Alcohol Recovery Without 12 Steps Community Group
This group was created to explore various recovery paths for Alcoholism. We generally chose to explore paths outside of the AA model, or ones which incorporate, but are not limited to AA. Anyone wanting to learn and explore how to become free from alcohol addiction are welcome. Our main goal is to support each other with compassion and decency, while remaining open minded...
MelisaDE
So the other weekend, I had one of my girlfriends call me crying saying that her hubby had yet again stayed out till 3 am, and wanted to know if we (me and Russ and a couple other mutual friends) would confront him...with her.
Because surprise-surprise he would always turn the situation around to make it her fault, or make the situation seem like she was imagining things.
I told her to meet me at my house after work, to talk... so got home from work and she came over.. and I talked to her for a while and then she sat down with Russ and asked him what he knows that she doesnt/didnt know about her husband.. i knew he knew alot more about her husband, about the secrets and lies he was keeping from her.. and keeping it from her was killing me... so I asked Russ to please please... just man up and talk to her...
Soo I left them alone and then another friend comes over and the three of them talk, after a while....she got up and said I am going to get Pete....
So I was nervous as hell then...
cause dang everytime...I would try to confront Russ it always turned out bad, so I was just anxious, nervous and just couldnât sit there or stand still.. so I cleaned...
Well I missed out on the first part of it... but walked in and.... everyone was talking, and telling him what they knew, and that he really wasnt hiding anything....
he just kind of sat there, and just pretty much agreed with everyone... and denied some of it...
and in the end.. I dont think it got us anywhere, and I know he isnt done drinking, or ready to change, and he will still hide it and..
I know he thinks he isnt doing anything wrong, and still doesnt think he has a problem.
In the middle of this discussion we had going on, one of the guys asked Russ....
What would of u done if Missy would of done this to u..
(this guy knew some of what Russ has done to me, cause I have asked for help and advise from him before, I had told him before that Russ would freak out on me, if he knew I had talked to him about "our problems")
Russ looked up at him.. and looked him in the eyes...
and said he would of freaked out... but not on them...
that he would of been calm and reasonable... with whomever was there....
and that he would of been calm and reasonable with those guys....
and then he would have waited till we were alone (me and him) and freaked out on me...
for letting someone know our business... our problems,
that it was no ones business but ours... and things would of gotten out of hand..
to yes.. he would of started a fight, slammed out of the house, got rip roaring drunk, come home .. fight some more... where the bad shit happens...
He freely admitted to his friends.,
that he abused me
Mentally,
Emotionally
and physically.
That every time...in his mind.... it was my fault,
... which then made it right in his mind...
to where he could justify to do what he did to me..
whatever that may be..
which ever form of abuse he would grace me with ...
which usually ended up being all 3.
I just sat there in shock...and I think my mouth was hanging on the floor,
I was dumbfounded..
I thought I was hearing things..
For the first time in MY LIFE...
in my life..
someone was admitting to me and others..
that they abused me,
that I wasnât crazy,
that i didnt make things up,
that these things actually did happen..
That my abuser..... had admitted.. freely and out in the open air.. some of the stuff he did...
He said to them....u name it, I have broken it...
I have called her names,
I have picked fights with her,
i have blamed her,
hurt her,
I have lied,
did anything possible to where it wasnt his fault, to where he was justified in doing the things he did.
Wow.. it knocked my ass right through a loop...
I didnt know what to say or do..
and actually I believe it knocked their asses through a loop to,
I dont think they even knew what to say...
I mean sure.. I told some of them .....what he did.. what he said.. to me..
they knew "my version" of things....
but I dont think they really ever believed it was "that" bad u know?
That everything I said was the truth and not just a little fabricated.
He actually formed the words, and said them out loud..
I wish I could of tape recorded it.
And ...
He still isnât drinking...he still is hanging out with the girls and me.. doing things around the house, he is still working....
Its weird ....
its hard getting used to having him around here..
Its hard having him here all the time, when I am used to doing things my own way, and I am used to the girls listening to me,
and I am used to pretty much just being alone.
and I know its gonna take time to trust him again...
