Alcohol Recovery Without 12 Steps Community Group
This group was created to explore various recovery paths for Alcoholism. We generally chose to explore paths outside of the AA model, or ones which incorporate, but are not limited to AA. Anyone wanting to learn and explore how to become free from alcohol addiction are welcome. Our main goal is to support each other with compassion and decency, while remaining open minded...
LornaR
MAY
10
Free Inquiry • April/May 2009 1 Mohr, S — Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
-Steven Mohr
If you have had a serious drinking problem in the United States of America, you might also have had serious troubles connected with that problem. You might have a drunken driving conviction or landed in a hospital or detoxification facility by court order.
If any of these things have happened to you, it is almost certain that you have been introduced to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known simply as AA. If you have been fortunate enough to have avoided jail or hospitals but have, on your own, sought professional help to stop or to moderate your alcohol consumption, the odds are still very, very high that you have been advised to attend meetings of AA.
The program of Alcoholics Anonymous, known as a twelve step program, is the number-one treatment for alcoholism in the United States imposed by the courts and supported by the medical community for the last forty years. Very few health insurance companies will cover alcohol or drug addiction treatment that is not twelve-step based. It would be reasonable to assume therefore, as most people do, that AA is not only a
successful treatment for the alcoholic but is probably the best available today.
Both assumptions are completely unfounded and unsupported by scientific or historical evidence. The truth is that the available evidence strongly suggests that AA treatment provides very little or no long-term help for active alcoholics. Further, there is ample evidence that long-term repeated exposure to this program is actually dangerous to many alcoholics who would fare better if left on their own.
This is a truly appalling and frightening state of affairs for millions of alcoholics and their loved ones. It means that the medical profession and the court system in the United States are each year directing thousands of sick people into a program that has little or no merit as a treatment for their illness. It also implies that few serious alternatives such as medical and psychiatric treatments are routinely brought to the attention of the troubled alcoholic.
What is Alcoholics Anonymous? Who are its adherents? What are its methods? How has AA become so deeply entrenched in public—and professional—thinking vis-à-vis the treatment of alcoholism? If it doesn’t work, as I have suggested, why not? What in the world could actually make it dangerous? Is there medical, therapeutic, or psychological treatment involved? Is it based on religious beliefs? Is it a religious cult?
Alcoholics Anonymous claims to be: “. . . a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. . . . Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety” (A Brief Guide to Alcoholics Anonymous,1972).
These words sound positive and hopeful, but they do not describe the true workings or intent of AA. To be plain, there is ample evidence that AA is in reality a religious cult masquerading as a self-help group. Its adherents actively indoctrinate newcomers to their way of thinking using overt and subtle misinformation, intimidation, and false promises. They routinely prey on a population subset of sick people at their weakest, namely desperate alcoholics. Through ancillary groups like Al-Anon and Alateen, AA also attempts tobring the families of alcoholics into their cult. Unless AA offers something tangible, verifiable, and repeatedly helpful to these people, it is not just deceitful but dangerous.
This might sound like an astounding accusation to anyone who has not been maltreated by AA—or studied it carefully. Likewise, you may know seemingly happy recovering alcoholics who swear by the allegedly benign and benevolent nature of the AA program. You may be one yourself. Those who believe they remain sober solely by strict adherence to the AA program and there are thousands—generally have nothing but praise for the program.
But if thousands have recovered when millions have tried, then the best that can be said is that the success rate is low. The worst that can be said I have already written: for every happily recovering anonymous alcoholic there are hundreds who have found the program at best worthless and at worst a curse or even a death sentence. Ironically, I have often heard it said in AA meetings that to be successful in one’s recovery, one must “. . . step over the bodies.”
10
Free Inquiry • April/May 2009 1 Mohr, S — Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
-Steven Mohr
If you have had a serious drinking problem in the United States of America, you might also have had serious troubles connected with that problem. You might have a drunken driving conviction or landed in a hospital or detoxification facility by court order.
If any of these things have happened to you, it is almost certain that you have been introduced to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known simply as AA. If you have been fortunate enough to have avoided jail or hospitals but have, on your own, sought professional help to stop or to moderate your alcohol consumption, the odds are still very, very high that you have been advised to attend meetings of AA.
The program of Alcoholics Anonymous, known as a twelve step program, is the number-one treatment for alcoholism in the United States imposed by the courts and supported by the medical community for the last forty years. Very few health insurance companies will cover alcohol or drug addiction treatment that is not twelve-step based. It would be reasonable to assume therefore, as most people do, that AA is not only a
successful treatment for the alcoholic but is probably the best available today.
Both assumptions are completely unfounded and unsupported by scientific or historical evidence. The truth is that the available evidence strongly suggests that AA treatment provides very little or no long-term help for active alcoholics. Further, there is ample evidence that long-term repeated exposure to this program is actually dangerous to many alcoholics who would fare better if left on their own.
