Well, first of all, grief itself tends to be unreasonable. There are pockets of time when -- and I don't care how long it's been-- that someone who is in a certain place in their grief will be unreasonable. Obviously, it happens more when it's freshest, but it's not impossible to say/do/believe certain things surrounding a deceased loved one's death that others are baffled by. That being said, your fiance seems to be trying to control things because of a) the belief that this is what his mother would have felt had she been alive and b) likely because he's so much older than his sister. I've dealt with this with my older brother even last night, when he places assumptions on my behaviors and tries to order me around and "discipline" me for something that I haven't even done.

Now, moving on to the fact that you can see both sides... here's an important thing to know/remember, you can respect someone's opinion, you can acknowledge that they feel that their opinion is valid and you can still say it's nonsense. If you want to remain neutral, that's fine. But if you do, you have to be willing to weather the storm of them fighting, because it doesn't sound like this will be resolved. If you do choose a side, then you have to deal with the fallout of that. Indeed, by not choosing, either party is likely to feel "unsupported" by you.

You can't control what others are doing. They can't control each other. They have to make the choice to reconcile or not. And sometimes, being distant for a time can be very healthy. It gives them a chance to find the space (emotionally and mentally) to be able to compromise. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer, best of luck.

I am not sure if this fight is really over respect for mom's house. I mean really, does the house care who sleeps there? Who owns the house? Was it mutual property? Were they renting?

Given their age difference (she 15 years younger than he), he may be having problems with his kid sister having a relationship with a man that from what you say may be sexual.

Being a man, granted a bit older than your fiance, I think that your brother is the unreasonable one. (I'm 63, older than the 2 of them combined!) Did she spend the night at his house before? Did he spend the night at her house while their mother was still alive?

I'd bet a months supply of beer that he is more upset over her relationship with him than over the respect for his mother's house.

Gentle hugs

ps, not a big bet on my part, a 6 pack of beer can last me almost a decade!

Oops, I meant to say your fiance is the unreasonable one. (And I try to edit my replies before hitting the Add button.)

Alialin- I think you may be right about the control factor. At times I wonder if he feels he needs to take over as the authority since their mom's passing. I don't believe he fully accepts her as an adult and when their mom was alive he didn't have to think about it.

Pepper- I was hoping you would reply because you are so very wise and give great advice. The house is a rental and Sister has taken over payments . I do think he's bothered by the relationship [yes it is sexual] in fact he has often made comments about how he doesn't understand how she wants to hang out, travel with friends, go to parties or [insert activity here] I think he expected her to fall apart and was kind of disappointed that she didn't. Especially since he is such a mess. Now he has decided that the guy is taking advantage of her vulnerability, has a low moral compass (because who sleeps with a girl in her deceased mother's house?) And therefore he doesn't like him (he never met the guy)

I suspect maybe he feels if he views the house as his sister's and no longer his mothers that somehow it is letting go and he is not ready to let go. He says he will always look at the house as his mother's house and she should be "decent" and respect it.

I glossed over that part about it being 15 months since their mother died.

I attended a grief class, and there was a man there who took the loss of his mom very hard. He was very angry at his dad (or was it his step dad, not sure) for wanting to change things in the house. He wanted things left exactly the same as they were when his mom died.

EXACTLY!

By the end of the class it looked like he was starting to let go.

I do understand your fiancee's emotions. There are things I don't want to do about my dad's estate because doing so just underscores the fact that he is gone.


Is your fiance able to see other points of view at all?

Pepper- He claims that he does but I know this man and he is very bull-headed and set in his ways. Once he forms an opinion, it takes a lot to get him to change his mind. And his opinion is that it will always be his mom's house. Not sure how he will feel later but he actually wants her to move to another apartment while she wants to stay.

I feel there is only so much I can say anyway. I still have both my parents and I don't understand the type of pain he is feeling. So I don't want to overstep. i just want them to get along and support each other

One phrase you can use is something like this:

The family dynamics between you and your sister started when she was born and you were 15 years old. Long before you and I started going together. The two of you need to sit down as adults and resolve it.

