Atrial Fibrillation (AFib) Support Group
Atrial fibrillation (AF or afib) is an abnormal heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmia) which involves the two small, upper heart chambers (the atria). Heart beats in a normal heart begin after electricity generated in the atria by the sinoatrial node spread through the heart and cause contraction of the heart muscle and pumping of blood.
opsyn
Thought you might be interested in this:
New guidelines suggest that people over 60 can have a higher blood pressure than previously recommended before starting treatment to lower it. The advice, criticized by some physicians, changes treatment goals that have been in place for more than 30 years.
Until now, people were told to strive for blood pressures below 140/90, with some taking multiple drugs to achieve that goal. But the guidelines committee, which spent five years reviewing evidence, concluded that the goal for people over 60 should be a systolic pressure of less than 150. And the diastolic goal should remain less than 90.
Systolic blood pressure, the top number, indicates the pressure on blood vessels when the heart contracts. Diastolic, the bottom number, refers to pressure on blood vessels when the heart relaxes between beats.
The committee, composed of 17 academics, was tasked with updating guidelines last formulated a decade ago. Their report was published online on Wednesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association.
Hypertension experts said they did not have a precise figure on how many Americans would be affected by the new guidelines. But Dr. William White, president of the American Society of Hypertension, said it was a huge number for sure. He estimated that millions of people are over 60 and have blood pressures between 140 and 150. Under the old guidelines they would need medication. With the new ones they would not.
Dr. Paul A. James, chairman of the department of family medicine at the University of Iowa and co-chairman of the guidelines committee, said, If you get patients blood pressure below 150, I believe you are doing as well as can be done based on scientific evidence.
The group added that people over 60 who are taking drugs and have lowered their blood pressure to below 150 can continue taking the medications if they are not experiencing side effects.
But, it cautioned, although efforts to lower blood pressure have had a remarkable effect, reducing the incidence of strokes and heart disease, there is a difference between lowering blood pressure with drugs and having lower pressure naturally.
Medications that lower blood pressure can have side effects that counteract some of the benefits, said Dr. Suzanne Oparil, co-chairwoman of the committee and director of the vascular biology and hypertension program at the University of Alabama at Birmingham School of Medicine. For that reason, maximum benefits may occur with less intense treatment and higher blood pressure.
The mantra of blood pressure experts in the past has been that lower is better, Dr. Oparil said. Recent studies dont seem to support that.
For example, two Japanese studies in older people found that those who reduced their systolic pressure to less than 140 fared no better than those who reduced it to between 140 and 160, or between 140 and 149.
We have this notion that if we can get blood pressure to normal, we will have the most health benefits, Dr. James said. Thats not necessarily true.
For people younger than 60, the goal remains blood pressure under 140/90. But the committee decided to keep that target because it could not find rigorous studies that established systolic blood pressure goals for younger people.
When blood pressure guidelines were first formulated in 1977, the committee only looked at diastolic pressure. People thought systolic should be 100 plus your age, Dr. Oparil said. That was old folk medicine.
As people began living longer, she said, observational studies concluded that systolic pressure was a better predictor of consequences like strokes. Researchers began to test the effects of lowering systolic blood pressure, but their studies tended not to include younger people because they were looking for outcomes, like strokes or heart failure, that are more common in older people. As a result, there are no good studies showing that younger people benefit from taking drugs to achieve a particular systolic pressure.
Some experts not on the committee say that the blood pressure guidelines are based on limited science studies did not specifically test the effects of getting blood pressure below 140/90 but that this does not mean that goal should be abandoned.
When I discuss this with my colleagues and friends in the community, most are pretty livid, said Dr. George Bakris, director of the hypertension center at the University of Chicago. Is this the golden age of Sparta? What is going on?
The old blood pressure targets made a huge difference in patients health, said Dr. Marvin Moser, a hypertension expert, who was chairman of the first blood pressure guidelines committee in 1977 and a member of the six committees after that, but not of the most recent one.
Why mess with something that works? Dr. Moser asked.
The thing about hypertension is that it is a dull disease, but the results of treatment are spectacular, he said. The incidence of strokes has fallen by 70 percent since 1972, and heart failure rates have fallen by more than 50 percent.
It used to be that every third or fourth hospital bed had someone with hypertension in it, Dr. Moser said. Today it is very rare to find someone with malignant hypertension that is, dangerously high and uncontrolled blood pressure.
