have different perspectives in life, the combined 'selves' or 'awarenesses' of us all (and any aliens out there) through all time makes it possible for everything to exist without truly existing. Some things like laws of physics and logic exist from all perspectives as they hold this artificial reality together but they don't really have any substance either (think of it as the common definition of artificial reality, the software would be its structure but software in action doesn't actually exist, its just a flow of current in circuitry and current is not software), other things like fairies and elves only exist for some perspectives as they're not necessary for any practical purpose but must exist to negate their non-existance and am sure they're as real to people who see things from that perspective as this monitor in front of me is to me but none of it is really real as the only thing that exists is nothing and for that to exist nothing can exist including nothing.......hope you enjoyed, i'm gonna go take my medication now...lol
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026832.100-commentary-the-free-lunch-that-made-our-universe.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations.html