Then bow out as gracefully and assertively as you can because getting in the middle of a sibling squabble is about as close to a no-win situation as you can imagine!

I'm not sure about siblings since I am an only child. However, I just lost my father less than a week ago and I can tell you I feel very weird about certain things. For example, I didn't want to sit at the couch to have dinner because that was my fathers spot. My fiance didn't want to sit there either. I was able to sit there during the day but dinner there is a very clear memory of him sitting there.

I think that if someone had brought someone else there to do whatever in that spot, I can imagine I would get angry. As irrational as it is, I would feel that spot is his and I don't want anyone to muck it up. However, if that person was also going through the same loss, I might feel differently.

Either way I'm 99% sure its the grief talking and he wants to preserve the house and therefore the memories. He can preserve memories without preserving the house, but for some its hard. When we moved the furniture around after the hospice bed was taken, I felt weird about it at first and didn't like it. But we talked it out and it was ok.

I'm not sure how to resolve this but I think if they talk calmly about it it can help. It really helps to discuss each others needs in processing the grief because everyone is different. I know we are going to wait a year to go through my fathers things.

They could also try grief counseling. That might be appropriate in this situation. HUGS. Hope they can move past the anger for each other soon.

I want to share my opinion and just say this. I think they need to keep you out of it and they both need to go to a Therapist to help them deal with their differences. In the end, you are going to be the one who gets blamed and hurt.
Hugs

Redvelvet- Thank you for your insight. It is amazing how you are able to offer such sound, thoughtful advice in the face of your very recent loss. It means a lot and I thank you. I think it is good that you are giving yourself time to go through your dad's things. It can be a very overwhelming process even after a year has passed. I am also glad to hear that you have a fiance to support you even though he may feel lost on what to do or say.

Grammybear and Pepper- I am going to take your advice and bow out of this. I decided to just be an ear for each of them but emphasize that this is for them to resolve on their own and I have no place to comment.

I'm so grateful for all of you and your support.

Angie, your finance is still completely overwhelmed and heartbroken by this loss and he is still feeling grief, resentment, anger and sadness. If I remember, I don't think him and his sister were that close to begin with. That may not be helping factors, not to mention she is having sex (he don't want to think about that) and her having a relationship means she is motivated, starting to move on, and thinking about other things other than the loss.

He has not gotten there, and I know he still feels very protective over his mothers house because he is so devastated. To see someone else, his sister and also related to the same person he lost, not as miserable as he is can be very hurtful. I'm sure he resents that she can move forward and he can't. In saying all that, I think he is being unreasonable because she is taking care of the house and despite how he feels, if she has taken over the house and living there then that is what she is supposed to do--live there.

It is understandable that he feels the way he does. Imagine if she wanted to do renovations or even move this man in. On the surface it's like they dont' care or miss the person, they have already moved on and continuing on with their life, and seeing things changed or used that belonged to our loved one feels wrong, even if it's really not.

She's still very young, so if anything, I wouldn't want her to do something like move a man in quickly and end up being taken advantage of, you know what I mean? They may think "Hmm, she has a house, I can just move on in."

Hollwheart: it's so good to hear from you. I think of you often and hope your path to healing continues to move forward.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. It seems like he wanted her to fall apart and can't deal with the fact that she hasn't. Unfortunately they aren't speaking right now. He tried to reach out to her but she won't return his calls/ texts. I told him she may need some time because he said some pretty hurtful things in the heat of the moment.

I really do understand where each of them are coming from but I hope they mend things soon. They really need each other now more than ever. Her birthday is next month so hopefully that will bring them together to at least talk.

I hear what you're saying about her being taken advantage of, but she seems to have a good head on her shoulders. Her mom raised her right. She has had to grow up fast living most of her life with a sick mom to take care of.

I actually wish he'd take a pager from her book and start enjoying life again. One day at a time, I guess.