first of all *hugs* havent seen you post in a while :)

my opinion is that we as human beings have expectations...no matter how far fetched...we project on how we want "that" person to be...rather then taking in the reality of the person...

maybe we are in denial because we want sooooo much for that person to be "the" person that we want them to be...

I have stopped making expectations (or at least I just say that)...expectations lead to dissapointment...

the last thing I will say is this...

cliche I know...doing something over and over again and expecting a different result is the defenition of insanity...

*big hugs my friend* hope you are ok :)

Hey Pease, thank you very much for sharing. I agree with your statement and indeed we all are a little "insane" by wanting to command or wish the behavior of those we love to change and part with the down-spiral pattern.

My question could be mostly addressed to myself and those who are facing the same situation: when do we hit bottom and say enough is enough, cut the losses and hit the road?

well we all have choices...but it depends on investment...investment of the heart and soul...and emotion...how low is your bottom...has that person reached YOUR emotional bottom yet?

Here is a question.

Can you live without them in your life?

Yes, I can.

Then it has to be no contact....whatsoever...Can you be strong enough to do that?

I wish it would be that simple. There is a little baby, an angel, involved in the story and the manipulation is based on the child. I don't have the heart to leave the baby at the mercy of anyone who can harm or show the possibility of such in any way.

Peacelove: I am officially Insane. :o). But will re-read your words.

I will still trust people.

OMG my friend...you didn't mention that...you see...

when you open up and give all of the factors and variables it leads to different decisions...it's like a windy road...different forks in the roads...different decisions...

I still put the ownership on your choice...but will not ask the question...

good night my sweet friend...base your decision on tolerance, patience, and relevance oxoxox

I don't think it is an emotion taking over and making you do those things..

I think we keep on giving and helping because of that stupid "Golden Rule" thing.....we believe in it, and so we keep doing good things for people in the hope that some day it will help them see what assholes they are, and they would immediately change their ways and treat you as well as you deserve!

Don't change who you are...you are a wonderful person...stay that way. But if you can walk away from the situation, you owe it to you, to treat yourself to the Golden Rule too...