the drunk guy who reeks of booze but has the desire to stop. "each aa group has but one primary purpose; to carry its message to the alcoholic that still suffers

The Newcomer is always the most important person in the room. Tradition #5 & 3.Tom

First up I am not wanting to cause an argument here what I am trying to do create real thought about the program and the traditions not create controversy. If anyone has really strong opinions about this then I do support you to have those opinions I just want to have a look at the question a bit deeper.

Agree that tradition 5 tells me what the primary purpose of the group is ie to carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic but not sure how the group carrying the message makes the newcomer the most important person in the group.

Tradition 3 tell me what I have to do to be a member of AA.

So playing devils advocate and for the exercise not sure these two traditions tell me the newcommer is the most important person??

Other thoughts??

G8

well we can only keep what we have by giving it away so if the old timers were the most important we would have anyone to give it to therefore we would lose it

*would not have anyone........

For the purpose of this experience it I am assuming "it" is my sobriety. Is not remaining in a fit spiritual condition what keeps me sober?

If the oltimer was not there to pass the message there would be no message for the newcommer to hear.

Again I want to emphasise I am playing devils advocate to try and get to a deeper understanding not to belittle anyone's beliefs.

G8

I guess it depends on what perspective you are answering this question from.......I shall do it from a personal perspective....

As a relative newcomer to the rooms of AA the most important people to me are those that give me strength and hope that I do not have to be the disastrous drunk I was being. It is the people that tell me how it is, that get me thinking and that help me daily. It is the 'chair' that shares their experience and the people that share back. It can be everyone in the AA room. And now, it is my sponsor too for I know she has the keys to getting what I hear so much about.

Its the selfishness within that keeps me thinking that its all about me and therefore, I am the most important person in the room. If we keep that bullshit attitude, God help AA.........I have to remember that I am my only problem.

And just a side bar to this discussion? Take a peek at the top of page 20 and see what it says... "Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs".

Again playing the devils advocate:

If I am still in that selfishness state does that not mean that I am in as much need of help as the newcommer??

constant thought of others - IMHO others does not equal newcommer can also mean the oldtimer who is struggling and needs help.

Again I emphaise I am wanting to look at this question really deeply I do not mean to offend but to just question to get to a deeper understanding.

Tradition 5 says "...to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."

The alcoholic who "still suffers" is not always the newcomer. There are plenty of "real alcoholics" as described on page 24, who never have heard the full-measures message message because so many good-old-timers were holding back on the spiritual solution to keep from chasing away the newcomer.
Is it any wonder that 19 out of 20 fail to stay sober?

Good sponsors care about peoples feelings

The best sponsors care about peoples life

Sometimes the good is the enemy of the best

nods to onein twentys response. we are equally impotant to god none is better than the other to god.

If all we have is "One Day At A Time", and that ~is~ truly all we have.. and we say "if you woke before I did, then you've been sober longer than I have", then on each waking day, we are all newcomers.
Newcomers to each and every day.

And this does not mean that we are to be self centred in the old selfish way, but rather "Self" centred, as in... Spirit.

No one is dismissed as more or less important than.
All need each other equally.

Wendy

If AA is going to meetings, going thru and experiencing the 12 steps as they are done in the Big Book and working with others taking them through the steps, where are you in AA?

i was always told who ever got up the earlies is the longest sober is not true.

Whoa! What happened to attraction rather than promotion? This "most important person in the room" line is one of those thoughtless AA clichés that seem to persist despite the absurdities and contradictions they convey. The great relief I found in the rooms was that I was NOT the fallen hero in the last act of a three-hankie cosmic tragedy, that my acute self-consciousness and exaggerated sense of self-importance were the root of a problem that I would eventually get over, and that I didn't have to be the apple of anyone's eye in order to grasp this thing.

A few years ago my home group adopted a Welcome Wagon approach, showering each newcomer with pre-selected books and pamphlets, as well as passing a printed form around the room for us regulars to write down our phone numbers. Not one person who was greeted in this manner ever came back a second time, and as soon as our old laissez-faire informality returned, we at once started to attract a lot of new members who've stuck around.