Alcoholism Support Group
Alcoholism is the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, even when it is negatively affecting your health, work, relationships and life. If you think alcohol is causing you to lose control, it's time to seek help. Our group is a safe place to vent, check in, get back up if you fall, and reach sobriety.
Thefreedomtorecover
I was recently having a conversation with someone in which I told him a bit about my journey and he made a conclusion about it that I had to debate regarding the title of this post. For those of you who have read the book and most of my blogs, it might have some redundancy but it also covers some, what I think anyway, interesting new ground.
He said;
But what I get out of your story is that the abuse of alcohol caused the addiction, and the effects of alcohol caused a depression. Once you removed the depressant, you were able to remove the addiction.
To which I replied;
I dont see it that way at all. Firstly I dont care for the word addiction all that much because it lends credence to the disease theory which I reject. Again I see it as a dependency and a choice.
I started drinking regularly at a fairly young age. It started at a New Years Eve party that my parents
were throwing. Me (12 at the time) and two of my buddies started by knocking down the remnants of peoples drinks and then liberated a bunch of beers and the near end of a few bottle of vodka, gin, etc.
I immediately loved the sensation and had the time of my life. My two friends both ended up vomiting all over the place and Im pretty sure it was a pretty long time before either one of the considered another drink. Not me, I woke up the next day a bit hung over but already knew that this was it for me and
Ill tell you why. I had severe social anxiety as a youth and now at the beginning-of the beginning- of puberty, it was getting worse. I attribute some of that to having been a premature baby and as a result I was late in developing and looked about 2-3 years younger than all of my contemporaries. They all seemed smarter, more confident and less self-conscious in a major way than I did. The booze more or less instantly took those inferiority complexes and put them on the shelf. It took me years to catch up
physically to all of my classmates and by that time, alcohol had become my method of dealing with
those less than feelings.
The alcohol didnt cause an addiction; it simply helped me cope with underlying self-image issues. They were there whether or not I used alcohol to deal with them. Starting so young of course was a disaster because I lost interest in everything else and therefore my development was even further delayed. I had little initiative in classes, didnt apply myself in artistic or athletic endeavors even though I showed great aptitude in both areas. I didnt mature with the sense of self-worth that I should have because I had nothing to
hang my hat on. These things would all come into play later in life when due to my poor choices (or lack of making choices in general) found me living a life that I didnt enjoy. I wasnt good at forming close intimate relationships because I didnt even have a good one with myself.
Depression did finally become a big part of the equation but really not until my mid 30s or so. Up until then, while I knew I hadnt lived up to my potential, I was OK with the idea that I was just your average (or so I thought) guy who hated his job, was in a semi-dead marriage (intimacy-wise) but who loved his
kids and having a good time (getting buzzed regardless of the activity). I honestly didnt think I was all that different or worse than any of my neighbors.
Finally my lack of interests, dissatisfaction with my profession, my marriage, etc finally grabbed hold and depression started to really creep in.
So again, I dont see it as the effect of alcohol as having caused this depression but rather at the poor choices and my inability to form an identity that was the true culprit. Booze just cam along for the ride to help me
initially avoid that responsibility and then later to make feel less shitty about having never done so.
I figured this crap all out in the weeks and months after I made the DECISION to put the bottle down and face it all.
After that post, I felt I left something out so I added;
Hey, I just wanted to clarify one thing. I wasn't trying to imply that the effects of alcohol don't contribute to depression because they certainly can and in more cases than not probably do. At the end of my drinking, I was hiding it, figuring out how to make sure I didn't run out of it, fearful because I knew my blood alcohol level could get me arrested in my car more times than not, it was oozing from my pours yet still tried to "cover it up" ,etc..... This kind of crap and living in this kind of a sneaky, dysfunctional and empty way almost can't help but add to any depression that might be present. The booze/depression relationship can very much be questioned from a chicken or the egg argument because they no doubt feed one another. So when I quit, a lot of those on the surface causes for being depressed, disappeared pretty much immediately. It was the other more deeply rooted issues that required some serious soul searching, education and realignment of my coping skills, thinking methodology and acceptance of the realities of the world.
Peace out,
Rolf
He said;
But what I get out of your story is that the abuse of alcohol caused the addiction, and the effects of alcohol caused a depression. Once you removed the depressant, you were able to remove the addiction.
To which I replied;
I dont see it that way at all. Firstly I dont care for the word addiction all that much because it lends credence to the disease theory which I reject. Again I see it as a dependency and a choice.
I started drinking regularly at a fairly young age. It started at a New Years Eve party that my parents
were throwing. Me (12 at the time) and two of my buddies started by knocking down the remnants of peoples drinks and then liberated a bunch of beers and the near end of a few bottle of vodka, gin, etc.
