Atrial Fibrillation (AFib) Support Group
Atrial fibrillation (AF or afib) is an abnormal heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmia) which involves the two small, upper heart chambers (the atria). Heart beats in a normal heart begin after electricity generated in the atria by the sinoatrial node spread through the heart and cause contraction of the heart muscle and pumping of blood.
Some background...Sept 2013 started a slow carb diet that consisted of eating eggs,veggies,beans, nuts, and meat (chicken breast and fish mostly) 6 days a week and whatever I wanted on the 7th. I lost 35 pounds 4 months (going from 275 to 240). I've maintained this weight on the same diet since then. I also got off one HBP medicine and reduced another one in half). I also take synthroid for a low thyroid and lipitor because a CRP blood test was showing irritation.
January 2014 I was stressing out over some things and started noticing my heart beating weird every so often. In April I went on a 30 day holder monitor and they diagnosed me with paroxysmal afib. I had an echocardiogram and everything showed as okay. My chads score is a 1 (have HBP which is controlled) so they put me on aspirin and 25 mg of metoprolol tartrate twice a day. This worked for awhile although i still went into afib a couple times a month for a while and then it would go away, always within 12 hours.
At then end of 2014 it started happening more frequently and in January I told my regular doctor during my BP checkup that it was happening almost daily by now. He had me double my metoprolol to 50 mg 2x a day and came back in a week to make sure my BP was okay (and it was). The 17th I ate a bad hamburger apparently and spent 6 hours that night vomiting. I noticed some afib near the end but it seemed to go away after I took my metroprolol when I was sure it would stay down. Monday night I noticed Afib again at 7 PM and this time it didn't go away. I tried taking extra metoprolol as instructed which didn't work. I'm wondering if the sickness is what pushed it over the edge.
In hindsight I should have gone to the ER or DR on Tuesday but I tend to be stubborn with that kind of stuff and it always went away before. I called the cardiologist Wednesday morning because I knew 48 hours meant something and asked if I should go to the ER. They had me come into the office, verified I was in afib, and then basically said they couldn't trust my diagnosis that it started Monday at 7:00 PM. So I'm on Eliquis for 28 days until they cardiovert me. I'm also having a chemical stress test Wednesday because they never did one previously.
Sorry for my life story...Now my questions:
1) Has anyone else been on a low carb diet that caused Afib? I take Magnesium and Potassium supplements because I know those can get low on the diet. People at work keep telling me my diet must have caused it, but I've had numerous blood tests and everything (including thyroid) always has been normal. I don't plan on quitting it because I assume weighing less is better than weighing more and most of what I eat is healthy.
2) Most people in PAF seem to have episodes a few times a year. Did anyone else have it weekly or more like I did ?
3) In looking at the arrhythmia medicine it sounds like the success rate drops if you are in persistent afib vs PAF. I assume I'm now considered persistent. Was anyone else in a similar situation? My fear is even if it works it's just going to happen again since it happened so many times over the past year.
4) Am I also at less chance for ablation to work now that I'm "persistent" ?
Sorry for the long post..."talking" about it helps. I tend to get SAD (seasonal affective disorder) in the winter anyways so this isn't helping matters. I should also point out that other than feeling tired and a little out of breath sometimes, I wouldn't even know I'm in afib at the moment. I think more of what I'm feeling (sad, depressed, no motiviation) may be the doubling of the metoprolol that hopefully I'll get used to.
January 2014 I was stressing out over some things and started noticing my heart beating weird every so often. In April I went on a 30 day holder monitor and they diagnosed me with paroxysmal afib. I had an echocardiogram and everything showed as okay. My chads score is a 1 (have HBP which is controlled) so they put me on aspirin and 25 mg of metoprolol tartrate twice a day. This worked for awhile although i still went into afib a couple times a month for a while and then it would go away, always within 12 hours.
At then end of 2014 it started happening more frequently and in January I told my regular doctor during my BP checkup that it was happening almost daily by now. He had me double my metoprolol to 50 mg 2x a day and came back in a week to make sure my BP was okay (and it was). The 17th I ate a bad hamburger apparently and spent 6 hours that night vomiting. I noticed some afib near the end but it seemed to go away after I took my metroprolol when I was sure it would stay down. Monday night I noticed Afib again at 7 PM and this time it didn't go away. I tried taking extra metoprolol as instructed which didn't work. I'm wondering if the sickness is what pushed it over the edge.
In hindsight I should have gone to the ER or DR on Tuesday but I tend to be stubborn with that kind of stuff and it always went away before. I called the cardiologist Wednesday morning because I knew 48 hours meant something and asked if I should go to the ER. They had me come into the office, verified I was in afib, and then basically said they couldn't trust my diagnosis that it started Monday at 7:00 PM. So I'm on Eliquis for 28 days until they cardiovert me. I'm also having a chemical stress test Wednesday because they never did one previously.
Sorry for my life story...Now my questions:
1) Has anyone else been on a low carb diet that caused Afib? I take Magnesium and Potassium supplements because I know those can get low on the diet. People at work keep telling me my diet must have caused it, but I've had numerous blood tests and everything (including thyroid) always has been normal. I don't plan on quitting it because I assume weighing less is better than weighing more and most of what I eat is healthy.
