The first problem with stats in recovery is having an agreed on definition on what recovery is, which you point out in your post.

The second is that many studies that people quote do not have a control group -- a group NOT using AA or SMART or whatever, to account for the percentage of people who just quit on their own.

I have also seen and heard 5-10% recovery rate (per year), for people in programs and also for people who quit without self help groups or professional counseling rehab.

As you say, that can be a prickly one. I look at the rate as it pertains to me. If I'm sober, then my rate is 100%. It isn't any of my business what others may be doing and how successful they are, comparing my insides with their outsides. I know what works for me, not the guy sitting next to me.
I figure if it works for you - keep using it. If not, move on along and try something else. Don't stop till you find the key to unlocking your sobriety. It will be worth the pain...

Hugs,
Dennis

Yes, choose a goal in regards to drinking and any method or combination of methods that works to achieve that goal and run with it.

The important thing for me is to stay motivated. I lean heavily toward the rational and counseling. This makes sense for me as having bi-polar requires me to remain very grounded in reality...Others find a more spiritual approach effective. There are so many ways to go it can be very confusing for me too. I have to stay with it to get to the place I want to go...As Denny said It is worth the pain...

Hello DebbieDays,

Maybe you are getting bogged down in unnecessary detail instead of going with the flow. If something, be it SMART or whatever works for you then why worry about the statistics?

I would personally be a bit wary of any guy who finds it necessary to talk about other programmes rather than his own. Is he getting his excuses in early by claiming that every programme has only a 5% recovery rate?

From my own personal experience of going to AA meetings for over six years I can see a pretty high success rate. How do I define success? Well, there are those who go to meetings and never drink again and those who have an occasional relapse but who are sober pretty much all of the time so compared to where they have been, I would say that those people are very successful. There are also those who have not only quit drinking but who use the AA programme of recovery to bring about big changes for the better in their lives. By any yardstick I would consider those people to have successfully recovered from alcoholism. There are no statistics held by/on AA members so anyone who claims that AA has only a 5% success rate is well, to put in plainly, misguided or telling lies.

On the question of defining success or recovered I cannot point you to any sources. What is important to me is that the obsession of the mind that drove me to take the first drink is gone. Alcoholics who have had that obsession removed are often described as having recovered from alcoholism. Take care not to confuse recovered with cured. The physical component of alcoholism will always be present and regardless of how long an alcoholic is sober, that one drink is likely to lead him or her back to alcoholic hell.

Thats my take on it anyway and if the can of worms gets opened up again as it does periodically, I will not be debating the pros and cons. Thankfully, I dont need to drink today and the statistics dont matter.

Apples to apples comparisons are almost impossible to find. For one thing treatment ( short term) and recovery ( long term) are two very different things. When has one become "successful?" Six days sober? Six weeks? Six years?

I don't know what the stats are and --- although you are asking for them --- they don't concern me.
I havent had a drink since March 27, 2011. My sponsor hasnt had a drink for 30 years. My sponsor's sponsor hasnt had a drink in 37 years.
My sister can't get a year in NA or AA. I know several women in my home group who have been newcomers (e.g. can't stay sober) pretty much the entire time I've been there. So does AA work? It does for me and that's what I'm focused on a day at a time.

Does Smart, or therapy, or doing it on your own work? I don't know. I've never had success in the later two. But I'm sure that there are people that all three work for.

Question I have is why do you want to know the stats? That might help direct you to the right sources of info.

True that AA does not keep statistics so it would be difficult for anyone to state the rate of successful recovery in that program.

I can only go by what has worked and not worked for me.

What didn't work: individual counseling; reading self help books (my favorite- "the EASY way to control rinking"); and white knuckling it myself.
What has worked for me: AA meetings, a sponsor and following the program that has worked for thousands of other alcoholics.

That is not to say I've tried SMART or other programs- I just got to AA next in my path and it has worked. And, I would add it has worked through some pretty challenging things in my life since I stopped on July 5th of this year.

Whatever your path, the fact that you are concerned about this and seek help, it says a lot about your eventual success.

I wish you peace.
Peg

I think what exjersey said pretty much sums it up.

If you want to stop and are looking for a program, all of us can tell you what worked for us but the choice is up to you. I think all the programs work as long as you follow them.

