Why ask why? I started AA believing that my AA group was my higher power. Here sat a group of people who had been where I was, and in some cases even worse. And sure as I type this they were sitting there, sober, happy, joyous and free. It's not a question of why? It's a matter of how. What are you willing to do today to change. Don't pick up a drink, go to meetings, start working the steps with a sponsor and go from there. It took us many nights, weeks, months and years to become alcoholic...healing does not come in one day. Take your time make a commitment, one day at a time...and see what happens.

P.S.- Chapter nine? Slow down...find a home group and a sponsor, and start at step ONE....I believe being of maximum service to "God" is to get sober, and try to help others. My advice...don't make a mountain out of a molehill. You can't look at or change the past. You can't look ahead to the future. LIVE for today, make small changes each and every day...don't overwhelm yourself with the "what if's".

Where do you see hope. Is it within your self. Have you ever made a heart to heart connection with someone? That in itself is spirituality. For many if not most it was understanding that I needed to make a connection with winners. I also had to stop looking for what was wrong and look at what was right. My spiritual side has grown as my connection to others increased. I had to set aside what I thought to make room for what I didn't know. I had to become teachable (humble). 18 years later I have quite a good life.

LOL you sound like my brother.........here is a thought............on a molecular level we are the universe......... all the components are part of us.

from the beginning of "man" we have always been looking for answers. it is the nature of things. find comfort in that which makes you smile.

as for Curtis (GOD).......it is choice.......play a game of chess or opt out to enjoy a sunset.

either way, there is a greater force hugging our souls that no one can truly explain. i think it has something to do with heart and belief.

i won't get into the theory of attests'......they rebut faith, yet they live by there own "faith"..........LOL

You kind of have to set this in the context within it was written. These people had never really experienced anything other than the Judeo-Christian idea of God and that's why the words are capitalised - it was the custom at the time and still is in some places.

My sponsor is an atheist but has recovered through AA. I have sponsored many women who did not believe in God, some did go on to have some belief in God, but many just came to find a path that was right for them. I am a Christian but I do not see it as my job as a sponsor to convert my sponsees, they WILL find their own path and that's what is meant to happen.

bill and the others tried to make the thing as open as possible but these guys had limited experience. Accept it is what it is and allow yourself to see beyond that stuff - you can because so many others have.

Maybe pm nickyj18022002 as she is an atheist and will happily tell you her experience.

Whatever you do, don't give up!

I feel like the other steps are wonderful. Why are AA meetings in churches? Why did they conclude the meeting that I went to with the lord's prayer? I just stood there, not saying it with the others. The reason I ask so many questions is same the reason I don't believe in god. I don't just believe what I'm told without scientific proof. For example: Why are their ancient egyptian stories of a prophet born to a carpenter and virgin mother on 12-25,crucified and risen-- the stories preceded jesus by hundreds of years. Why was Mary a virgin after she was married?( the story of her virginity didn't come out for many years after she died.) etc. I can't just accept this stuff because other people believe it.

My take on it is that we talk about what we know. The guys who wrote the big book were Christians and therefore when they wrote about spirituality they used language etc which reflected that. Who knows if AA had first originated in the east it might refer to buddha all the way through, if they had been muslim, allah etc. The spiritual concepts might have been expressed along more buddhist lines, muslim lines etc.

The book is certainly not about religion, the references to god are the name for a higher power that they were most familiar with.

The book is about living spiritually not living according to a certain religion and spiritual principles are pretty universal across all religions and spiritual philosophies.

My spiritual path is most closely aligned with buddhism and I have been able to take the steps, have a spiritual experience and stay sober without belief in god or any deity.

The point of the 12 steps is to bring about a spiritual awakening and they will do that if we take them. It will be the right awakening for us, the right path, the right spiritual door opened. We are then free to practice our spirituality in any way we choose whether through a religion or not.

As long as we are willing to open our minds to power outside that of our own power/ self will and to be open to change and a spiritual way of life then that is all we need.

It can work for you, dont let the god word put you off. There is a whole spiritual life awaiting you and it will be the right one for you.

PS, I'm not trying to put down other's beliefs. I'm just explaining why I'm finding this difficult. Also, do you have to do the steps in order? Could I do the nonreligious part first and then the rest if it comes to me more willingly later on?

You do have to do the steps in order as each one relies on what has gone before. Really they are not religious and there is no spiritual part and none spiritual part. Together they make up the path to a spiritual awakening, they are all spiritual.

So my prayer would go something like this,"oh great and dear mass of molecules, I'm turning my life over to your sweet molecular mist of wisdom. Please remove my shortcomings with your molecular power. I will pray to you for knowledge of your molecular will." Not trying to be a ass, but that's what it would be like.

Good Orderly Direction my way has been the path of destruction. I will accept the teaching of this Group Of Drunks to lead me to a better understanding of how to live life on lifes terms without alcohol.

How's that for a change?

Not necessarily but you can have a philosophy that leads towards the scientific. Do you believe that there are laws and principles that govern the universe? Do you believe in evolution and that humans have evolved to have group instinct, compassion, kindness etc in order to best serve continuation of the species as a whole? That we are stronger if we live according to natural instincts and are fit for purpose than if we live in a way that goes against nature and survival of the species? Do you believe that you are made only of ego and thought or that there is another essence of you - a spirit or soul say - that can connect to others and gives you a humanity outside of the narrow confines of self and ego?

These are just a few thoughts to illustrate that there are many ways to conceive of a power outside of our own ego driven self will that do not require belief in a deity or god.

Happy to talk more if you want to PM me. It is quite hard to explain my spiritual philosophy to you as I got it by experience and it is a constantly evolving thing but I am happy to try and help if I can.

I should add that there is a challenge in considering the program and spirituality in a way that it is different from belief in a god. It makes it less easy to follow the crowd and just take things for granted because that is the way that they are seen.

But it is a fantastic journey. I have found it so exciting to discover and explore a whole different way of thinking and my spirituality seems so much more valuable to me because of the struggles I have had to get it.

Trying to forge a spiritual path and identity might not sound attractive but really it has been a very cool thing to discover who I am and how I see the world.

If you prefer a theory of molecules as the organizing force of all things then that's all that is necessary to start. As long as you believe that there is something greater than yourself that has the power to move or change things.

You have a lot of questions, it's normal for many questions to arise along the way, just keep them in mind and you'll get an answer to each eventually. Promise!

Just keep doing the Actions that are suggested in each Step. Not only will your questions be answered but you will gain new insights and deeper understanding of yourself and others.

Keep going!

God has nothing to due with my drinking.