Alcohol Recovery Without 12 Steps Community Group
This group was created to explore various recovery paths for Alcoholism. We generally chose to explore paths outside of the AA model, or ones which incorporate, but are not limited to AA. Anyone wanting to learn and explore how to become free from alcohol addiction are welcome. Our main goal is to support each other with compassion and decency, while remaining open minded...
MAY
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Free Inquiry • April/May 2009 1 Mohr, S — Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
-Steven Mohr
If you have had a serious drinking problem in the United States of America, you might also have had serious troubles connected with that problem. You might have a drunken driving conviction or landed in a hospital or detoxification facility by court order.
If any of these things have happened to you, it is almost certain that you have been introduced to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known simply as AA. If you have been fortunate enough to have avoided jail or hospitals but have, on your own, sought professional help to stop or to moderate your alcohol consumption, the odds are still very, very high that you have been advised to attend meetings of AA.
The program of Alcoholics Anonymous, known as a twelve step program, is the number-one treatment for alcoholism in the United States imposed by the courts and supported by the medical community for the last forty years. Very few health insurance companies will cover alcohol or drug addiction treatment that is not twelve-step based. It would be reasonable to assume therefore, as most people do, that AA is not only a
successful treatment for the alcoholic but is probably the best available today.
Both assumptions are completely unfounded and unsupported by scientific or historical evidence. The truth is that the available evidence strongly suggests that AA treatment provides very little or no long-term help for active alcoholics. Further, there is ample evidence that long-term repeated exposure to this program is actually dangerous to many alcoholics who would fare better if left on their own.
This is a truly appalling and frightening state of affairs for millions of alcoholics and their loved ones. It means that the medical profession and the court system in the United States are each year directing thousands of sick people into a program that has little or no merit as a treatment for their illness. It also implies that few serious alternatives such as medical and psychiatric treatments are routinely brought to the attention of the troubled alcoholic.
What is Alcoholics Anonymous? Who are its adherents? What are its methods? How has AA become so deeply entrenched in public—and professional—thinking vis-à-vis the treatment of alcoholism? If it doesn’t work, as I have suggested, why not? What in the world could actually make it dangerous? Is there medical, therapeutic, or psychological treatment involved? Is it based on religious beliefs? Is it a religious cult?
Alcoholics Anonymous claims to be: “. . . a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. . . . Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety” (A Brief Guide to Alcoholics Anonymous,1972).
These words sound positive and hopeful, but they do not describe the true workings or intent of AA. To be plain, there is ample evidence that AA is in reality a religious cult masquerading as a self-help group. Its adherents actively indoctrinate newcomers to their way of thinking using overt and subtle misinformation, intimidation, and false promises. They routinely prey on a population subset of sick people at their weakest, namely desperate alcoholics. Through ancillary groups like Al-Anon and Alateen, AA also attempts tobring the families of alcoholics into their cult. Unless AA offers something tangible, verifiable, and repeatedly helpful to these people, it is not just deceitful but dangerous.
This might sound like an astounding accusation to anyone who has not been maltreated by AA—or studied it carefully. Likewise, you may know seemingly happy recovering alcoholics who swear by the allegedly benign and benevolent nature of the AA program. You may be one yourself. Those who believe they remain sober solely by strict adherence to the AA program and there are thousands—generally have nothing but praise for the program.
But if thousands have recovered when millions have tried, then the best that can be said is that the success rate is low. The worst that can be said I have already written: for every happily recovering anonymous alcoholic there are hundreds who have found the program at best worthless and at worst a curse or even a death sentence. Ironically, I have often heard it said in AA meetings that to be successful in one’s recovery, one must “. . . step over the bodies.”
10
Free Inquiry • April/May 2009 1 Mohr, S — Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
Exposing the Myth of Alcoholics Anonymous
-Steven Mohr
If you have had a serious drinking problem in the United States of America, you might also have had serious troubles connected with that problem. You might have a drunken driving conviction or landed in a hospital or detoxification facility by court order.
If any of these things have happened to you, it is almost certain that you have been introduced to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known simply as AA. If you have been fortunate enough to have avoided jail or hospitals but have, on your own, sought professional help to stop or to moderate your alcohol consumption, the odds are still very, very high that you have been advised to attend meetings of AA.
The program of Alcoholics Anonymous, known as a twelve step program, is the number-one treatment for alcoholism in the United States imposed by the courts and supported by the medical community for the last forty years. Very few health insurance companies will cover alcohol or drug addiction treatment that is not twelve-step based. It would be reasonable to assume therefore, as most people do, that AA is not only a
successful treatment for the alcoholic but is probably the best available today.
