There are many people who have failed ablations that don't have bad habits or weight problems. It turns me off with the doctors who blame their failures on the patient. The doctors I see always say "you are obviously in great shape..." Okay, I didn't have an ablation, but I haven't really seen that people who have had failed ablations have any lifestyle issues. Dr. Mandrola started this type of thinking and it's spreading.

petey

Doctors dont get paid as dieticians and should just stick to diagnosing and treating. NDs treat the whole person and wont tell you to just quit certain foods/drinks, but will adjust other things to fit your lifestyle. I for one do not believe that any food/drink/lifestyle is solely responsible for AF as much as the number one killer, Stress. My golf buddy at 65 and 2 ablations drinks gin and tonic at every tee box and tips in at 75 overweight with sleep apena, no Afib. Id play around with alcohol if you want to drink, maybe a light beer, water with booze etc. We cant stop living just because we have a condition that isnt fatal.

Thanks Petey. I now officially belong to the 2x failed ablation group. I measure failure in that I still have a-fib (somewhere between 30 and 50% of the time) AND I am now taking a class III antiarrhythmic drug. I have normal weight and exercise when I can. I have specifically asked my doctors if there are any lifestyle changes I can make to remedy the situation . They couldnt think of any unless I wanted to start smoking so I could quit (I politely declined).

Its difficult being thrown into one pot. Who knows, its possible that Dr. Mandrola puts so much weight on lifestyle because the majority of his clientele fall into the category of overweight, drinking, smoking, pizza eating, non-exercising people. We all know that there are many different reasons why someone can get a-fib, lifestyle and thyroid issues being two which can easily be managed and show substantial results. But there are other reasons, too.

Take care,
atp

Good points made by all. The last time I was at my Cardiologist, I expressed regret to him. I told him that I wished I had taken better care of myself when I was younger. He asked me to explain my feelings. I told him that when I was younger, I didnt eat right, I rarely got enough rest, allowed stress to rule my world, rarely drank enough water, didnt exercise enough and smoked cigarettes in the past. He started to laugh and said "You just described a very large part of the population. If that were true, they would ALL be walking around in Afib". He went on to explain that while lifestyle is very important for good health, those that are going to get Afib wil likely get Afib because they are pre-disposed to the condition in the first place. Bill, I agree with you on the wake up call thing. Since being diagnosed with Afib 4 years ago, I have never been healthier. I made changes to my lifestyle that clearly improved my quality of life - no smoking, I exercise regularly, I let stress go, I make a point to get enough rest, I drink water all day long and am mindful of my diet. All these changes didnt make my Afib go away but making these changes made me feel better, happier and stronger. I have a healthier body to weather what life throws at it. My main goal is to keep heart disease away. My father died at 53 of cardiac arrest due to CAD. He was a young man. He didnt have time or the opportunity to stop in his tracks and take better care of himself. He was out of time before he knew he was in trouble.

I was not a smoker enjoyed a few drinks now and then, but generally ate a decent diet. At times a true health food nut and tried every supplement to help me feel better. Always watched my weight but was never truly thin. I have exercised faithfully since I was young, skied, hiked and walked until until I had some severe foot issues. Now stress was another story have and still jhave more of my share.

Not going to eat bad or quit taking care of myself but I feel lifestyle is only part of the issue. I will continue to be heart healthy as it just seems the smart thing to do.

laurab

I am sure the chemo and radiation did not help but I still have afib. The only real trigger I have found is salt, even had a glass of wine and found afib was so minor would not call it a problem.

In my experience, ( RN worked in primary care for 20 years) there are 3 kinds of patients. The ones who change to live a super healthy lifestyle, the ones who make some good changes and struggle with others (most people), and the ones who think medicine is a quick fix and a pill or surgery is the answer. Many people take no personal responsibility for their health....I've seen it frequently and it is frustrating for healthcare workers.
Lifestyle certainly plays a role in alot of illnesses, and living a healthy lifestyle is very important to the best outcome possible once you have an illness. The thinking that afib can be impacted by lifestyle is fairly new I think. So perhaps some of those ablation patients were given the impression that lifestyle wasn't a factor.

I'd lived a relatively unhealthy lifestyle up until the last few years. Up until 2011, I smoked cigarettes, and until just the past few months, I drank heavily, and basically ate anything I wanted. I lived the good life. Then last August my cardio said, "you've got afib".

For the past 6 months, I've not had a drop of alcohol or caffeine, have started exercising again (when afib will allow), and have started the DASH diet. Despite all of this, my afib is more of a burden now than it ever was.

The lifestyle changes I've made weren't an effort to make my afib disappear. If that's what wound up happening, so much the better, but the main reason I made those changes is that I might live a little longer. When doctors start talking to you about afib and strokes and INR and brain hemmorage and CHF when you've been able to avoid doctors all your life, it makes you examine your own mortality.

While it's possible that my early lifestyle choices caused my afib, it's also equally as plausible that they had nothing to do with it, and that I would have wound up with afib no matter what.

