I am really sorry for the struggle you are having and I feel for you. I only know enough to answer your question about mistake with---
In my opinion, It depends on the mistake.
Sending support and hugs.

jump all of the way in or all of the way out, sandy. being on the fence will tear a person apart inside.

Sure people are allowed to make mistakes, but it depends on whether they try to make amends and not repeat the mistake.
I don't believe the speeding up of forgiveness is really possible.
It all depends on the mistake and how far reaching the impact is of it on others. This affects the ability for and speed of forgiveness.
If people can see that the person is truly sorry for, admits their mistake, and really works to never repeat it, then of course the ability to forgive is an easier process.

Possibly your extended family were suspicious of this guys character all along, and his mistake has confirmed their suspicions.

Do you think that you are having a tough time forgiving him, because deep down you are also not totally sure of his integrity or true character? Are you concerned that you are possibly trying to bluff yourself too? Just a thought.

I really can't make an accurate assessment without knowing the nature of the crime.

It could go from him farting in bed, to leaving you tied up in the house for days?

Where are we at here?

Sandy, I've been around for a long time with you and have watched you go through your divorce. I am on the same page as new2free. People are allowed to make mistakes, we are human. It's how they make up for their mistakes.

You will not be able to speed up the process of forgiveness. You may always be leary in some respects. I do, however, feel that if he is making strides to show you that the mistakes he made he is regretful for and understands why it is you are upset, then the forgiveness may come quicker.

As for your family, if he rubbed them the wrong way (which I don't know) then they may not be willing to accept as easily as you. They may see something you are not. I am not saying they do, but outsiders sometimes see things we can't. This is tough. I wish you luck. Family is important and having their support is also important, but you need to do what is right for you.

Thanks, guys. I guess I am by nature suspicious since my divorce. Constant triggers from my past. I hate it.

Faithful - I am trying, believe me, I am trying.

New - you hit the nail on the head, and that is why I am wavering... Do I believe that he is careless and using me? No, I do not. But I do see something in his character that is foreign to me and causes me concern.

Dumped - OK - I trust your opinion, so here goes. Kevin has had some difficulty in the past with employment. He works to pay the bills, not for any enjoyment that he may get from it. He had a really great job that he quit without notice to me because he was not getting along with his supervisor and had a feeling that he was going to be let go anyway. (Kevin can be hard to get along with because he is the type of person that feels that he is always right and can appear to be condenscending). He got another job, similar type of job but working as a subcontractor. This means that he has to pay out money ahead of receiving money so that he can buy product to sell. Our understanding is that he pays three of the main bills in the house and I payh the mortgage. In the past he became delinquent with two bills causing the cable/internet and the water to be shut off. I told him that if that happened again, he would have to leave. I expect that he should be able to contribute this $600 towards living in my home. Apparently over the summer he became very short of cash to pay out for more product. He had product that he had already purchase that just was not selling. Very little money coming in. He did not share this with me at all. At the end of the summer I heard, I believe quiet innocently, from my father that Kevin had "borrowed" money from Dad - twice! This is a HUGE trigger for me as my ex had done the same to keep us from bankruptcy. It was also VERY embarrassing for me, as it was very obvious that I did not know about the "loan". I'm going around spending my money as I please while my fiance is borrowing from my parents?????????? I was devastated. The evening I found out I took off my engagement ring and gave it to Kevin. Here is the second thing that just floored me - he pawned it to get more money that he must have owed! He told my dad he was going to pay him back early October. Here it is 11/13 and he has yet to pay him back. When I asked Kevin this morning how close he was to doing so his reply was, "Close". I know that Kevin is working hard to make his business bigger and better, he does rely on the public to buy his stuff however. I get that. Secondly, I don't know if I will ever be able to look at that engagement ring the same, providing I ever get it back....

Am I being too harsh?