But I thought admitting to the abuse was a big step.
He still has a lot, alot of work to do...
and I donât know if we will ever get there... Maybe we wont make it.
What I do know....
is that He is trying really hard with the girls ... almost to hard.. if u know what I mean..
He isnât all the time the parent.. he is trying to be their friend... he lets them get away with alot..
Which then I look like the bad guy, not letting them, and saying no .. it doesnt work that way..
and he is kind of letting them walk all over him sometimes.. and I have to keep reminding him, that he cant do that..
But he is trying... and he is getting alot of what he is doing right...
He just isnt used to being there..
and he isnt used to being a parent and responsible... it comes with time...
I didnt all of a sudden learn how to be a good mom.. I have had years... of doing it all by myself..
and he has just started learning..
that it isnt all easy and fun and games...
that it is hard work.. and things and problems dont run away without the alcohol...
That really they are all still there, and u cant run.
But he is also seeing the rewards of putting time and effort into the girls..
cause it shows, on their faces when they see him,
in their eyes,
in their voices when they talk to him, or hear his voice...
My god .. does it show...
It brings tears to my eyes... thinking of their faces...
They are excited to hear his voice, to show him what they did, to tell him what they did.
They arent scared of him anymore,
they arent scared to wake him up,
they arent scared when he walks in the door.
They are acting like children, how kids are supposed to act.
and that ...
that in itself..... means the world to me..
To be able to hear in my daughters voice.... how happy and excited she is to talk to her daddy,
means more than anything anyone could give me.
Thats what I have always wanted for my girls... that is what I always wanted to see....
is the light shining in their eyes, the laughter in their voice, the giggle that comes from the belly.
It may never work between us, we may never be able to get that back..
I dont know..
but to see them happy.. makes me overjoyed.. and makes me warm inside.. its unthawing me .. its making me "real" again...
and seeing what a difference he is making in their little bodyâs, in their eyes and their hearts..
makes me thankful for him..
makes me thankful for having him in their lives...
I couldnt say that... 2 months ago, that I was thankful for him...
I thank god.. that whatever happened that night/morning July 5th....or that week after....that made him start to change.. that made him start to want to change...
I thank god.. that he gave my little girls.. that light back into their eyes...
and I thank god, he gave them , and hopefully continues to give them the daddy they deserve to have.
Because surprise-surprise he would always turn the situation around to make it her fault, or make the situation seem like she was imagining things.
I told her to meet me at my house after work, to talk... so got home from work and she came over.. and I talked to her for a while and then she sat down with Russ and asked him what he knows that she doesnt/didnt know about her husband.. i knew he knew alot more about her husband, about the secrets and lies he was keeping from her.. and keeping it from her was killing me... so I asked Russ to please please... just man up and talk to her...
Soo I left them alone and then another friend comes over and the three of them talk, after a while....she got up and said I am going to get Pete....
So I was nervous as hell then...
cause dang everytime...I would try to confront Russ it always turned out bad, so I was just anxious, nervous and just couldnât sit there or stand still.. so I cleaned...
Well I missed out on the first part of it... but walked in and.... everyone was talking, and telling him what they knew, and that he really wasnt hiding anything....
he just kind of sat there, and just pretty much agreed with everyone... and denied some of it...
and in the end.. I dont think it got us anywhere, and I know he isnt done drinking, or ready to change, and he will still hide it and..
I know he thinks he isnt doing anything wrong, and still doesnt think he has a problem.
In the middle of this discussion we had going on, one of the guys asked Russ....
What would of u done if Missy would of done this to u..
(this guy knew some of what Russ has done to me, cause I have asked for help and advise from him before, I had told him before that Russ would freak out on me, if he knew I had talked to him about "our problems")
Russ looked up at him.. and looked him in the eyes...
and said he would of freaked out... but not on them...
that he would of been calm and reasonable... with whomever was there....
and that he would of been calm and reasonable with those guys....
and then he would have waited till we were alone (me and him) and freaked out on me...
for letting someone know our business... our problems,
that it was no ones business but ours... and things would of gotten out of hand..
to yes.. he would of started a fight, slammed out of the house, got rip roaring drunk, come home .. fight some more... where the bad shit happens...
