Atrial Fibrillation (AFib) Support Group
Atrial fibrillation (AF or afib) is an abnormal heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmia) which involves the two small, upper heart chambers (the atria). Heart beats in a normal heart begin after electricity generated in the atria by the sinoatrial node spread through the heart and cause contraction of the heart muscle and pumping of blood.
Hi,
I'm new here and I am looking for people who have been told by doctors that their afib was idiopathic and that there is no reason for them to have this condition. It just happened!
I want to know how it started.
The progression of the condition.
Where are you at today.
Here is my story in a few paragraphs:
My condition started 28 years ago now. I was a young lad in the army. Top shape, no medical issues, no more stress than the next guy. Then at 25 years old I went through some stressful times and I developed PVCs. Well I think we all know about these thing and how they suddenly announce them selves in our lives.
So I went through a bunch of tests in the army and always was told that they were benign and not to worry about them. easier said than done. Never the less I had them on and off for about 20 years. Then I did a few tours in shitty places with kids at home and that apparently would be where the anxiety started.
Of course the PVCs now were PACs and PVCs with bout of PVCs in the row but nothing I couldn't handle. Then in 2005 I got medically discharge following an incident in theater. I started to work for the feds immediately and got a little .....lets say out of shape.
Up until then this were good except for the bad dreams, stress no more than the next guy and a little anxiety I guess. One night, I was doing stationary bike after a stressful day and a full stomach shortly after dinner and that's where I had my first Atrial Flutter attack. It lasted over 5 hours and they got me back into NR with medication.
Needless to say that earned me a trip to the cardio. There again I got a friendly tap on the shoulder, a few test and no restriction. Then it happened again, got me some solalol and aspirin low dose. After a few years I was getting episodes here and there and the sotalol dosage was getting stronger until the point I was to the maximum dose (240 mg twice a day.
When on max solatol and still had attacks, I won a visit at the EP. Nice guy told me it was easy to cure with an ablation. Underwent the ablation on 18 May 2011 and on the 19 May 2011 I was back at hospital in afib for over twelve hours and I reverted to NR only after ...you guessed it! More sotalol.
I have been on solalol since thin and now recently following a little stress (no more than other times really) I go a few afib episodes. Since I don't f@#$ with the puck! I won myself another visit to the EP and will get an ablation on the other side. More to follow I guess.
Now what I find particular in all this is I never had more stress or anxiety than he next person and now I get the crazy nights (cuz it's ALWAYS at night between 11:00 hrs to 03:00 Hrs) fill with bouts of PVCs and PACs and they seems to trigger the afib if I stay laying down. As soon as I sit up it stops. During those bouts my heart beats is maybe 10 to 20 BPD faster than normal (normal is 54 to 60 BPM is my normal) and as soon as I lay dow it immediately starts again (PVCs and PACs up to ying yang and if I stay too long laying down BOOM! comes the afib.
So this is in a nut shell what is going on. Doctors have no ideas why I have that and frankly...they don't care about PVCs and PACs and when I tell them how it starts, they don't seems to believe me.
Anyone else have similar stories? I train regularly, I'm in good shape, I don't drink coffee, alcohol or do drugs. What gives?
Thx for listening.
Scooby
I'm new here and I am looking for people who have been told by doctors that their afib was idiopathic and that there is no reason for them to have this condition. It just happened!
I want to know how it started.
The progression of the condition.
Where are you at today.
Here is my story in a few paragraphs:
My condition started 28 years ago now. I was a young lad in the army. Top shape, no medical issues, no more stress than the next guy. Then at 25 years old I went through some stressful times and I developed PVCs. Well I think we all know about these thing and how they suddenly announce them selves in our lives.
So I went through a bunch of tests in the army and always was told that they were benign and not to worry about them. easier said than done. Never the less I had them on and off for about 20 years. Then I did a few tours in shitty places with kids at home and that apparently would be where the anxiety started.
Of course the PVCs now were PACs and PVCs with bout of PVCs in the row but nothing I couldn't handle. Then in 2005 I got medically discharge following an incident in theater. I started to work for the feds immediately and got a little .....lets say out of shape.
Up until then this were good except for the bad dreams, stress no more than the next guy and a little anxiety I guess. One night, I was doing stationary bike after a stressful day and a full stomach shortly after dinner and that's where I had my first Atrial Flutter attack. It lasted over 5 hours and they got me back into NR with medication.