Both assumptions are completely unfounded and unsupported by scientific or historical evidence. The truth is that the available evidence strongly suggests that AA treatment provides very little or no long-term help for active alcoholics. Further, there is ample evidence that long-term repeated exposure to this program is actually dangerous to many alcoholics who would fare better if left on their own.
This is a truly appalling and frightening state of affairs for millions of alcoholics and their loved ones. It means that the medical profession and the court system in the United States are each year directing thousands of sick people into a program that has little or no merit as a treatment for their illness. It also implies that few serious alternatives such as medical and psychiatric treatments are routinely brought to the attention of the troubled alcoholic.
What is Alcoholics Anonymous? Who are its adherents? What are its methods? How has AA become so deeply entrenched in public—and professional—thinking vis-à-vis the treatment of alcoholism? If it doesn’t work, as I have suggested, why not? What in the world could actually make it dangerous? Is there medical, therapeutic, or psychological treatment involved? Is it based on religious beliefs? Is it a religious cult?
Alcoholics Anonymous claims to be: “. . . a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. . . . Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety” (A Brief Guide to Alcoholics Anonymous,1972).
These words sound positive and hopeful, but they do not describe the true workings or intent of AA. To be plain, there is ample evidence that AA is in reality a religious cult masquerading as a self-help group. Its adherents actively indoctrinate newcomers to their way of thinking using overt and subtle misinformation, intimidation, and false promises. They routinely prey on a population subset of sick people at their weakest, namely desperate alcoholics. Through ancillary groups like Al-Anon and Alateen, AA also attempts tobring the families of alcoholics into their cult. Unless AA offers something tangible, verifiable, and repeatedly helpful to these people, it is not just deceitful but dangerous.
This might sound like an astounding accusation to anyone who has not been maltreated by AA—or studied it carefully. Likewise, you may know seemingly happy recovering alcoholics who swear by the allegedly benign and benevolent nature of the AA program. You may be one yourself. Those who believe they remain sober solely by strict adherence to the AA program and there are thousands—generally have nothing but praise for the program.
But if thousands have recovered when millions have tried, then the best that can be said is that the success rate is low. The worst that can be said I have already written: for every happily recovering anonymous alcoholic there are hundreds who have found the program at best worthless and at worst a curse or even a death sentence. Ironically, I have often heard it said in AA meetings that to be successful in one’s recovery, one must “. . . step over the bodies.”
If you are new or having thoughts about drinking, I highly recommend looking into everything. AA is around. You need to stay sober. It takes a LONG time to regain control of your health. Let it happen, do what it takes. Go to AA if that is what your choice is. Most people there have no idea they are in a cult. They can be helpful. Take what you need and move on with life. It has a lot more to offer you than booze and exbooze. Alcoholics tend to drink again. It is not the end of the world. Get back on the horse and ride it out.
Get interested in life. It's interesting being sober.
I look at my alcoholism like an allergy. It makes me sick when I drink, so I don't. I don't dwell on it. It is not a defect of my character. I don't need god to over come it. I don't need to practice being a perfect person. I don't need to help anyone. I just need to stay sober and if I were to drink again, I'm sure it would make me mentally ill, and set me back a ways. But in the meantime, I have become free to be me. People regularly go back to drinking whether in 12 step groups or not. To dwell on ones disease is a waste of life, so much so that some end it, some 'go back out', and some go in and out.
I wish you the best of luck. When I tried to talk to my AA groups about this, they disowned me. It took a couple of years to get over, but I've had a deeper awakening, and now I really feel free. Just want to share that with you. I felt crazy and sick the whole time I was in 12 step, sober or not.
Peace for the planet. Hopefully one day recovering people will do a lot more than just be recovering people.
The first thing one is asked when initiated into AA is to keep an open mind. I agree wholeheartedly. If you are currently trying to remain sober through AA or are of the opinion that it is a good and necessary support program for alcoholics, I urge you to keep an open mind to the premises already mentioned and the following substantiated facts. They may save your life or that of someone you know. At the very least, this knowledge may save you a lot of time and let you find real help sooner.
AA has helped me a great deal and for that I'm so grateful. I'm not in a "religious cult" -- nor am I in a "self help group."
Again, you are so very welcome to any opinion you'd like to express but I wonder why you have to bash AA? I've not seen many, if any, AA folks here bashing rational recovery, or rehabs, or phsychiatric help, or budhism's ideals, etc etc.