It is inexpensive now to treat the disorder, Dr. Moser added, because 90 percent of blood pressure drugs are available as generics.
But, Dr. James said, the drugs do have risks, and for some people it may be better to take fewer drugs or lower doses. Many older people have a variety of chronic illnesses and take multiple medications, which can interact and potentially cause harm, he said.
Some people, too, end up with blood pressures so low when they stand that they get dizzy.
A lady who gets dizzy and falls and fractures her hip thats a terrible thing, Dr. James said.
The guidelines committees paper is accompanied by three editorials, two of which praise the process and note the rigor with which the group assessed evidence.
The third by Dr. Eric D. Peterson of Duke University, Dr. J. Michael Gaziano of the VA Boston Healthcare System and Brigham and Womens Hospital, and Dr. Philip Greenland of Northwestern University said that the committees focus was too narrow and that it should have considered evidence that fell short of randomized, controlled clinical trials.
Were not starting from square one, Dr. Gaziano said in a telephone interview. Weve got a history of how to manage patients. The bar for changing that should be pretty high.
The three doctors also wrote that, on the question of whether the absence of evidence for a benefit means there is no benefit, the committee drew inconsistent conclusions.
For people older than 60, most committee members reasoned that the absence of evidence for the benefits of systolic pressure below 140 meant the goal should be revised to less than 150. But for younger people, they reasoned, the lack of evidence was not a sufficient reason to change the old treatment goal.
Dr. Bakris said that the committee was merely proposing guidelines, and that doctors should continue to use their judgment.
These are not stone tablets of Moses, he said.
But, the writers of the critical editorial noted, doctors today are expected to follow performance measures.
Half of people taking drugs do not achieve the current goal of blood pressure under 140/90, and the writers expressed concern that with the new, more lenient target, patients blood pressures would edge even higher.
The guidelines had a difficult history. The committee began its work under the auspices of the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, a division of the National Institutes of Health. Then, when the group was almost done, the institute said it was getting out of the guidelines business and handed the task over to the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association.
Committees working on other guidelines for cholesterol levels and lifestyle went along with that decision, but the blood pressure committee refused.
We felt there was an urgency in bringing out our guidelines, Dr. Oparil said.
So they struck out on their own.
Yet, for all the urgency the committee felt, they still trailed the cardiology college and the heart association, which published their guidelines last month. The committees paper will appear in print in The Journal of the American Medical Association in January.
see http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/health/blood-pressure-guidelines-can-be-loosened-panel-says.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=1&adxnnlx=1387407685-3m7vv8iAZ2Zoc74T+US5bg
New guidelines suggest that people over 60 can have a higher blood pressure than previously recommended before starting treatment to lower it. The advice, criticized by some physicians, changes treatment goals that have been in place for more than 30 years.
Until now, people were told to strive for blood pressures below 140/90, with some taking multiple drugs to achieve that goal. But the guidelines committee, which spent five years reviewing evidence, concluded that the goal for people over 60 should be a systolic pressure of less than 150. And the diastolic goal should remain less than 90.
Systolic blood pressure, the top number, indicates the pressure on blood vessels when the heart contracts. Diastolic, the bottom number, refers to pressure on blood vessels when the heart relaxes between beats.
The committee, composed of 17 academics, was tasked with updating guidelines last formulated a decade ago. Their report was published online on Wednesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association.
Hypertension experts said they did not have a precise figure on how many Americans would be affected by the new guidelines. But Dr. William White, president of the American Society of Hypertension, said it was a huge number for sure. He estimated that millions of people are over 60 and have blood pressures between 140 and 150. Under the old guidelines they would need medication. With the new ones they would not.
Dr. Paul A. James, chairman of the department of family medicine at the University of Iowa and co-chairman of the guidelines committee, said, If you get patients blood pressure below 150, I believe you are doing as well as can be done based on scientific evidence.
The group added that people over 60 who are taking drugs and have lowered their blood pressure to below 150 can continue taking the medications if they are not experiencing side effects.
But, it cautioned, although efforts to lower blood pressure have had a remarkable effect, reducing the incidence of strokes and heart disease, there is a difference between lowering blood pressure with drugs and having lower pressure naturally.