This is a truly appalling and frightening state of affairs for millions of alcoholics and their loved ones. It means that the medical profession and the court system in the United States are each year directing thousands of sick people into a program that has little or no merit as a treatment for their illness. It also implies that few serious alternatives such as medical and psychiatric treatments are routinely brought to the attention of the troubled alcoholic.
What is Alcoholics Anonymous? Who are its adherents? What are its methods? How has AA become so deeply entrenched in public—and professional—thinking vis-à-vis the treatment of alcoholism? If it doesn’t work, as I have suggested, why not? What in the world could actually make it dangerous? Is there medical, therapeutic, or psychological treatment involved? Is it based on religious beliefs? Is it a religious cult?
Alcoholics Anonymous claims to be: “. . . a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. . . . Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety” (A Brief Guide to Alcoholics Anonymous,1972).
These words sound positive and hopeful, but they do not describe the true workings or intent of AA. To be plain, there is ample evidence that AA is in reality a religious cult masquerading as a self-help group. Its adherents actively indoctrinate newcomers to their way of thinking using overt and subtle misinformation, intimidation, and false promises. They routinely prey on a population subset of sick people at their weakest, namely desperate alcoholics. Through ancillary groups like Al-Anon and Alateen, AA also attempts tobring the families of alcoholics into their cult. Unless AA offers something tangible, verifiable, and repeatedly helpful to these people, it is not just deceitful but dangerous.
This might sound like an astounding accusation to anyone who has not been maltreated by AA—or studied it carefully. Likewise, you may know seemingly happy recovering alcoholics who swear by the allegedly benign and benevolent nature of the AA program. You may be one yourself. Those who believe they remain sober solely by strict adherence to the AA program and there are thousands—generally have nothing but praise for the program.
But if thousands have recovered when millions have tried, then the best that can be said is that the success rate is low. The worst that can be said I have already written: for every happily recovering anonymous alcoholic there are hundreds who have found the program at best worthless and at worst a curse or even a death sentence. Ironically, I have often heard it said in AA meetings that to be successful in one’s recovery, one must “. . . step over the bodies.”
I feel much more sane after leaving AA. I have my own mind back! I have stayed sober so far. People drink again even going to meetings and turning their entire life over to ?
Okay so, I am on a real happy time in life. 21 out of the last 25 years spent sober and learning. Summer is here and it's beautiful. I am finally feeling healed from being in a deluded state for so long due to 100% adherence to AA. It's taken a couple of years. Wow. There was some anger to overcome and some forgiveness to be found but I am far better off. I guess I will have to take my experience strength and hope somewhere else, or not! LOL
Good luck in life you all. Life is for living, whatever that means to me! AA can teach us important things to be sure. That's why I wish it would change and become "a fellowship of men and women who meet regularly together to help each other stay sober" rather than meeting to convince each other they have to adhere to a way of thinking and believing. But if we must throw out the baby with the bath water I guess we must, cause no AA person will hear the other side, not here, not anywhere.
AA is not a religious cult. There is no "indoctrination". I do sympathize with people who don't believe in God only because it would be easier for them, if they did. I hate to see them struggle. I def respect their position. But not believing, shouldn't be a deterrent to attending a 12 Step Program or reading the literature. I have so many friends in and out of the 12 step programs that are agnostic or atheists.
I used to complain about certain things in my church to my mom...she would say, "take what you like and leave the rest behind".
I have never been to an AA meeting but have read "the big book". Why? Because I wanted to learn as much possible from as many programs to develop into my own program. I utilized some of the steps in the beginning and combined them with other programs to develop something that works for me.
Like Freedom4ever wrote "take what you like and leave the rest behind"
I was actually encouraged to get outside help by my sponsor. I needed and NEED AA to help me live succesfully in sobriety. Same way I need meditation, prayer, exercise/ yoga, etc.
I couldnt have ever found any solution to my other issues drunk. So AA was an open door to get me sober, and to get me out of that mindset that sunk deeper into the issues instead of seeking help and ultimately freedom. Today I'm definetly happy joyous and free despite this myriad of other issues I came into the program with. I'm grateful to AA and the women in the program who loved me until I could love others, including myself.
Anyone up for a sub group where we talk about sobriety and not about AA???
Maybe just start some conversations that arent titled "AA." Just a thought.
They don't pretend to be anything other than "don't drink and go to meetings"...I love the simplicity of that...I need that simplicity...once I was sober, all other doors were open...codependency, Children of Alcoholics, childhood abuse, spousal abuse...
I think of AA as the foundation of my healing...my basic structure...my home base. Within a year of being sober, I started reading "Codependency No More" and that helped keep me sober...and of course I continued going to AA while I dealt with other issues...AA, is my foundation and all things healing, are built upon it....I love AA.