2) Most people in PAF seem to have episodes a few times a year. Did anyone else have it weekly or more like I did ?
3) In looking at the arrhythmia medicine it sounds like the success rate drops if you are in persistent afib vs PAF. I assume I'm now considered persistent. Was anyone else in a similar situation? My fear is even if it works it's just going to happen again since it happened so many times over the past year.
4) Am I also at less chance for ablation to work now that I'm "persistent" ?
Sorry for the long post..."talking" about it helps. I tend to get SAD (seasonal affective disorder) in the winter anyways so this isn't helping matters. I should also point out that other than feeling tired and a little out of breath sometimes, I wouldn't even know I'm in afib at the moment. I think more of what I'm feeling (sad, depressed, no motiviation) may be the doubling of the metoprolol that hopefully I'll get used to.
2. I have afib episodes almost daily, with varying intensity.
3. Meds have a tendency to lose their effectiveness over time. It doesn't happen to everyone, but enough that it's a known thing.
4. A lot of that depends on your EP and how skilled he/she is. Its true that persistent and permanent afib patients have less chance of success with an ablation, but that doesn't mean that there's zero chance of success.
Sorry you had to join our merry little band, but if you follow the threads, you'll find many of us are in similar situations. A few points.
1: Please put your age in your profile, the responses you get will vary greatly with your age;
2: There are a few members here who have reported starting with AFIB or increasing their AFIB frequency as a result of dietary changes or losing a lot of weight...weight change==stress.
3: Both high blood pressure meds and metoprolol can knock you out, make you tired etc.
4: Many of us with AFIB experience shortness of breath.
5: Some of us have or have had AFIB episodes several times a week.
6: Aspirin is no longer recommended as an anticoagulant for AFIB see: http://www.stopafib.org/newsitem.cfm/NEWSID/412/, you are better off with the Eliquis. I was on aspirin for 5 years when I had my AFIB stroke.
7: I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you are in persistent AFIB, you haven't tried rhythm control drugs or ablation yet.
8: Yes, the success rate of treatment goes down a bit with age and the longer you've had AFIB (I had it about 40 years before I had an ablation). However, treatments can reduce the impact that AFIB has on your life and reduce the afib "burden". I still have AFIB, not as bad as before.
I'm sure other's here will comment, hang out and learn. Watch out for our weird sense of humor here -g-
My cardiologist removed me from the lisiniprol for HBP when he upped my metaprolol to 50 MG 2x a day because my BP was 100 over 60 when I saw him last week. I bought a home BP monitor and I've been in the right range since I quit it.
I tend to be a bit obsessive compulsive so when something like this happens I scour the internet and make my own diagnosis instead of letting the doctor do his job. (I call myself a lazy obsessive compulsive...I'll check the stove and door a few times at night but checking 10 times is too much work.)
Some of you mentioned having many episodes still...do you still go in for a cardioversion every time it lasts 24 hours or something like that? Or does it go away on it's own even after you had it for days\weeks ? The medical documentation seems to be more cut and dried...like once you're in it for a few days it's not going to go away on it's own. Maybe that isn't the case.
Personally I have never had a cardioversion, my episodes tend to last less than 24 hours (both now and before my ablation). However, I had passed out several times and wound up in the ER before my ablation.
People seem to experience the severity of their events differently, age and general health may be a factor in this. A stress test will look for structural issues with your heart. The choice of further meds would be influenced by the results of the stress test.
Moving from where you are to a more stable state might take some time, some research, a handful of doctors appointments and tests. It's a journey. This is not something that is solved overnight, but it can be improved.
Congratulations on your weight loss! Many of us have seen more episodes when switching to a healthier lifestyle especially with a fast weight loss. but it does get better so stick with it, you will be so much better off in the long run all the way around. Make sure you are getting enough magnesium and other nutrients, very important to supplement if you are not eating enough veggies and such, Being on a diet can sometimes make it hard to get what we need, Good luck and keep us posted.
I also forgot to mention that last year when I had my first episodes they sent me to the sleep DR and I was diagnosed with mild to severe (I think) sleep apnea. (I think my AHI was 16 with a high of 60 on my back.) So I've also been using a CPAP machine since July or August. What's odd is that it took months and months for the my AHI to get down to where it's conistently below 5 (which is considered no apnea). After they fixed the obstructive sleep apnea my stats I ended up showing with central sleep apnea. The sleep dr said it sometimes takes time and he was correct...it has continuously gone down.
What's strange is the better the CPAP was working the more frequently my AFIB episodes occurred. Probably just a fluke.
Low carb I would not believe would be the culprit, If you mean low carb by not eating wheat, thats a good thing, but I would load up on the good cooked greens with your meats. Alcohol, coffee and chocolate would be best to limit or avoid, seem to provoke afib some.
The triggers are many, but not definitive. The meds dont always keep you out of AF but may control your rate to docs liking.