Medications that lower blood pressure can have side effects that counteract some of the benefits, said Dr. Suzanne Oparil, co-chairwoman of the committee and director of the vascular biology and hypertension program at the University of Alabama at Birmingham School of Medicine. For that reason, maximum benefits may occur with less intense treatment and higher blood pressure.
The mantra of blood pressure experts in the past has been that lower is better, Dr. Oparil said. Recent studies dont seem to support that.
For example, two Japanese studies in older people found that those who reduced their systolic pressure to less than 140 fared no better than those who reduced it to between 140 and 160, or between 140 and 149.
We have this notion that if we can get blood pressure to normal, we will have the most health benefits, Dr. James said. Thats not necessarily true.
For people younger than 60, the goal remains blood pressure under 140/90. But the committee decided to keep that target because it could not find rigorous studies that established systolic blood pressure goals for younger people.
When blood pressure guidelines were first formulated in 1977, the committee only looked at diastolic pressure. People thought systolic should be 100 plus your age, Dr. Oparil said. That was old folk medicine.
As people began living longer, she said, observational studies concluded that systolic pressure was a better predictor of consequences like strokes. Researchers began to test the effects of lowering systolic blood pressure, but their studies tended not to include younger people because they were looking for outcomes, like strokes or heart failure, that are more common in older people. As a result, there are no good studies showing that younger people benefit from taking drugs to achieve a particular systolic pressure.
Some experts not on the committee say that the blood pressure guidelines are based on limited science studies did not specifically test the effects of getting blood pressure below 140/90 but that this does not mean that goal should be abandoned.
When I discuss this with my colleagues and friends in the community, most are pretty livid, said Dr. George Bakris, director of the hypertension center at the University of Chicago. Is this the golden age of Sparta? What is going on?
The old blood pressure targets made a huge difference in patients health, said Dr. Marvin Moser, a hypertension expert, who was chairman of the first blood pressure guidelines committee in 1977 and a member of the six committees after that, but not of the most recent one.
Why mess with something that works? Dr. Moser asked.
The thing about hypertension is that it is a dull disease, but the results of treatment are spectacular, he said. The incidence of strokes has fallen by 70 percent since 1972, and heart failure rates have fallen by more than 50 percent.
It used to be that every third or fourth hospital bed had someone with hypertension in it, Dr. Moser said. Today it is very rare to find someone with malignant hypertension that is, dangerously high and uncontrolled blood pressure.
It is inexpensive now to treat the disorder, Dr. Moser added, because 90 percent of blood pressure drugs are available as generics.
But, Dr. James said, the drugs do have risks, and for some people it may be better to take fewer drugs or lower doses. Many older people have a variety of chronic illnesses and take multiple medications, which can interact and potentially cause harm, he said.
Some people, too, end up with blood pressures so low when they stand that they get dizzy.
A lady who gets dizzy and falls and fractures her hip thats a terrible thing, Dr. James said.
The guidelines committees paper is accompanied by three editorials, two of which praise the process and note the rigor with which the group assessed evidence.
The third by Dr. Eric D. Peterson of Duke University, Dr. J. Michael Gaziano of the VA Boston Healthcare System and Brigham and Womens Hospital, and Dr. Philip Greenland of Northwestern University said that the committees focus was too narrow and that it should have considered evidence that fell short of randomized, controlled clinical trials.
Were not starting from square one, Dr. Gaziano said in a telephone interview. Weve got a history of how to manage patients. The bar for changing that should be pretty high.
The three doctors also wrote that, on the question of whether the absence of evidence for a benefit means there is no benefit, the committee drew inconsistent conclusions.
For people older than 60, most committee members reasoned that the absence of evidence for the benefits of systolic pressure below 140 meant the goal should be revised to less than 150. But for younger people, they reasoned, the lack of evidence was not a sufficient reason to change the old treatment goal.
Dr. Bakris said that the committee was merely proposing guidelines, and that doctors should continue to use their judgment.
These are not stone tablets of Moses, he said.
But, the writers of the critical editorial noted, doctors today are expected to follow performance measures.
Half of people taking drugs do not achieve the current goal of blood pressure under 140/90, and the writers expressed concern that with the new, more lenient target, patients blood pressures would edge even higher.
The guidelines had a difficult history. The committee began its work under the auspices of the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, a division of the National Institutes of Health. Then, when the group was almost done, the institute said it was getting out of the guidelines business and handed the task over to the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association.