The old thinking with afib is that once you have afib, you have afib. And "afib begets afib". Doctors often don't do a very good job addressing lifestyle. The first advice I received about afib was to avoid alcohol and don't smoke. Not very helpful since I didn't smoke and maybe have 1 drink a couple times a year. My cardiologist really didn't address diet or exercise. When I finally saw an EP he counseled me about diet and exercise and weight loss. But still the emphasis was on drugs or ablation. Most patients are left on their own to figure out how to make these lifestyle changes.
Bill....was any counseling about diet and lifestyle required before you had the ablation and entered the study?

Marikay,
As I was talking to the EP nurse, I think she was trying to convey the same idea you expressed (about personal responsibility).. It must be frustrating for a nurse, doc, or EP to put in the effort to try and help a patient and then they make ZERO effort to help themselves. I much prefer a Doc to say "Hey dummy, make these changes!" over one who would have the attitude "Hey, cashed my check, do what you want." If you are a caring person, and I know this EP nurse to be very caring, then it just has to be frustrating. I don't think she was making any judgement on lifestyle pre-ablation, she was just saying that the EPs are not happy with folks who went through the ablation process and then went right back to their old ways. And Dr. C I know has expressed both verbally and in writing that obesity is one cause for ablation failure. So I can see where there would be frustration after an already obese patient goes out and gains another 50 pounds without making any effort to lose weight. I know I personally am in your second group. I stopped drinking alcohol, cut WAY down on caffeine, and exercise every day, but am still struggling with eliminating Big Macs and DQ. All we can do is the best that we can, but again, I think her reference was to the type of patient that got the ablation and went "Yahoo, back to the buffet and the liquor store!"

Bill

Marikay,
To be honest with you, I don't really recall them giving any counseling on lifestyle I had a conversation with Dr. C about my crappy eating habits and alcohol intake, so I realized that changes needed to be made, but to be honest, I don't recall any real officialguidance on lifestyle changes. This site has been the source of most of my info on that subject (and my wife, who is an amazing researcher). It sounds like they are now considering implementing some kind of guidance for patients. It certainly would be a great idea.

Bill

Dr. Mandrola had some afib attacks. I think maybe 2. That was when he was in college (I believe he said) and he was overweight and had some bad habits. Then he lost weight and started biking. Now that is a huge part of his life. He "wants" to believe being a super athlete will keep him from any other occurrences. That is his agenda. He posts a lot on the subject of weight and eating habits now to the point of nausea. While I think being in great shape would help ablation success, I don't think it would cause an ablation to fail if you were 5-10 pounds overweight.

When I was his age I was running every day and was pulling down sub 18 minute 5Ks without trying. I lifted heavy. I was so ripped at 55 I remember 2 kids looking at me at the beach like they just saw the hulk (actually, I wasn't that big, just really ripped)... and then I heard one of them say (with a chuckle), he must lift weights (as they imitated what they thought the hulk would sound like and laughed). Back then it was a game for me as I felt it was a good obsession.

A few years later, I cut back to jogging and light weights/more reps as I thought it was more appropriate as I was reaching 60. I still did many miles a day, just slower. Sometimes I walked 10 or more miles along the boardwalk. One time I walked from Ocean Township, NJ to Brielle, NJ about 17 miles. My wife called me to ask where I was. She showed up in Brielle to give me a ride back. I declined. I wanted to do it just to say I did it. I was about 60.

I like Dr. John and we have emailed each other. He even asked if he could use some of my quotes for his blog. Nice guy. I have seen Dr. Calkins at Johns Hopkins. Gotta love the guy. Unassuming, smart, and patient friendly.

Dr. John is 51. Dr. Calkins is 58. They are both in great shape (though Dr. Calkins had on a Dr. outfit, so I couldn't get an exact BMI :-) . but to them I say, particularly to Dr. John... "You young whippersnapper, wait till you're my age! Then will see what tune you're singing!" :-)

"Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
La la la la..."

petey

I meant "then WE will see"...

I've tried to lead a healthy lifestyle for most of my life. I was a bit chubby as a child but past age 11, I was slim and pretty physically active. During my teen years, I was outside after school with other guys and gals playing touch football, basketball etc. During my adult years, I did quite a bit of jogging, bike riding. Not really long trips but biked around town. Also swim fairly often. All moderate exercise. In my late 50s, I don't jog much anymore as my knees tend to whine but I continue to bike when I can, swim, walk fast, and hike when I get to mountains. I watch my diet, am slim, eat lean foods, lots of fruits and vegetables. Rarely eat pizza - (not a big fan of it anyway). Almost never drink alcoholic bevs - maybe a small glass of wine or champagne once or twice a year.

And yet - I got hit with afib three times since Dec 2013. And twice with aflutter. My dr has put me through the myocardial perfusion test and echocardiograms - both turned up completely normal with only a mild mitral valve regurgitation which the dr. unequivocally said is not a factor. Now taking the smallest dose of flecainide twice a day. Didn't really expect cardiac issues with my lifestyle but here I am...

For those who have normal heart structure, the cause of afib is unknown. They can describe electrophysiologically what is happening but they don't understand what triggers it. It seems to have less to do with the person's lifestyle than other factors - which I suspect to be uncontrollable by the patient.

I funny thing. On another afib support group, I discovered someone lived in my hometown. He apparently ran for decades... and is the Race Director for the Town Run and other races. Hmmmmmm.

I agree with Petey's initial response. It seems even with the best procedures and optimum adjustments some individuals are still challenged with this condition. All the best to all in 2015.