Gosh you mean I wasnt the only knucklehead that waited more than 48 hours, 72 to be exact, to be cardioverted? Of course I didnt make it the 28 days, after 14 Id had enough and went for the throat scope and cardioversion. Youll find that doctors with this condition go way over board on treating. Not disagreeing totally with that, but my INR wasnt good, but absolutely no clots and cardioverted back that lasted 2 and half years AF free.
Yeah, love the labels they lay on us with AF. Persistent was mine I guess for 14 days, and the word from Cardio that I would be on meds forever and have Afib all the time. After 3 months free of it, I dropped the meds and they labeled me Paroxysmal. Fancy label for , "We have no effing clue why or how you go into Afib".
Am I helping yet? lol.
No Im not drunk...Yet.
For now, take the thinners, get out of jail as soon as its safe. Find a good doctor, and find a better alternative doctor/ND/Kinesiologist, etc. Dont limit yourself to the allopathic conventional way. Meds may work, but at your age, thats a long time to be on them.
Ablations a possibility, but gosh , this is our first date, isnt it a little soon for that? Make sure you research that good. If you are persistent, which I m doubting you are, just a guess because I wore that label for a few weeks once, ablations can be trickier.
As for SAD, that is serious and may be related so get that treated also. No AF isnt going to help, but look on the bright side, most of us didnt get a cancer report or worse, and we got our hearts checked out good. Some have found some serious issues with their hearts after AFib diagnosed. Be thankful and most of hopeful, AF itself isnt fatal. Cheers.
I too was told I may have apnea. Refused the test and cured myself of sleep issues. Its quite simple,. but thats another story. Whats interesting is the better your sleep got, the worse the Afib was!! CPAP is like turning a vacuum cleaner backwards and forcing air down your pipe. Not a very natural way to cure a serious issue IMHO, but hey, theyre the experts right?
Ok mark one big trigger off the list. Bottom line, CPAP doesnt cure AF, and those with OSA dont all have AF. But, sleeping on my left side trigger Afib every time.
I'm still relatively new at this, so you can take anything I say with a grain of salt, and I hope others will chime in to correct me if my thought process is wrong.
I was told I was in afib during a surgery six or seven years ago, but when I went to the cardio and had follow up tests, nothing showed up so they let me go merrily on my way, continuing on my beta blocker I was on to treat my hypertension.
During the next few years, I started low-carbing and lost 100 lbs. My primary care doc took me off the beta blocker, as my blood pressure was dropping too low now that I had shed the weight.
Then, in summer of 2013, I had another surgery resulting in questionable EKG tracings and more in-depth testing, and have been diagnosed with afib and another tachycardia. I have no symptoms, so I don't know how often I've been in afib over the years.
I'm wondering if maybe the beta blockers we take to control hypertension are actually keeping our heart rates down, and keeping symptoms at bay for those who would otherwise have them. You said you reduced your blood pressure meds after losing weight--maybe that is what caused you to notice the afib, rather than low-carbing that caused you to have afib.
Good luck figuring all of this out.
However....ive started taken my BP when I get up and go to bed. So tonight I take it and I notice the blinking heart showing the pulse sure seems to be consistent. Pulse comes back as 71 with no irregularity! (The irregular heartbeat thing didnt always show up when in Afib but the rate would in the 90s) Do it again and same thing. My wife listens and says it sounds normal. So I think Im in NSR. it could go away before I can see Dr on Monday but Im relieved that maybe Im still Paroxysmal and not persistent. Maybe it was the cold I was fighting that caused it to stay longer.
Now for a funny story. (at least to me)..Dr gave me 5 weeks of Eliquis and called in a prescription so I could "see what it costs.". That made me wonder so I looked on the internet and saw things like $600 a month. I talked to benefits at work and they said our plan covers some of it but I need the Dr to call expressscripts and verify why or they wont cover any of it. Meanwhile I saw on this forum that Eliquis has a $10 copay cArd so I signed up for that. So my plan was to tell the Dr when they called me with stress test results that I needed them to call expressscripts. I was in no rush because I have three more weeks and was relieved that it was going to be okay cost wise. I never mentioned this to my wife. So Im sitting at work Friday and my wife texts me "I was at Rite Aid and they had a prescription for you so I picked it up.". NOOOOOOOOOO. I immediately asked her what it cost expecting the worst. She said $40. So the Dr must have already called them but for a second I was afraid Id just wasted hundreds of dollars by not talking to my wife enough.
Im still not sure why the dr didnt mention the $10 copay...youd think they would tell their patients. I never would have known if not for browsing thru this discussion board.
Here in NJ Eliquis is about $300 / month if you have to pay yourself. On my drug insurance its $50 for 3 month supply, but you need to get 3, 30 day supplies at $25 / month, before they spring for 3 month supplies.
The Eliquis $10.00 plan runs until the end of 2015. If you have a membership number, bring it to your pharmacy to see if you are eligible. If your drug plan ties in any way to Medicare part 'D', you wouldn't be eligible (I'm not eligible). There are other restrictions, check with your pharmacist ($10 a month is better than $40 / month) before you fill anther prescription.