I immediately loved the sensation and had the time of my life. My two friends both ended up vomiting all over the place and Im pretty sure it was a pretty long time before either one of the considered another drink. Not me, I woke up the next day a bit hung over but already knew that this was it for me and
Ill tell you why. I had severe social anxiety as a youth and now at the beginning-of the beginning- of puberty, it was getting worse. I attribute some of that to having been a premature baby and as a result I was late in developing and looked about 2-3 years younger than all of my contemporaries. They all seemed smarter, more confident and less self-conscious in a major way than I did. The booze more or less instantly took those inferiority complexes and put them on the shelf. It took me years to catch up
physically to all of my classmates and by that time, alcohol had become my method of dealing with
those less than feelings.
The alcohol didnt cause an addiction; it simply helped me cope with underlying self-image issues. They were there whether or not I used alcohol to deal with them. Starting so young of course was a disaster because I lost interest in everything else and therefore my development was even further delayed. I had little initiative in classes, didnt apply myself in artistic or athletic endeavors even though I showed great aptitude in both areas. I didnt mature with the sense of self-worth that I should have because I had nothing to
hang my hat on. These things would all come into play later in life when due to my poor choices (or lack of making choices in general) found me living a life that I didnt enjoy. I wasnt good at forming close intimate relationships because I didnt even have a good one with myself.
Depression did finally become a big part of the equation but really not until my mid 30s or so. Up until then, while I knew I hadnt lived up to my potential, I was OK with the idea that I was just your average (or so I thought) guy who hated his job, was in a semi-dead marriage (intimacy-wise) but who loved his
kids and having a good time (getting buzzed regardless of the activity). I honestly didnt think I was all that different or worse than any of my neighbors.
Finally my lack of interests, dissatisfaction with my profession, my marriage, etc finally grabbed hold and depression started to really creep in.
So again, I dont see it as the effect of alcohol as having caused this depression but rather at the poor choices and my inability to form an identity that was the true culprit. Booze just cam along for the ride to help me
initially avoid that responsibility and then later to make feel less shitty about having never done so.
I figured this crap all out in the weeks and months after I made the DECISION to put the bottle down and face it all.
After that post, I felt I left something out so I added;
Hey, I just wanted to clarify one thing. I wasn't trying to imply that the effects of alcohol don't contribute to depression because they certainly can and in more cases than not probably do. At the end of my drinking, I was hiding it, figuring out how to make sure I didn't run out of it, fearful because I knew my blood alcohol level could get me arrested in my car more times than not, it was oozing from my pours yet still tried to "cover it up" ,etc..... This kind of crap and living in this kind of a sneaky, dysfunctional and empty way almost can't help but add to any depression that might be present. The booze/depression relationship can very much be questioned from a chicken or the egg argument because they no doubt feed one another. So when I quit, a lot of those on the surface causes for being depressed, disappeared pretty much immediately. It was the other more deeply rooted issues that required some serious soul searching, education and realignment of my coping skills, thinking methodology and acceptance of the realities of the world.
Peace out,
Rolf
Just an aside but for me anxiety always seemed my bigger issue, that's long gone too I am happy to say!
I do happen to believe I was born alcoholic, it's in my genetic makeup but that's just my opinion although I believe science has isolated the chromosomes but not the markers. But chicken or egg, science or no science what matters most to me is that I found recovery.
The abuse of alcohol caused my addiction, and the effects of alcohol made me depressed and anxious. Once I was able to break the addiction -- the physical and mental dependence on alcohol, my depression and anxiety lifted.
For the most part, my drinking caused my problems. I did not drink because of depression or to deal with life. I liked the high and kept it up until I craved it and had to have it.
I agree with you that it is chicken and the egg on cause and effect in a sense. A tangle of awfulness and stagnation fueled by vodka.
It is good to be able to untangle the mess and underneath the tangles rediscover who I am and find some joy and peace in life.
Yeah, everyone's experience is different. I know quite a few people who tell me that depression played no part in their "addiction" and that it was always just about the buzz and that over time it just got out of hand. While I totally get that some may not have had any major underlying issues to begin with, I would venture to surmise that by the time they reach the point that they feel the need to address their behavior, that there are "issues" of some kind otherwise there would be no impetus to change, right?
On the other hand, I am also absolutely sure that I am alcoholic, both physically and mentally and I would still be alcoholic if I didn't have the depression. They definitely fuel each other though.
http://www.asam.org/for-the-public/definition-of-addiction
As far as depsression, alcohol seems to depress many or at least it fuels their depressions. I know for me it fueled anxiety which in turn made me want to drink more to alleviate the very symptom it was causing. Odd.
Anyway there is alott of interesting stuff out there on addiction and on the effects of alcohol.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/you-illuminated/201006/your-brain-alcohol
For me I just know that to drink is to open the gates of hell. I choose not to pick up that first drink and go there. So there's the choice today;-) Like the movie trainspotting says I choose life:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qrG26-R__s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89UxQzSla4