I love him and he loves me. I don't want to feel like he's not pulling his load, and yet I see him working six days a week 7 hours a day. Maybe he just can only earn what he can. But, in that case I have urged cutting down our expenses so that he can cover the three bills: tv/internet, gas and electric, and phones. We can go to basic cable and cut out internet, gas and electric he just needs to catch up on that bill (he still owes from last winter a little bit) and phones we could go to trac phones or pre-pay.... He doesn't seem to understand about setting up a budget. He has lived alone for many, many years and I believe got used to living paycheck to paycheck, paying Peter from Paul. Never paying off a bill but paying enough on it so that it doesn't get shut off/canceled. A whole different way of thinking than mine. But I freely admit that my trigger is remembering when I discovered that my ex had gotten us in $120,000 debt. It ruined our marriage and put the fear of God in me! (And there is the trigger of going into Foreclosure during the divorce and digging my way out). I have an obsession with money and keeping up on bills and such. I understand that it's my obsession and not his. He sees things as fine as long as nothing is actually shut off.

sandy, it takes an especially disciplined person to be self employed and competent at managing cash flow. i know because i do it myself.

your man sucks at self employment cash flow management but he will learn hopefully. but, in the meantime, you should be in charge of all bills and be prepared to pay them yourself every month. bank the money coming in from your man.

or, make him move out. if he moves out, he will be forced to quickly learn to manage his cash flow.

either way, you have to get full control over the finances since you are the responsible one.

if i were in a relationship with this kind of person, they would drive me bonkers. lol

I appreciate you value my opinion. ;)

Well that was a lot less than I was thinking. I'm glad though.

Hmm, if I look at it from his perspective, I see it as trying very hard to please you, going to great lengths, and taking great risks to do so. Being old school (assumption), communication may not come as easy for him, as you.

You are going to be the one to decide if his heart was in the right place in asking your father for money. From what you are telling me, I think it was. I think you were not informed due to his embarrassment. For me, it would take some huge balls to ask my fiance's dad for money. As far as the ring, I think that would make it mean more. ;) That ring is helping him while he secures his, and your future.

Now, that said, the real failure is in his communication to you. He should not be embarrassed to say he's not going to be able to come up with the money, and you being the understanding person you are, would accept that, and draw your boundary. Give him X amount of months to get whatever he is doing off the ground, or he needs to find another job, or he needs to move forward and find another place to live.

Dumped - got it. I was feeling that way myself, in my heart.

He does suffer from pride, there is no way in hell that he could fail in front of me. I do demand a lot of him - I was raised that way - it is embedded in me.

I believe, also in my h eart, that my father offered the money to Kevin as a sort of trap. I really do believe that. Kevin did not ask Dad for the money, Dad asked how his business was going, he told him, and Dad offered him money. I am certain that he did it as a test, and Kevin being the trusting guy he is, fell for it. My parents were aware that I had kicked him out following the question from my dad about when he could expect his payment (they were leaving rochester for Florida the next day to go home). My father was very upset with himself when he saw how enraged I was. He called me repeatedly over the next two weeks begging me not to blame Kevin for taking the money, that he had offered it to him. In one conversation he did let this slip though, "Sandy, how are you are your friend getting along?". "My friend, Dad? Don't you mean my fiance, Kevin?" See - demeaning attitude towards him, which leads me to believe he doesn't think much of him. And the questions during the summer about who pays what bills in our relationship, that kind of thing...

Ok - thanks for the statement about the ring. I will try and look at it differently. What was the trigger for me was my ex and I had traveled to Florida to be with my family at Christmas many years ago. Richard bought me a gold bracelet for a gift while down there. It was very shortly after that that I discovered the huge debt he had collected and he asked for money from my parents. My mother repeatedly said, "I can't get over how Richard went out and bought you that bracelet when he knew how much money he owed...." So, the engagement ring from Kevin was kinda feeling that way to me. Stupid triggers - Kevin is NOT Richard!!!!

Bingo.

Kevin is not Richard.

Well done. ;)

While it is true, they are not the same men, it is also true we can sort of recreate situations for ourselves .... I do this somehow. I have relived various aspects of my horrid drama ridden divorce, quite unconsciously.

