To me it seems you still love your wife. What do you want to achieve by divorcing her? Just try to envision your life in all the details without her. She is who she is. You can not entirely change the person. Her feelings are something she can not control ether. She feels what she feels. Counseling can not fix it. This is why your wife does not want to start sessions. You said, you need a referee. What for? You want somebody to tell her she is screw up and does not treat you well. Your wife is an adult person she does not need an outside judge.
I would take a time to think through this situation many times before making final decision.

I can only tell you a cautionary tale. I had stayed in a merry-go-round of a marriage for 19 years. I tried to get off at least 5 times because I saw the writing on the wall, but thought love would be enough. Love is only enough if both parties love as equally as possible and share the same goals in life. A month ago, I finally woke up and saw the writing on the wall and asked myself...do I want to go in the same circles or not. We tried counseling, the counselor told my stbx that she thought the marriage might be over. My stbx didn't believe her and she said of course there might be hope. I stayed for another 8 years and the merry-go-round kept spinning faster and faster. The only person who can answer the questions you pose is you...are you worth more than the marriage? Good luck.

Wow, i hear and feel your frustration, but sounds like you still love each other but hurt. Could you read the divorce remedy by Michele Weiner Davis. My divorce is on hold and we both have been reading it! Great tips on getting through to your spouse and understanding them

We did MC while still living together in limbo it did not
go anywhere. He was checked out and disconnected
Already. He was just playing along going for a few
Sessions to look good.

My MC told me to leave him, later on i found my own
Therapist she said the same thing. I stayed and tried
Some more. He then asked for a divorce so he could
have a better relationship with a female friend. HUGS

I am so sorry. I know that you hurt. God bless you. I am glad you too are going for counseling. I hope you heal soon. She really should be talking to you about the two of you and not her parents and friends. Try to focus on you right now. Be good to yourself. Walk on the beach. Feel the warm sunshine on your face. Smell the flowers. Be kind to you!!!

Thanks everyone. As you can see, I woke up! Wasn't sure I wanted to.

I don't think love is the issue. For me it is trust. For her it is just me. They way I talk, just the way I am. Like I said, I want my marriage to work. But I do feel like Dragonflywishes; where we are locked into a cycle that never ends. She says I am UP or Down. I probably have SAD, the Seasonal depression. UP here in MI Fall and winter suck. Its dark early, grey, cold and just ugly. It takes all my energy to get up some days.

I guess for me, I am trying to understand why if I am such a fuck up, such a horrible ass, such a duche, why she would want me at all.

For me I love her. She is the mother of my children. She is my best friend. None of it makes any difference... I wish it did. I dont know what to do. The way she talks in some light, they would be better off completely with out me in their life, if you know what I mean.

Today I am sad, and alone; my new normal. Cheers.

8 or 9 years ago stbx first brought up marriage counseling (I had brough it up even before then, but he never heard me, doesn't remember). I said I was all for it, go ahead and set it up. He didn't. I didn't because I KNEW he would "forget" the appointments. I have always been the one to set doctor, dentist, auto repair..... all kinds of appointments up for him, and he would often forget to go to them, even after a reminder the night before, the morning of, and during the day. A few years later, same thing. I said I will be there, tell me when and where. I knew it was just talk on his part. It never happened. Then two years ago things got to a critical mass for me, and I set up the appointments. He missed a few, wouldn't do any of the assigned homework, and argued with the therapist when she told him that our marriage had to be his priority. He said, "well, first I have to finish the house". And "well, it's baseball season and I'm very busy coaching". Well, that pretty much was it for me. I knew the marriage was never his priority, I knew it from day one, and hearing him argue with the therapist about it gave me the clarity I needed. The band-aid was finally ripped off. I had been in a one-way marriage, and he wanted to keep it exactly that way. I will be divorced this Monday, and I am finally feeling peace.

To me, I think your wife is like my stbx. Actions speak louder than words. She has done nothing to help the marriage, right? She is not in touch with her true feelings, she can't face herself. Maybe she can bitch and moan to her friend about you, your personal habits and traits that bother her, but can she look into herself and see why she's so unhappy? I think she's afraid to face reality. Petrified, for whatever reason. Delaying marriage counseling off to the summer is absolute proof. There never is a perfect time to start working on your marriage. You know it, the best time is now. If not now, then she's just not invested enough. I hate to say it, but she's showing you that your marriage is not worth the emotional work she has to put in. She's proven it time and time again. I think you're probably a terrific guy, but she can't/won't/doesn't see it.