He freely admitted to his friends.,
that he abused me
Mentally,
Emotionally
and physically.
That every time...in his mind.... it was my fault,
... which then made it right in his mind...
to where he could justify to do what he did to me..
whatever that may be..
which ever form of abuse he would grace me with ...
which usually ended up being all 3.
I just sat there in shock...and I think my mouth was hanging on the floor,
I was dumbfounded..
I thought I was hearing things..
For the first time in MY LIFE...
in my life..
someone was admitting to me and others..
that they abused me,
that I wasnât crazy,
that i didnt make things up,
that these things actually did happen..
That my abuser..... had admitted.. freely and out in the open air.. some of the stuff he did...
He said to them....u name it, I have broken it...
I have called her names,
I have picked fights with her,
i have blamed her,
hurt her,
I have lied,
did anything possible to where it wasnt his fault, to where he was justified in doing the things he did.
Wow.. it knocked my ass right through a loop...
I didnt know what to say or do..
and actually I believe it knocked their asses through a loop to,
I dont think they even knew what to say...
I mean sure.. I told some of them .....what he did.. what he said.. to me..
they knew "my version" of things....
but I dont think they really ever believed it was "that" bad u know?
That everything I said was the truth and not just a little fabricated.
He actually formed the words, and said them out loud..
I wish I could of tape recorded it.
And ...
He still isnât drinking...he still is hanging out with the girls and me.. doing things around the house, he is still working....
Its weird ....
its hard getting used to having him around here..
Its hard having him here all the time, when I am used to doing things my own way, and I am used to the girls listening to me,
and I am used to pretty much just being alone.
and I know its gonna take time to trust him again...
But I thought admitting to the abuse was a big step.
He still has a lot, alot of work to do...
and I donât know if we will ever get there... Maybe we wont make it.
What I do know....
is that He is trying really hard with the girls ... almost to hard.. if u know what I mean..
He isnât all the time the parent.. he is trying to be their friend... he lets them get away with alot..
Which then I look like the bad guy, not letting them, and saying no .. it doesnt work that way..
and he is kind of letting them walk all over him sometimes.. and I have to keep reminding him, that he cant do that..
But he is trying... and he is getting alot of what he is doing right...
He just isnt used to being there..
and he isnt used to being a parent and responsible... it comes with time...
I didnt all of a sudden learn how to be a good mom.. I have had years... of doing it all by myself..
and he has just started learning..
that it isnt all easy and fun and games...
that it is hard work.. and things and problems dont run away without the alcohol...
That really they are all still there, and u cant run.
But he is also seeing the rewards of putting time and effort into the girls..
cause it shows, on their faces when they see him,
in their eyes,
in their voices when they talk to him, or hear his voice...
My god .. does it show...
It brings tears to my eyes... thinking of their faces...
They are excited to hear his voice, to show him what they did, to tell him what they did.
They arent scared of him anymore,
they arent scared to wake him up,
they arent scared when he walks in the door.
They are acting like children, how kids are supposed to act.
and that ...
that in itself..... means the world to me..
To be able to hear in my daughters voice.... how happy and excited she is to talk to her daddy,
means more than anything anyone could give me.
Thats what I have always wanted for my girls... that is what I always wanted to see....
is the light shining in their eyes, the laughter in their voice, the giggle that comes from the belly.
It may never work between us, we may never be able to get that back..
I dont know..
but to see them happy.. makes me overjoyed.. and makes me warm inside.. its unthawing me .. its making me "real" again...
and seeing what a difference he is making in their little bodyâs, in their eyes and their hearts..
makes me thankful for him..
makes me thankful for having him in their lives...
I couldnt say that... 2 months ago, that I was thankful for him...
I thank god.. that whatever happened that night/morning July 5th....or that week after....that made him start to change.. that made him start to want to change...
I thank god.. that he gave my little girls.. that light back into their eyes...
and I thank god, he gave them , and hopefully continues to give them the daddy they deserve to have.