I think you two now realize that you have a communications problem and a money IQ problem, and that there is a reserve from some family felt toward your partner that has been indicated strongly enough that you will be conscious and considering these matters. I bet you an K will do so productively.
I know you are low tolerance for games and bullshit and that you have been really triggered by all this, and that is no fun for you at all. I am sorry that you are going through this.
Seems though that you two will be able to cut through these issues . I think the will is there and I wish you both the best and clearest fresh start.

I say good for you for seeing red flags and paying attention to them. I don't see it so much as different lifestyles when it comes to money. It's about being responsible vs. not being responsible. People who are responsible with their money pay their bills first before anything else. You 2 are polar opposites when it comes to money management. Can this be overcome? I don't know. It would be a dealbreaker for me personally because I came from a financially struggling family, and I am always on time with all my bills and will forego buying anything I can't afford so I don't end up the way my parents did. Being financially responsible is important: it gets you a lower interest rate on loans, and it helps you to sleep at night. I guess you could take complete control of the finances, but do you really want to be in charge of someone else's bills? That's what you have to ask yourself: how much are you willing to do to keep this relationship going? Where is your boundary? I like the idea of giving him a deadline to get his fiscal house in order. You've been down this road before, and I can't imagine you would want to go down it again. Pay attention to the red flags.

Sandy, I can tell you are a wonderful woman and opened your heart and your home to this man. You are trusting this man just as you did your ex. Problems developed when this man did not talk to you about vital things that you should have known. Pride has been the downfall of people, but when you are sharing a home and expenses with someone, you MUST tell them if you cannot pay that month. Also, I believe it was really low of him to borrow off your relatives behind your back. That was a desparate act by him and that's why he didn't tell you.

I make the following suggestions to you and it is up to you as to what you do. Remember that the person you get involved with DOES impact your family. So you also have to consider protecting your family and you.

(1) The relatives and your boyfriend should be told that he is not to borrow money from any relative again. the boyfriend and relative should be brought together to put together a chart of money owed and money paid. That's the only way you will know what the boyfriend has been paying and if he is really "close." You can't just trust his word because this is your family he dealt with behind your back. Get that straightened out as soon as possible.

(2) Contact Equifax, Transamerica or another agency and pay to have a history, financial and criminal check run on this man. I strongly suggest that because it is obvious his money problems are not new and he dealt with money problems long before he met you. You need to know how long his money problems have existed, how far they went (has he been in personal bankrkuptcy, owned companies and put them in bankruptcy too) and find out what, if any criminal history exists. It is not unheard of for people with money problems to embezzle, steal or get money illegally and when they get caught it goes on the criminal record. Because he has already impacted your family, you owe it to them and you to find out his history, his financials, and his criminal history to make sure you're not involved with someone that could cause you or your family more harm that what he has already.

(3) You only know what this man has shown you and he has shown you a lack of communication, borrowing money twice from your relatives behind your back and not paying bills and having ultities shut off without you knowing. That's sneaky and not okay in any sense. That he refuses to renegotiate what bills exist and then cut down, shows he is not very flexible either with your household that YOU graciously allowed him to live in. So I don't think your having utilities shut off and such is not that important to him and it's probably been in his pst. And if you eventually send him away, money will still be owed.

(4) For the sake of yourself and your family, know exactly who are dealing with. If you don't, you could be yet another story on TV of a woman who was taken in by a man who made her feel good until everything started going wrong. Remember that if you told this story to police, they would be asking you if you had the guy checked out BEFORE YOU BROUGHT HIM INTO YOUR HOME. You are your best protector and no one will ride to your rescue. Things already have started going wrong.

(5) From now on, anyone that you are thinking of inviting to live in your home, you DO NOT have them reside with you until you run a history, financial and criminal check on them so you know who you have. There are bad people out there who prey on good people like you. You don't have those people live with you.

Good luck and I hope the results of all this turn out well for your sake and the sake of your family.

As thanks for the advice. I will look into the settling of this account with my dad right away.