Here are the problems with AA 1-It's best case outcome is to be a "recovering" alcoholic "One day at a time" for eternity. If you leave, they promise one of 3 outcomes; Death, Jails, or Institutions. That is a LIE. I am neither in a loony bin, writing this from jail and I am obviously not dead. Shouldn't the goal of "Recovery" be to become RECOVERED? 2-People who make the decision to get well need to be empowered not told that they are "powerless" 3-Religion is fine but it shouldn't be the go to method for recovery. To say that AA isn't religious is ridiculous. Courts all over the country have made binding decisions that they are. How can you turn your Will and your Life over to the care of God (step 3) and not call this religious. I don't care that they say "A God of your understanding" God is still God. 4-God, the Universe or evolution provided us with freewill why would you want to give it away? If it was God who gave it to us, wouldn't he want us to use it? Try SMART Recovery, read some NON AA literature (God forbid useful ideas may have surfaced since Bill Wilson's dogmatic Blue Holy Book) , HAMS, SOS, Rational Recovery, ....
AA does keep people sober by acting like a band-aid. If being in "recovery" for life and spending tens of thousands of hours without the hope of ever being recovered works for you, then you can have it. I believe, however, that the goal should be greater than that and if it is for you, then you need something other than AA
Regards,
Rolf Ankermann
I would just say that its clear you havent *read* the big book. Because if you had you'd see it says that we've "recovered." right there in the foreward, first addition:
"WE, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book. For them, we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication will be necessary. We think this account of our experiences will help everyone to better understand the alcoholic. Many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person. And besides, we are sure that our way of living has its advantages for all."
AA isnt a 'band aid" anymore than running is a "band aid" to cardiovascular health. Is it the only way? Nope! Does it work when we go through all 12 steps, when we apply the principals in all our affairs, its a wonderful way of life.
And as to spending tens of thousands of dollars? Huh? AA is entirely free. We contribute money to the 7th tradition basket if we want to. If we don't, or can't, we don't!
I've gone to literally 100's of meetings and "spent" not a single dollar on AA other than putting a dollar in the basket. I'm my home groups treasurer so I know AA doesnt make/ hoard/ money or take contributions in the way say my synogogue or others churches do.
Its an amazing organization, like it or leave it. Up to you. But don't represent something as fact that isnt true at all.
I can assure that I am not insane, writing this from prison and quite apparently I am not dead. The only other reomote possibility that AA members misleadingly believe is that I must be either 1-secretly drinking or 2-living as a "dry drunk". Neither of those happen to be the case either. In fact, my life these past sober 3 1/2 years have been the most authentic, joyous and satisfying period of my entire life. I'm engaged to the love of my life, I've repaired the damages that I admittedly caused with 2 out of my 3 children to the point that our relationships are stronger and more rewarding than they ever were.
Stickywick, I KNEW you would be the first person to chime in right away because you are the biggest AA apologist I've ever heard. This supposed sub group (alcohol recovery without 12 steps) is really of NO interest to you other than your desire to squash any talk that AA may not be a good fit for a LOT of folks. I know the idea is not to "bash" AA but to offer alternatives. The thing is, that AA was the only game in town for decades, in other the words it was the "paradigm" of recovery because there were NO alternatives. Well in order for a new paradigm to take hold, the old one NEEDS to be debunked. So you say I, and 1000's like me, are entitled to our opinion but you don't really mean it. That's why you lurk on this sub-group to get in you AA defense no faster than the ink has dried on anything remotely critical of the 12 step religion.
There also is a growing movement or line of thought that does not accept the "disease" theory of addiction. For those people, a "fellowship" that thrives on powerlessness and surrender just doesn't cut it.
How can you be "recovered" if you are told that to leave AA means that only 3 possible outcomes are possible; death, institutions or insanity!!!!!!"
Sorry where in the big book does it say that's the outcome if you "leave" AA? I know that's the outcome for me,as an alcoholic, if I drink again. I'm sure of that today as I was before AA. Its why I sought help through AA.
"I can assure that I am not insane, writing this from prison and quite apparently I am not dead. The only other reomote possibility that AA members misleadingly believe is that I must be either 1-secretly drinking or 2-living as a "dry drunk"."
Nope I don't believe that so there is at least one AA member for whom that isnt true. One of my sponsors best friends, who we both know and love, has been sober 32 years. She hasnt gone to an AA meeting in over 10 years. She's moved on and she's sober.
Stickywick, I KNEW you would be the first person to chime in right away because you are the biggest AA apologist I've ever heard. "
Good. I'm glad.
This supposed sub group (alcohol recovery without 12 steps)...."
Yes but the title of this post is....now read carefully...."AA." So I responded.
There also is a growing movement or line of thought that does not accept the "disease" theory of addiction. For those people, a "fellowship" that thrives on powerlessness and surrender just doesn't cut it."
I don't get into the disease or not debate. I know I was a hopeless drunk, and now I'm recovered. I'm so grateful. I found that solution in AA. Its not the only way...and I'm glad it isnt. Its simply the way that worked for me.
Why is that so upsetting to you?
I've not once bashed your way.
AND us EX-AAers SHOULD be able to come on THIS thread to talk about recovering from a brainwashing that left us hopeless. I want to help people deprogram from this abuse you are defending like it's the gospel truth, without investigating. You don't want to debate? Go to AA! What is the people's problem on here? I disgusted every time I check in! Thanks goodness for thefreedomt. Hope you are doing well.