Why not discuss them with your doctor who can give you a better idea, of what may or may not be suitable for you.

Good Luck!

Thanks guys!

I guess I thought my question was going to be an easy one that has been asked/answered before, and as simple as getting some links to a previous thread or outside link to the scientific studies, medical journal articles, or something along that line.

So far, from looking around different sites, the most I found was: "From a scientific perspective, the effectiveness of all support groups is unproven. The only way to answer that question is to attend meetings from all available groups, and reach a personal conclusion about the best approach to recover." (taken from SMART Recovery website)

This doesn't begin to answer my original question as I was looking to see the comparison of research done on the effectiveness of different Tx methods, not just to compare one type of group Tx to another group Tx.

I will keep looking around some more and if I happen upon some reliable looking research, I'll come back and stick it in this thread in case anyone else has ever wondered as well.

In rsp to DennyGene & PJ54 & all,

The guy I met with had a pretty good message. The context of him explaining that "all programs have a 5% success rate" was that it really doesn't matter which route you choose, all are equally likely to have similar success rates. However if you want to ensure that you are in the 5% successful portion of any Tx program, you should put more importance on finding something that you believe in and you believe is a good fit for yourself.

Which pretty much seems to be the consensus around here I'm guessing? That each person is finding their own way in some regard and figuring out what is the best fit for themselves.

The reason I ask at all...
While I'm on here in search for information regarding my own recovery and working on evolving my own direction of things, I do like to have data when possible to add to the mix in guiding my own course. Also, I am finding myself interested in the idea of recovery in general. I have found lots of tools around here from folks threads, and many things that I'd like to share with others who I feel may benefit. I work with other people in healthcare and I appreciate an evidence based approach to lend me credibility and to guide others that are not me. I think having reliable data, whenever/if it is available, is a useful guide while trying to decide what is right for anyone's situation and should be used alongside any insight on what an individual's specific needs are as well.

Bottom line: So I guess when people are talking about "do what is right and what works for you," part of me doing what is right for me actually includes evidence based reasearch whenever possible. Of course, I will move forward and work with what knowlege I have at the moment. I do find all of this very helpful.

(I may even go back to another of that guy's meeting with some prepared questions. He seemed well studied on the things he was sharing and likely will possibly know his sources)

Thank you all!!

SAMSHA has some statistics and research results of studies on addiction over the years and can probably provide other links for more information. 12 step programs focus on total abstinence as the criteria for success. We celebrate every day of sobriety (a day clean is a day won). There are various levels of use, abuse, and dependency. Defining success would depend on an individuals goals. (ie. staying clean until I get off of probation, cutting down). I'm an addict, so success for me is staying clean and not minding :) I do this by practicing the 12 step program as a way of life. Statistics speak to results. My personal experience speaks to the results AA, NA, and CA have shown in my life (total abstinence and peace of mind). Please hear me when I say that DESIRE is the greatest determinant in success. With desire, all one has to do is follow good orderly direction. I found my answers in 12 step programs (recovery maintenance), after treatment (to stabilize). Hope that helps.

I have a friend who went through rehab 20 years ago who often talks about this. He is the 5%...the only one from his peer group still alive.

Hard to pigeonhole...if it was something you could bottle and give away there would be a lot less of us suffering and a lot more of us still going.

What always makes sense to me is that I have to be in the small number of folks who get some recovery...the desire comes from within, the honesty comes from within, the effort comes from within. I have to be accountable myself and noone can do it for me...

Most of the folks I know got and stayed sober in AA, or at least tried it along the way...but many folks failed too. Doesn't matter...personal recovery and sobriety had to become the only statistic that mattered...

I find it comforting to know the path I'm walking worked for many others and they stuck around long enough to show me how to do it...that helps I think, one good thing about this community too :)

P

Correction: SAMHSA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration.

In early sobriety I was told 1in 100 make it.

This kind of got me pissed off and made me work harder for it

I ve always liked a long shot...

1is2

Well all I know is from my own experience. Without the fellowship of AA i would not be sitting here sober as a judge (if there are any sober judges :)

I'm sorry that the statistics are so dreary - they do not reflect my experience.