I'm wondering what your motives are? Mine are to stay sober, and help any other alcholic to recover. Doesnt need to be through AA......or my way. I'm just here to pass on what's working for me in hopes it might touch someone else. That's what I found here.
What are you here to pass on?
A.A. has a dismal rate of failure. Even by its own estimates, A.A. only claims a 5% success rate, and even that might be generous. That rate is defined as meaning that of every 100 people that come through the door only 5 will still be in the group and sober a year later.
Of course, not all of those who leave the program necessarily return to drinking. Many people who come to A.A. and leave ultimately go on to healthy, happy and productive sober lives WITHOUT the coercive and intrusive A.A. program.
The fact is, the secret to quitting drinking is to simply STOP DRINKING ... to not pick up that first one. That, and the "One Day at a Time" message are the only two things worth taking note of in the entire A.A. program. The Big Book, the Steps, Sponsorship ... all of that can be thrown away. It is worse than useless ... it is harmful.
That's a quote from someone else who I agree with. I can go on. To refrain from other thinking about treatment options for people and pretend that this is our best is not only wrong it's stupid. AAers already took over the alcoholism site here.
I know quite a few AAer's who have decades of sobriety who would probably be dead if it hadn't been for AA. Are they opinionated about the program. Yes, because it saved their lives. I doubt that they would agree with your comment "The Big Book, the Steps, Sponsorship ... all of that can be thrown away. It is worse than useless ... it is harmful." To me that comment is no different than saying that AA is the only way.
As far as recovery rates in AA I know that the majority of the people that I met in AA didn't get or stay sober. I don't know for a Fact but I'm pretty sure that a majority of the people who try other programs don't get sober either. Alcoholism is a killer and from what I've seen most us us don't recover.
Like stickywick mentioned you are entitled to your own opinion but there is no reason to bash any recovery program here. I've been a member of this group for almost 4 years and I can only recall one AAer that came on here bashing other programs and he didn't last long. Back when the group was more active there were quite a few AA members on here who helped me with sound advice and I'm grateful for them. I also learned quite a bit from AA that I still use today.
You told stickywick to look up some facts. For your info it's a fact that AA is not funded by insurance. Treatment centers are covered by insurance and many of them focus on AA but not all. I went through rehab and about 80% of the treatment had nothing to do with AA or the 12 steps. In fact it was my counselor who turned me on to alternative treatments. I do realize that at one time the treatment centers did focus on AA. That was the case the first time that I went about 30 years ago but back then AA was about all there was. Things are changing. Maybe not as fast as the should but they are changing.
If you would read the mission statement of this group in the upper right hand corner of the page you would see that the purpose of this group is to be supportive of any path of recovery and that would include AA.
Lorna, I think I can understand being part of a group like AA, discovering it isn't what you thought it was, or isn't what you need, and wanting to push back at it -- "bash " it. And that might be a discussion that we can handle and one where we can all learn. But you are making such blanket statements that just don't make sense to those of us who are part of AA or those of us who aren't but have seen others who benefit from it.
I am sorry you feel disillusioned about a group where you obviously invested a lot of time and effort, but I am very glad you found your path to sobriety.
I would be much more interested in a post from you of what HAS worked for you instead of one that has not. We are here to support, educate and help each other conquer this horrible way of life. Like it or not AA has helped people. I know several who have been sober 20+ years using it. It's not for me or obviously not for you but it is for some therefore I support it .
Bottom line is like our mission statement says and what this group is about is "do what works for you".
Share what works for you and let other people share what works for them.
This is not an AA bash board and please refrain from any further posts of such content.
One of the reasons I never went for myself (only his soberversaries and his first meeting that I dragged him to) was that he and my husband don't think I am an alcoholic. Black outs, not being able to stop once you start....maybe I wasn't as down and out as my kid, but I knew where that elevator was going to.
I also visited alanon...not for me either, so I guess I am not a joiner...but I have read all the books and learned a ton from them...and from other religous philosphies.
There is not only one path to true enlightenment. All of us are on our own journies....
Whatever floats your boat. BUT I will never put down AA....I have a kid alive today as proof it worked for somebody. And don't quote me statistics....
as for 13th steppers...no worse than any bars I visited...or PTA meetings or church meetings for that matter.
Accept it, there are a$$holes everywhere, lets not paint a whole canvas black because of our own idividual opinions. no one makes you go (except some court systems)...
just don't drink. however you do it.