Needless to say that earned me a trip to the cardio. There again I got a friendly tap on the shoulder, a few test and no restriction. Then it happened again, got me some solalol and aspirin low dose. After a few years I was getting episodes here and there and the sotalol dosage was getting stronger until the point I was to the maximum dose (240 mg twice a day.
When on max solatol and still had attacks, I won a visit at the EP. Nice guy told me it was easy to cure with an ablation. Underwent the ablation on 18 May 2011 and on the 19 May 2011 I was back at hospital in afib for over twelve hours and I reverted to NR only after ...you guessed it! More sotalol.
I have been on solalol since thin and now recently following a little stress (no more than other times really) I go a few afib episodes. Since I don't f@#$ with the puck! I won myself another visit to the EP and will get an ablation on the other side. More to follow I guess.
Now what I find particular in all this is I never had more stress or anxiety than he next person and now I get the crazy nights (cuz it's ALWAYS at night between 11:00 hrs to 03:00 Hrs) fill with bouts of PVCs and PACs and they seems to trigger the afib if I stay laying down. As soon as I sit up it stops. During those bouts my heart beats is maybe 10 to 20 BPD faster than normal (normal is 54 to 60 BPM is my normal) and as soon as I lay dow it immediately starts again (PVCs and PACs up to ying yang and if I stay too long laying down BOOM! comes the afib.
So this is in a nut shell what is going on. Doctors have no ideas why I have that and frankly...they don't care about PVCs and PACs and when I tell them how it starts, they don't seems to believe me.
Anyone else have similar stories? I train regularly, I'm in good shape, I don't drink coffee, alcohol or do drugs. What gives?
Thx for listening.
Scooby
You need to get one of those vibrating recliners that you can relax in and sleep in.
petey
Your experience is certainly not uncommon among us afibbers.
To the OP's question - for me it started when I was in my early 20s (39 now). I went undiagnosed for the longest time (I was less of a fan of doctors than Hwkmn), finally the frequency and intensity of my arrhythmia forced me to start seeing cardiologists.
I was treated with beta blockers for several years with gradually increasing doses until, like you, I reached the max. In February of this year, I had a cryoablation. In June of this year, I had an RF ablation. So far so good on ablation #2. No arrhythmia at all so far.
To me it sounds like your afib has a lot to do with the stimulation of your vagus nerve. It's right next to your heart and if it is stimulated the right way, in some people, it can trigger arrhythmias.
My triggers are eating heavy before bed. too much coffee, to much
wine and some times to much stress.. Sometimes I can get away with some of these things but I have learned to be very careful.
ddr posts, "Hwkmn for yet another modern-medicine-bashing post that has nothing to do with the OP's question. We get it. You're not into doctors."
They dont care, and dont believe me, was what I responded to, not a troll here and certainly not a basher.
Not Into doctors? No, I think you have it all wrong. Im into health care, not disease managers. Im into Cardios such as Wolfson, Mandrola and a few, very few others. His ablation didnt work, as more fail then work, fact that seems to be hidden by the special interest groups who set up phony sites with claims of 80% success rates. You are correct about one thing, I am a minority here and one who has my afib under control without meds, nary an aspirin or advil, or ablation which exposes patients to 50 times the radiation a normal person should have.
Now if I have been dishonest on this site, then my all means, have me kicked and banned. But first I will ask anyone here the last time you went to the Disease managers, that they withheld meds and sought the real cause, as you just stated, the vagus. FYI, they would laugh you out of the cardio unit with that remark also.
Thanks for the replies.
pacyetep: I totally agree with you. There has to be a root cause otherwise I would not have that condition. so ? = Lone afib. I read in previous posts that you have been in afib for quite some times now. I can only guess that you don't feel it or very little..
Paul: One ablation, same for me. The second is yet to come (if it does) as I intend to see if my magnesium and potassium lvls are in order and I will check with the EP why the sudden change within only a few months. How often do you have attacks if you take no meds? how long do they last and ow do you stop them....and if you know; what are your triggers. Do you have a known underlying cause?