I hope you two can get the needed counseling, but do yourself a favor, stand by what you've said. If she doesn't agree to a counseling session by the end of this month, which is 25 days, then stick to your guns and continue with the divorce. In fact, stop asking her when she's ready. Set up the appointment at a time you believe will be most convenient for her, arrange for child care if you have little ones, and then tell her when the appointment is. Tell her it's now or never time, that this has got to be her priority. You HAVE to stick to the end of the month timeline, stick to your boundaries otherwise, you're just her patsy and you will be in this exact same place next year when that lease expires. Get the clarity you need.

The problem with going off like a catherine wheel like you did finding that phone bill, is that you dissipate the motivational energy, and find you don't have the strength to stay the course.

you have gone off half cocked, and you may have won the battle but you're going to lose the war. You have been brutally escalatory, overreacted enormously (done the whole OCD write a letter ten times, I ALWAYS burn those letters. ALWAYS. ) and can surely not expect warm fuzzies in response?

I admit that the reality is that you never forgave 8 yrs ago or you wouldn't be looking at the bill and memorising the phone number. So that wasn't true. And now you've basically had a delayed reaction to the whole thing. But you've been foolish here: and you deserve to wear some blame. You have been unrealistic and not honest yourself.

so how about you arrange an amicable breakup, not a vindictive one. Let go of your anger, it's not appropriate. Be polite, be friendly, you two have kids together.

Arrange your access and then call it quits.

bridgie101, You seem to be very harsh. I wonder if your break up was vindictive and just terrible? Perhaps your advice and comments read a lot more into what I have said on here. Having said that, I am by no means an angle, or perfect. I am human. I have feelings. I have hurt. I have baggage.

I have never claimed not to have blame. In fact reading all of my old post, I not only admit that I have blame, I own it. Over react? Possibly, IDK. I am far from perfect. But I am trying to learn. I am trying to be better. But I was kicked out of the home. I was already on edge knowing that she acted this way when she had the affair. Perhaps it did not justify a letter, but it was a letter that told how her actions hurt me. She doesn't want to talk, so how else do you communicate your feelings, hurt and what you need from the other? She still doesn't realize or care how much that person hurts me, and how much it scares me for the sake of our marriage. Which after thinking over the last day and a half is looking less and less likely to succeed. I am losing the hope I had for it after listening to her responses and reaction Friday.

As far as an amicable breakup, I am doing everything I can to ease this for her. 12 years married this month, with 2 more together prior is not going to go to the wayside with out hurt, and anger. I am being open, honest, and acting as honorably as I can. I am not out screwing anyone else. I am not out bad mouthing her.

Unfortunately there is a reality that she is not prepared for, that she will not be able to stay in the house. That our kids will end up moving and attending a new school (unless they stay at the apartment with me, I still live in the district. But that is something that she will not let happen). She can not afford to buy me out of my half of the house and she wants me to pay the mortgage. I can't afford to do that as much as I would like to do so. That's $400 more than what I am expecting to pay for child support. Thankfully the rest of our possessions are paid for, so it is just a matter of splitting what is hers and what is mine. Of course she has the kids, so that means she will get the things that are needed to care for them. Really, I don't care what she wants. I have enough to live now. I am more concerned that I get my fair share of time with the kids. And she doesn't seem to think I deserve it. I will fight for them, as kindly as I can. But I am DAD and I deserve to spend time with them. But I an not unrealistic. Just this morning, I asked her if she wanted to have them for Mothers day weekend (which should be mine). She said she wants them for Sunday, I said fine. So I am happy to work with her. I just want her to do the same for me.

Having been in the middle of a terrible divorce as a kid, I will not put my kids in that position. When she screamed and yelled at me when I walked in to take care of the kids last Wednesday (In front of my oldest daughter) I asked her to speak with me outside of the house. When she did not and continued to scream, I turned around and walked out of the house, I wont do any of this in front of them. She is welcome to yell and scream all she wants at me. All I asked her to do and will continue to ask her to do is take it to the car so the kids did not hear it.

I am trying to do this right. But there will be hurt, no doubt. Everyone loses in divorce.

Anony, keep doing whatever you can do for your
Own support And therapy. Try to keep her out of
your head as much as you can and focus on you
and your girls only.

It does not sound like there is much to work with.

Sometimes you just have to face that reality and
move on as hard as that is to do. If its toxic there
Is no going back. Too much damage, hurt and Pain
to crawl over.

Divorce is awful and the fallout is terrible on every
Level. I have no children and i can still attest to that.
My ex has no remorse or concern for me. Only cares
about His own financial consequences and how they
impacted him, HUGS