Committees working on other guidelines for cholesterol levels and lifestyle went along with that decision, but the blood pressure committee refused.
We felt there was an urgency in bringing out our guidelines, Dr. Oparil said.
So they struck out on their own.
Yet, for all the urgency the committee felt, they still trailed the cardiology college and the heart association, which published their guidelines last month. The committees paper will appear in print in The Journal of the American Medical Association in January.
see http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/health/blood-pressure-guidelines-can-be-loosened-panel-says.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=1&adxnnlx=1387407685-3m7vv8iAZ2Zoc74T+US5bg
I read this article. There is much disagreement.
I went to my electrophysiologist today. BP was the typical 110 over 70. She said that was ok too. I don't get dizzy. My heart rate (resting) was 72. No problems (other than afib). She said still no exercise limitations. I do 5 miles a day as I feel better when I do. I don't run hard any more. I get my HR up to 130 or so. That's about it.
petey
I've done fine w/o bp meds.
I hadn't seen the studies, Thanks for posting!
Such happy news! B4 afib I always had low BP, but due to the metabolic syndrome it has spiked. And many seem to go by the 119/79 guideline. Today I took my BP on one of those machines at the GIANT....121/75. The machine identified that as "At risk." Will keep trying to lose weight and see if the BP spikes stop. Congrats yoga on being taken off the meds! Good for you!
Bill
Great numbers. Glad to hear that you are doing so well.
Just curiuos if your resting hr is 72 and you are persistent and can get hr up to 130 and then I presume recover fairly quickly to rhr then do you even need daily rate control but rather use rate control more as a pip. Are you able to feel hr when it is 130.
I am used to doctors disagreeing especially when it comes to afib.
I wonder if doctors adopt these new guidelines then will that impact future chads scores. Would someone today who is being treated for hypertension and therefore be assigned a point not be assigned a point in the future because he/she no longer requires drugs.
I always found the Hypertension factor in chads somewhat ambiguous - for example, do you get a point if you had hypertension in the past but not now.
According to wikipedia you get a point if blood pressure is consistently above 140/90 mmHg (or treated hypertension on medication). Not really sure what consistently means; a lot of people have white coat hypertension and their pressure is normal outside of dr office - so what does consistently mean in this case.
Given that today's h in chads according to wikipedia consists of one of 2 criteria then it technically may not make a difference if drug guidelines are changed. However, when I go to a new doctors office and fill out the medical forms and they ask if you have an illness like hypertension it means being treated and not what your numbers are.
opsyn
Blood pressure changes several times during the day. I have been worrying about my b.p. being so high because of anxiety. My cardiologist and my PCP don't want to do anything about it, as it has been documented over many years that when I am under stress it spikes. I even e-mailed both my Drs. about it rising and they said not to worry, it is stress as sometime it is only 102/70. I had a computer scam pulled on my yesterday which has caused so much stress and lack of sleep, so today it is very high. This has been happening to me since in my 20's, up and down. So now,, I am waiting for it to
come down (hopefully). My pcp wrote me back and said that the
sotalol I am taking is a beta blocker and shoud help ( I thought it was just for ryhthm). I get so confused since the A-Fib started. They told me to quick taking it so often as the more I stress over it the higher it goes. I think I need to try and exercise more like I used to before a-fib, also I am using Resperate which relaxes me and has brought it down on occassion - just started a few weeks with it. I get so
depressed as I was so active and healthy previous to a-fib. My
husband and I fly to Dallas this Friday to spend Christmas with one of my daughters and one of my sons is able to come. My husband wants to move to Fl. where our oldest daughter lives, and I love Co.
He is adamant as we don't have any family here, but there would be the house to sell, get rid of some of the furniture, etc. and moving
expenses and we don't have the money we used to have due to my husband's business failing because of the economy (used money trying to safe it. So this is adding stress for me.
Anyhow, I hope all of you have a wonderful Holiday Season and thanks for supporting me, always. Hugs,
Christine
My BP was rarely over 140/90 but my previous PCP prescribed BP pills. I follow "less is more" in regards to meds. I decided to get off BP pills 2 1/2 years ago. My PCP agreed saying a little higher BP was better than chancing a fall.
Since going off BP pills I no longer experience dizziness or lightheadedness during AF episodes. During AF episodes my BP drops pretty low at times.
Annette