I think the diff of him stopping drinking this time, and wanting to believe and trust in it, the diff this time with him saying and doing is the changing of the behaviours and life style. He really stopped hanging old with the drinking buddies who didnt care about what he was doing and started making new friends, started admitting and talking to people and started trying new things to fill up his time he used to fill with drinking. Can i trust and believe this time? Do I put myself out there? Do I try to start to believe him?
So glad for you
Eileen
Cougee said this so well...
"YOu can take the alcohol away, and it can be hunky dory for a while, but there are usually underlying problems behind abusive personalities, and it can be a ticking timebomb left untreated."
I will pray for you and your family, that this will work out.....
You had said, that hearing that he admitted to the abuse, made you feel not crazy, and that it really happened, is huge... For him to admitt, is a big step... I was in the same relationship, and still after 15 yrs, have never heard those words... Although many were witness, it was like they just put it out of their mind... It would be a great feeling if I was to hear that from my sons father, the guilt still lies on me....
Stay strong, and do not let your guard down just yet....
You will never walk alone..
Peace
And Thank you guys, this is what exactly what I was asking for... reassurance that me not..letting that guard down, was ok to do. I know what I feel, and know in my heart and mind.. to not do that yet. I just dont know when to give and not give.... u know?
And Trust me... u guys.. my kids are the upmost importance here.. They will NEVER be a witness to their father treating me like that again. I am breaking the cycle that my parents showed me. He falls off... I am sorry... but we are gone... because it just isnt fair to them to have to watch it again.
Ummm... I would have to say... July 4th.. If you read through my journal, it says what happened that night. But that was more mental and Emotionally, he pushed me out of the way of the doorway.. So I guess its which way u look at things...
I know not to trust him, and seriously i dont know if I ever will... But I feel like everyone around me... in our lives, that dont know the whole story, that dont know, cause I hid it for him, expect me to jump back into this relationship with both feet.. and I just cant do that. That would make me lose everything I have accomplished in this last 10 months...
Is that bad of me? I dont know? But I am not willing to give me up again.
and yes he has said he will go to a counselour
I hope you do break that cycle - how awesome would that be! Maybe I'm reading more into this than is really there, but is this not the first person who has abused you? We teach people how to treat us, I believe. Prayers for you and yours.
Been there done that.
Greg
My journal has alot of this info...
cycles repeat .. because its all we know, its all we come to know. and like I said I dont want my girls growing up like I did.. I dont want them to think its ok.. so last November I said enough is enough.. i grow through alot in my journal with him...I do alot of changing and self growth... and I dont want to lose all of this by letting down those guards... cause I know how easily things can go wrong again.
And thats why it has taken 10 to 11 months... cause through this I realized he couldnt stop for me o the kids anymore.. I couldnt expect that anymore.. He had to do this for him.. for him only because everything else was just smoke... I have heard it all.. heard every excuse in the book, I dont want any hoops, I dont want any tricks...
I ultimatly... Just want him to get better for him first... so he can be the daddy he needs to be for my girls..and he can be the guy I know he could and can be with the alcohol. That is solely up to him.
I have been through the hoop thing time and time again.. I wont do it again... next time I will walk.. and it will be better for all of us..
I just wanted to make sure.. I wasnt being mean by not giving it my all..and being careful and watching my steps..and god..to know I am not crazy.. and being able to see me again ... is such a gift for myself...
Thank u guys for being open and honest with me.
I dont know much about recovery and about what people go through... I am trying to educate myself on it.. I think if u read through my journal u would find out how far I have come in 10 months....
I just thank u guys for any and everything u say . good or bad or ugle, cause it makes me think...
thank u
I really really like that.. thank you..
and its Missy :)
I put Melisa, when I started the journal so it wasnt easy to find :) to certain people (mainly him )
You do have be a little thick skinned on an internet site like this. There's no way you're going to agree with everything everyone says. Good for you for taking what you can use and at least having a listen to it all.
I, too, would like to address the "Is There Hope?" Are you breathing? Then, there is always hope!
What a motto, Coogee, I like that too!