hkwmn: Thanks for the reply and I respect and understand your point of view. Some people sometimes have bad experience with the medical system and its back bones $. No prejudice here...only respect. I know first hand how it can be frustrating when one falls through the system cracks especially when it's overcrowded and saturated with back ups. I live in Canada and living in a free health care environment sometimes make doctors even colder and they will tell you off right away. I lived it and it was not a good experience when you don't even have time to talk and explain your symptoms that you already have been tagged and numbered. But there are only a few of those and often they only had a bad day. See I can see any doctors at no cost....so if I am not happy with doctor A I go see doctor B. In the state...well if I would pay 200$ for a 10 minutes consultation and all I would get is foot powder when I have a headache I would be frustrated too. lol
duder: I'm envious that you are afib free and I hope it will last for a life time. I had an ablation in 2011 and I never has flutter episodes since. So I guess there are some hope on that front. Still at the end of the day I would rather live with it if I only know people who live with it and got use to it (white noise) I would have so many questions for them. I also think it is a bit odd that it got bad all of a sudden and going from 4 years with absolutely nothing to mega PVCs/PACs & and about 6 bouts of afib in less than 2 months and it ALWAYS start at around midnight and last intil 3 or 4 AM then BAM! nothing! not even PVCs and sleep like a baby. Then it starts over the next day on and on and getting worse by the weeks. hmmmmm it is frustrating.
missd: I only wish I knew my triggers. The only thing I can say for sure is when I have night episodes I always feel bloated and I often have cramps. Then it goes away with the palpies. I will ask my doc but.....they are si scared of touching the subject. But I will sure mention all that when with the OP. For my GP, I will only ask for certain tests.
My AFIB frequency. My last AFIB burden reading (the percent of time I'm in AFIB) was 10.8 percent (I have an implanted monitor). However, my episodes have been much milder since my ablation. Let's say I feel them about 2-3 times a month, but they are no longer debilitating. My episodes tend to occur at night. A large meal or eating late will set me off. So will overwork and stress. I'm going for another sleep apnea test next week. Today I did some waterproofing in the basement, the paint fumes set off my AFIB.
Triggers... one of our favorite topics.
A blood serum test for magnesium is misleading at best. 99% of the magnesium in your body is stored in your cells, not in blood or serum, so testing it there will likely show that your levels are fine, even if they're not. Your body will even rob your cells of Magnesium to maintain a normal serum level.
I've grilled my doctor, I've done a lot of research papers reading, interacted in forums like this one, and so far, I cannot find the answer. A potential clue is that it tends to run in my family on my mother's side. Mother had it (I believe), her father had it, her brother had it, a cousin (same family side) has had some minor issues... I asked an EP once about this and he said heredity isn't a very strong factor but it becomes stronger if the ancestor had afb early in life - by the 40s and I suspect but not sure that my mother may have had it in her 40s.
From my research readings, there seems to a growing understanding of what, electrically, goes on during afib and aflutter - a fairly good understanding of the rotating electrical rotors and reentry circuits and spiral waves but there seems to be a very poor understanding of what triggers it to begin.
In the last two months I have read more about afib that in the past 4 years. I had one attack in May 2011 and nothing ever since. That is until 14 July 15 for some reason I woke up at night with a large amount of PVCs and PACs and then went in afib for 5 hours. Since then it as been afib 2 to 3 time a week. Only at night when I sleep between 10:30 to 03:30. I think I had aftershocks due to the stress and anxiety it caused me. (I'm sill anxious and stressed about it....not sure why...I'm on aspirin and the attacks are short lived....I know it isn't gonna kill me....weird)
I never have it in the day. Not even PVCs....only between those night hours. Someone mentioned Vagal issues. I read an interesting study about Vagally Mediated Paroxysmal Afib. I sounds a lot like what I have....to the details. I will sure mention it to the EP and get a holter done to make sure it is Vagally induced....they can say for sure by the way it starts.
I also google the 2015 Annual afib presentation by Dr. John Day and others and found that pretty interesting. It can be a serious condition but it is manageable with medication and lifestyle change which reduce risks drastically.
My biggest concern is will I able to keep working if I get in afib full time. Seems like a no brainer for those who don't feel it but I DO feel mine. My symptoms is like if someone is constantly playing drums in my chest. No pains or any other discomforts excepts taking a deep breath once in a while.
I just wonder if I would be able to sleep like that or will I need sleeping pills. I wonder if it eventually becomes just white noise. Maybe when tired enough
I think it's like if you loose a leg and you get an artificial one instead. It takes some times, you have to get use to it, and it will never be the way it was but eventually it becomes your normal.
Thx
Scooby
Since it sounds like your afib might be connected to your vagus nerve - next time you have an episode, try a few good coughs. This stimulates in the vagus nerve and, in some people, can halt an episode (it can also cause one). You can also try bearing down using the muscles in your chest and abdomen (like you're having a bowel movement). These may or may not work for you, but they're free, so it's worth trying.
Keep us posted.